TR Defence Exports & Updates

Sanchez · Mar 23, 2024

More details about Otokar's 4x4 bid to Romania.

Max weight of the vehicle will be no more than 10.400kg(at least for some variants or all) and 278 vehicles are to be delivered within 1 year after contract signed.

Very competitive tender, no wonder why no one else but Otokar made a bid. Cobra II also falls to the heavy side, so we may see Urals and even Cobra Is being part of the package.

It would be very interesting if they revived the old AM General Cobra design from 10+ years ago.

OPTIMUS · Mar 23, 2024

Kitra said:
First, VAT is payed by the costumer, second, VAT is not payed for exported products (EU is a single market), third, VAT is deductible (if you buy something with VAT, then you reduce your own VAT so you can have zero VAT). Forth, certain products are excempt from VAT.

VAT is NOT a tax on your net or gross sale. Exporting companies like Baykar/Otokar does not pay VAT. On the contrary, they get back VAT money for things they purchased in the country with VAT. This how it works in EU, Turkey and probably every single country.

Also, i run my own comapany in Sweden so i have a decent understanding on how these things work.

As you said, VAT is paid by the customer,because he bought the goods from a distributor, who in turn bought from the manufacturer. But has the goods with/for you more cost than dealers. That's why it's called VAT. It's as simple as that. More importantly, in Romania and Bulgaria, when you say "without tax" when doing business, it is very likely that it means crooked business. Again, as I said, companies or manufacturers don't pay VAT, they pay sales tax.

So.... read..., understand..., then write. Greetings to Konya

Sanchez · Mar 26, 2024

Argentina to buy 24 ex Danish F-16MLUs.

Could be a nice customer for Özgür in the future unless US allows the Viper mod.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772697582218662186

Bogeyman · Mar 26, 2024

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772694511669354881

KAPLAN MT Light Tank, developed by FNSS, is on the way to Brazil. KAPLAN MT Tank will be tested by the Brazilian Army.

The FNSS KAPLAN MT Light Tank, developed with national and local resources, was recently exported to Indonesia. FNSS, which realized Turkey's first tank export, aims to achieve new successes in this field. In this context, KAPLAN MT was shipped to Brazil.

According to the information obtained; Customs procedures for the KAPLAN MT Tank, equipped with the Cockerill® 3105 turret, are currently ongoing and it is aimed to arrive in the country between March and April. The tank is expected to participate in the Cavalry Festival, a traditional national ceremony to be held in the city of Tramandaí in May.

Following the ceremony, the vehicle will be sent to the Armored Training Center in Santa Maria for demonstration. Currently in the Brazilian Army inventory; There are 40 Leopard 1A1BE, 220 Leopard 1A5BR and 30 M60A3 main battle tanks.

boredaf · Mar 27, 2024

Bogeyman said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772694511669354881

KAPLAN MT Light Tank, developed by FNSS, is on the way to Brazil. KAPLAN MT Tank will be tested by the Brazilian Army.

The FNSS KAPLAN MT Light Tank, developed with national and local resources, was recently exported to Indonesia. FNSS, which realized Turkey's first tank export, aims to achieve new successes in this field. In this context, KAPLAN MT was shipped to Brazil.

According to the information obtained; Customs procedures for the KAPLAN MT Tank, equipped with the Cockerill® 3105 turret, are currently ongoing and it is aimed to arrive in the country between March and April. The tank is expected to participate in the Cavalry Festival, a traditional national ceremony to be held in the city of Tramandaí in May.

Following the ceremony, the vehicle will be sent to the Armored Training Center in Santa Maria for demonstration. Currently in the Brazilian Army inventory; There are 40 Leopard 1A1BE, 220 Leopard 1A5BR and 30 M60A3 main battle tanks.

We should think about getting Kaplan with Roketsan's MZK turret (and of course other national systems) to compliment Altay if we are not planning on also starting a new light tank project like the US is doing.

Stimpy75 · Mar 27, 2024

did nobody wondered why all the other companies pulled out of the Romanian bid except otokar?
before i start my rant, does anyvody have a knwoledge how high the local precentage of this order is?
my guess very very low:
like you know otokar just makes assemble jobs, that's it
otomotive components/steel for the armoured body and anything else is ordered from abroad and assembled here but in this case the assemble job will be done in Romania.....that's it!
the same for the UAE 8x8 vehicle
and then we have these chill otokar boys who cheer like otokar is the epicenter of innovation and localizationin everything military
f otokar and f koç

2033 · Mar 27, 2024

boredaf said:
We should think about getting Kaplan with Roketsan's MZK turret (and of course other national systems) to compliment Altay if we are not planning on also starting a new light tank project like the US is doing.

Is only the Kaplan's turret and engine foreign?

In fact, if we could solve the turret and engine problem, we could have a huge tank market.

boredaf · Mar 27, 2024

2033 said:
Is only the Kaplan's turret and engine foreign?

In fact, if we could solve the turret and engine problem, we could have a huge tank market.

Those two are the big ones I think but I might be wrong.

Agha Sher · Mar 27, 2024

Aselflir-500 exported to an unnamed country.

uçuyorum · Mar 27, 2024

boredaf said:
Those two are the big ones I think but I might be wrong.

We have turrets, engine are in progress. If there was a will one could make a really nice medium tank with MZK.

Bogeyman · Mar 27, 2024

Agha Sher said:
Aselflir-500 exported to an unnamed country.

The price is said to be 1 million dollars.

Tornadoss · Mar 27, 2024

Stimpy75 said:
did nobody wondered why all the other companies pulled out of the Romanian bid except otokar?
before i start my rant, does anyvody have a knwoledge how high the local precentage of this order is?
my guess very very low:
like you know otokar just makes assemble jobs, that's it
otomotive components/steel for the armoured body and anything else is ordered from abroad and assembled here but in this case the assemble job will be done in Romania.....that's it!
the same for the UAE 8x8 vehicle
and then we have these chill otokar boys who cheer like otokar is the epicenter of innovation and localizationin everything military
f otokar and f koç

it's their business and this sale is not affecting us. why so angry?

boredaf said:
We should think about getting Kaplan with Roketsan's MZK turret (and of course other national systems) to compliment Altay if we are not planning on also starting a new light tank project like the US is doing.

I am not sure the Roketsan turret is modern and modular enough. We need a modular turret like Cockerill 3000 series and I think roketsan and aselsan together can develop something similar.
https://defense.johncockerill.com/en/weapons-systems/cockerill-3000-series/

Sanchez · Mar 27, 2024

Stimpy75 said:
did nobody wondered why all the other companies pulled out of the Romanian bid except otokar?
before i start my rant, does anyvody have a knwoledge how high the local precentage of this order is?
my guess very very low:
like you know otokar just makes assemble jobs, that's it
otomotive components/steel for the armoured body and anything else is ordered from abroad and assembled here but in this case the assemble job will be done in Romania.....that's it!
the same for the UAE 8x8 vehicle
and then we have these chill otokar boys who cheer like otokar is the epicenter of innovation and localizationin everything military
f otokar and f koç

As the resident Otokar and Koç shill and traitor to the republic, let me chime in.

About 300 of 1000 vehicles will be built directly in Turkey if Otokar wins. For a deal this big, literally every customer on the planet will want some localization. It's the same thing as FNSS building a factory in Saudi to modernize Saudi M113s decades ago or BMC promising to build an assembly line again in Saudi to build Kirpis if it's chosen.

This is literally how this business is done all over the world. How many dollars do you think will enter into Turkish treasury for every TB2 built in Ukraine, Azerbaijan or Saudi Arabia? I expect you to say "f lockheed martin" as well when new F-16 we are to buy are built in Turkey.

Stimpy75 · Mar 27, 2024

.....assembled in Türkiye and the rest assembled in Romania
with all the parts ordered from aboard for the first 300 to be assembled in Türkiye and the rest of the parts ordered from aboard beeing sent to Romania to be assembled there

so Mr chill.....what do you think for example big brand otomotiv producers make money with?
i'll give you the answer right away so you don't loose your chillness
SPAREPARTS
most of our defence companies have these kind of problems but nobody is a p.o.s as otokar
so just let us look what this order will bring us after it's finished?
where will these spare parts be ordered?
from otokar or directly from the producers of the engine/transmission/tires or anything else important?
so have fun chillin for this p.o.s company

Stimpy75 · Mar 27, 2024

my biggest beef with this shit company is that they don't help Turkish subcontractor companies in any shape or form, just order everything from aboard and just do final assembly.....and they are doing this for 50-60 years and even hindering for example other otomotiv companies to be established in Türkiye in the late 60s/early 70s
so like i said f koç and f otokar

Tornadoss · Mar 27, 2024

You are so politically motivated.

Since its establishment, Tofaş has been a key player in the Turkish automotive industry. domesticisation and reduction of foreign dependence is of great importance.
to the development of local suppliers. The Company is committed to the development of local suppliers. to make a contribution to the development of the company, except for the engine and gearbox procure an average of 75% of the parts from domestic suppliers is in the pipeline. Tofaş plans to use domestic direct materials by 2030. aims to increase the supplier ratio to 90%.

Loading…

www.tofas.com.tr

The localisation rate of our heavy commercial vehicles, which we produce with our local gearbox, has approached 90 per cent. As a country, we prioritise the localisation rate in many industries. This truck is truly a work of Turkish engineering and workmanship.

Ford Otosan’dan Üst Düzey Mühendislik Başarısı: “Türkiye’nin İlk ve Tek Yerli Şanzımanı”

Türk otomotiv sanayinin öncü şirketi ve ihracat şampiyonu Ford Otosan, Ecotorq motor ve arka aksın ardından, 58 Milyon Avro yatırım ve 230 mühendisin emekleri ile geliştirilen “Türkiye’nin ilk ve tek yerli şanzımanını” Eskişehir Fabrikası’nda tanıttı. Tasarımından test süreçlerine kadar tamamen...

www.fordotosan.com.tr

ARMA II, whose indigenisation rate has been increased, plays an important role in reducing our country's foreign dependence in land systems. ARMA II features a suspension system and transfer box designed and manufactured by Otokar with its own resources, while national design and domestic production subsystems, including the cooling package, are preferred.
ARMA II is offered to users with two different engine options, one of which is domestic.

8x8 Tekerlekli Zırhlı Araç | Otokar

8x8 taktik tekerlekli zırhlı araçları, Otokar'ın dünya çapındaki lojistik desteği ile de en zor zamanlarda bile daima Silahlı Kuvvetlerimizin yanında.

defense.otokar.com.tr

Quasar · Mar 27, 2024

Turkey is preparing to become the largest artillery shell exporter of the USA.

BLOOMBERG

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772982280459342020

boredaf · Mar 27, 2024

Stimpy75 said:
with all the parts ordered from aboard

Do you have a source for that?

boredaf · Mar 27, 2024

Quasar said:
Turkey is preparing to become the largest artillery shell exporter of the USA.

BLOOMBERG

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772982280459342020

Well, article says one thing then claims another. It talks about US buying explosives for 155mm shell production. Also mentions artillery production lines sold by Repkon and a deal they made with Arca Defence to buy 116,000 rounds from them, which I don't remember seeing mentioned before.

Bloomberg: Türkiye, ABD'ye en çok top mermisi satan ülke olmaya hazırlanıyor

ABD, top mermisi üretimini arttırmak amacıyla Türkiye'den patlayıcı madde alımını arttırmak için görüşmeler yürütüyor.

gdh.digital

Here is an English link about the same story:

MSN

www.msn.com

Stimpy75 · Mar 27, 2024

just look at the most expensive parts of any otokar product, military or civilian
do your own research
google amca or yandex aga will help you

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