• Forum restore complete (see latest announcement thread)

TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

Brave Janissary

Well-known member
Messages
331
Reactions
5 672
oyjwg4h.png
 

Osman

Committed member
Messages
277
Reactions
6 530
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
He said this. Nothing about sea targets

''TAYFUN füzemizin son testini Rize'den gerçekleştirdik. Önceden Sinop'tan atıyorduk ama artık bu menzil, Sinop'tan atıldığında ülkemizin sınırları dışına çıkıyor. TAYFUN, 4-5 metre sapma değeri ile hedefleri cerrahi hassasiyetle vurabiliyor''

We carried out the last test of our TAYFUN missile from Rize. Previously, we were firing from Sinop, but now this range goes beyond the borders of our country when fired from Sinop. "TAYFUN can hit targets with surgical precision with a deviation value of 4-5 meters."
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,804
Solutions
2
Reactions
148 26,908
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

Can someone Confirm if Prof.Dr Ismail Demir said this ? Tayfun and Cenk can hit Frigates and Destroyers ?
To make this CEP useful, you need either an accurate update on the vessel's position, speed, predicted meeting point (and active guidance in the terminal phase), or a stationary target in port. Even stationary vessels are not really stationary on the open sea and may have large offsets from the anchorage point (dependent on dynamic positioning capabilities).
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,654
Reactions
15 8,712
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
If you can feed updated position information of the target into the missile like what happens when laserpointing then there is a good degree of likelyhood you can hit a moving target.
 
Last edited:

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,192
Reactions
127 19,052
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
BOZDOĞAN and GÖKDOĞAN Missiles Ready for Acceptance Tests
Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün, President of SSB: "The design verification tests of our Bozdoğan and Gökdoğan missiles have been completed. We will carry out our tests with warhead ammunition and offer them to the use of our Air Forces."

 

Merzifonlu

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
815
Reactions
28 2,496
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

Fuzuli NL

Experienced member
Germany Correspondent
Messages
3,587
Reactions
60 10,080
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,804
Solutions
2
Reactions
148 26,908
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
If you can feed updated position information
That and plotting, estimating and communicating with the missile. All of this has to be done in a short period of time and in combination with active terminal phase guidance. How are you going to communicate with a missile travelling at 5-6+ Machs?
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,654
Reactions
15 8,712
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That and plotting, estimating and communicating with the missile. All of this has to be done in a short period of time and in combination with active terminal phase guidance. How are you going to communicate with a missile travelling at 5-6+ Machs?

Ideally an earth observation satellite, a drone or some kind of radar locates the target and delivers location information to the missile using sat-com or other transmitter. Ideally the information is updated frequently until the missile arrives at the target location. The missile may or may not have enough time to maneuver but it would increase the odds if the missile has multiple warheads.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,804
Solutions
2
Reactions
148 26,908
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Ideally an earth observation satellite, a drone or some kind of radar locates the target and delivers location information to the missile using sat-com or other transmitter. Ideally the information is updated frequently until the missile arrives at the target location. The missile may or may not have enough time to maneuver but it would increase the odds if the missile has multiple warheads.
Too much assumption of ideality makes it quite difficult to work things out in the field. If it were, and ideality solved all the problems, anyone with an observation satellite and a communications satellite could have made such missiles.

First of all, LEO Earth observation satellites have passes (once in 1-2 days) and can be obscured by clouds, so it had better be a radar with a SAR payload and a high amount of them. Then there is the matter of minimum communication latency, i.e. not waiting for the satellite to be in position to communicate with a centre in Anatolia.

Then you have to process the data and make sense of it, check that the target is real and not an ally.

Finally, all of this has to work seamlessly together so that the observation satellite calculates the position correctly, passes it on to the ground station, then it is put into the data link and sent out to the communications satellite and from there to the missile.

Either way, it takes a solid processing and communications capability with a set of satellites to keep an eye on the target for at least minutes without interruption, and to calculate/estimate its trajectory in the background to narrow the window for the missile so that active guidance (RF or IIR or TV or hybrid) can be successful. Most of the problem here is how to get the missile to the terminal phase, where it targets the ship's location and captures in the narrow window of the seeker. A ship travelling at 15 knots will travel about 5 miles either way. And a precise active guidance seems to be a must for a decent PoK.​
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,654
Reactions
15 8,712
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Too much assumption of ideality makes it quite difficult to work things out in the field. If it were, and ideality solved all the problems, anyone with an observation satellite and a communications satellite could have made such missiles.

First of all, LEO Earth observation satellites have passes (once in 1-2 days) and can be obscured by clouds, so it had better be a radar with a SAR payload and a high amount of them. Then there is the matter of minimum communication latency, i.e. not waiting for the satellite to be in position to communicate with a centre in Anatolia.

Then you have to process the data and make sense of it, check that the target is real and not an ally.

Finally, all of this has to work seamlessly together so that the observation satellite calculates the position correctly, passes it on to the ground station, then it is put into the data link and sent out to the communications satellite and from there to the missile.

Either way, it takes a solid processing and communications capability with a set of satellites to keep an eye on the target for at least minutes without interruption, and to calculate/estimate its trajectory in the background to narrow the window for the missile so that active guidance (RF or IIR or TV or hybrid) can be successful. Most of the problem here is how to get the missile to the terminal phase, where it targets the ship's location and captures in the narrow window of the seeker. A ship travelling at 15 knots will travel about 5 miles either way. And a precise active guidance seems to be a must for a decent PoK.​
Still highly possible and this also underlines the importance of having a network of LEO satellites with a rich set of features. Drones can possibly work in the same manner. There is a good likelihood of success when you practice and prepare well.
 

Ravager

Contributor
Messages
1,099
Reactions
4 1,249
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Still highly possible and this also underlines the importance of having a network of LEO satellites with a rich set of features. Drones can possibly work in the same manner. There is a good likelihood of success when you practice and prepare well.

Enlight me a monent here for all the turkish brother . Would such endeavour would consume an immense time and money in which , present a considerable challenges in this current turkish technological envelope and financial constrain ??
In other words... Unrealistic for a present pressing situation ??
Much thanks for the opportunities here ...
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,654
Reactions
15 8,712
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Enlight me a monent here for all the turkish brother . Would such endeavour would consume an immense time and money in which , present a considerable challenges in this current turkish technological envelope and financial constrain ??
In other words... Unrealistic for a present pressing situation ??
Much thanks for the opportunities here ...
Even drones can be used in the same manner with today's capabilities with slightly less accuracy. You remember a drone footage of a Russian ship in the Black Sea taken from 80 km distance. You can use drone based optical and SAR capabilities to locate a target and feed the information to the missile in a continuous manner. The missile then maneuvers slightly towards the calculated location of collision. You can probably do away with maneuvering if the target is moving in a regular pattern. Satellites with multiple payload capabilities can be swarmed at low altitude. It will probably take several more years to establish such a network but certainly doable. If you have a clue why this should not work please share your insight.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom