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Would it be safe to say currently Pakistan claims 5 - 6 (depending on whether a heron is included) shootdowns (whether by IAD or CAP). ....and we have at least 3 - 4 objective wreckage sites on Indian side....with one very likely a Rafale. The rest we will have to wait for more details and...

There is apparently a very large drone attack (harops and maybe other kind of loitering drones) going on right now in a number of Pakistani towns and cities. We will see what this all is later.

Its somewhere earlier in thread.... there was mirage 2000 looking cone one and there was at least one more with russian ejection seat (so mig or suk) and i think one more russian ejection seat one that was different too....but not 100% sure. Maybe another member can post these.

Bro please accept the crashfootages objectively at least: 2 in kashmir and the 1 in Bathinda. The last one has clear m88 engine and other confirmation posted earlier: A senior French intelligence official has confirmed to CNN that one Indian Air Force Rafale fighter jet was shot down by...

He is serving a short thread ban till he gets those flags changed....and also for spamming things like "8 fighter planes down" that even Pakistan doesn't claim. Members are again advised to FOLLOW THE RULES.

You are simply focusing on the material losses as be all end all, rather than what happened on the ground and what Pakistan perceives that (and how is it to respond to it)....w.r.t what changed this time and why. It is why I keep bringing up the larger air campaigns vs one-offs. There have been...

Yup its all about force level 1 vs force level 2...both size and sharpness of each...and is it something sustained or is it one-off (or start and stops etc) These influence everything results wise. Each context is different.

There are gaps in everything to exploit. It depends how long a conflict goes on.

One must also study very closely the level of force level the US (SEAD and DEAD) used against Iraqi IAD network in GW1. Then what had changed at that point from the strategies used in rolling thunder and linebacker. These are air campaigns of far higher intensity and scale (and considerable...

(Indian perspective of course):

"Ill prepared" is the wrong terminology. To use SCALP and HAMMER needs the Rafale....i.e a stand off conflict tier was picked. The Mirage 2000 does not come into play as adequate with its munition profile for this. The point is a higher conflict tier without SEAD/DEAD was not picked (by...

guys, stay on topic, no ad-hominem (and quoting it). Take up deleted posts in feedback/suggestion area.

Oscar is close to a 10/10 on many matters at hand (when I rarely mark folks above 5/10 to begin with)....so yes this is useful to compare/contrast with what I posted....I am not surprised one bit at his wording and analysis. The IAF basically operating in a "timid tier" that it is not designed...

I'll give my thoughts (deeper ones as to Indian decision making and its severe problems) later on after dust settles more and things are calmer. As there could be Pakistan retaliations and then any other escalation ladders that has to be waited out first anyway. Plus Indian ecosystem...

Heck, ill just post my take I gave (in a DM) here openly:

@Sanchez as well, good job. Balanced objective analysis. Thank you. It is lacking in so many other "fora".

Later (more time) I will sift through and remove derailments/trolling (members can also do their due diligence in interim and just delete/edit before I get to it). For time being for objective analysis I would give very high marks to @Afif ....it has been dispassionate one and pretty much...

At this point all both sides have confirmed are the missile strikes on targets in Pakistan and artillery barrages that have commenced on LoC.