TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Combat-Master]

120 mm Tank Rounds

 

[Siper>MMU]

120 mm Tank Rounds
View attachment 35138

658mm of RHA penetration is pretty neat for MKE. Comparable to DM53
What's the high pressure rounds purpose?

 

[TheInsider]

High-pressure round=more pressure inside the barrel=more speed=more kinetic energy.

 

[Combat-Master]

658mm of RHA penetration is pretty neat for MKE. Comparable to DM53
What's the high pressure rounds purpose?

Apparently a high pressure test round, probably to test newly forged cannons.

Tanklar yerli mühimmat ile vuracak

MKEK tarafından geliştirilen 120 mm HE-T tank topu mühimmatının üretilen ilk kafilesi Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri'ne teslim edildi.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Ardabas34]

ABD'nin Ankara'ya yaptırım sinyali Türkiye-Güney Kore planlarını bozdu

Bir süredir gündemde olan ve Güney Kore iş birliği ile yapılacak Türk yapımı tank ile ilgili dikkat çekici bir gelişme yaşandı.

www.sozcu.com.tr

"US sanctions signal to Ankara disrupts Turkey-South Korea plans"

 

[TheInsider]

ABD'nin Ankara'ya yaptırım sinyali Türkiye-Güney Kore planlarını bozdu

Bir süredir gündemde olan ve Güney Kore iş birliği ile yapılacak Türk yapımı tank ile ilgili dikkat çekici bir gelişme yaşandı.

www.sozcu.com.tr

"US sanctions signal to Ankara disrupts Turkey-South Korea plans"

Bullshit detected. There was no transfer of technology in the first place. The deal was about an interim solution no one delivers their technology for a mere 40-50 powerpacks. And i don't know what technology SK will deliver to us when the Turkish powerpack is in such an advanced development phase.

 

[Ardabas34]

Bullshit detected. There was no transfer of technology in the first place. The deal was about an interim solution no one delivers their technology for a mere 40-50 powerpacks. And i don't know what technology SK will deliver to us when the Turkish powerpack is in such an advanced development phase.

Well I dont know about that. Lets hope yoi are right.

Here is the Defense News article:

Altay power pack talks between Turkey, SKorea changes to off-the-shelf supply

A procurement official confirmed the off-the-shelf approach but voiced concern about a potential political intervention blocking the deal.

www.defensenews.com

 

[TheInsider]

By Burak Ege Bekdil

 

[Ardabas34]

By Burak Ege Bekdil

Who is that?
Does he have a reputation for sth?

Oh I remember a "bokdil" being talked in this forum, is this him?

Anyway, there is also a defense news link I shared above however.

Though I didnt look into that. Perhaps it is a bit different.

 

[TheInsider]

Defensenews news is also written by Bokdil. They are the same news.

 

[Turko]

Credit @AlphaMike

The Koreans show 1500hp engine and transmission.
The domestic Korean power pack at ADEX 2021. The combination of Doosan DV27K engine and SNT EST15K transmission is capable of delivering 1500 horsepower. DV27K has already been used in K2 in the home country, and will be used in K2NO and K2PL.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451169511504289794

 

[Baljak]

Bullshit detected. There was no transfer of technology in the first place. The deal was about an interim solution no one delivers their technology for a mere 40-50 powerpacks. And i don't know what technology SK will deliver to us when the Turkish powerpack is in such an advanced development phase.

It is unlikely that the U.S. has put pressure on Turkey and South Korea's contract to supply Altay tanks this time. Turkey is famous for actively pursuing the introduction of technologies from other countries in areas where development capabilities are insufficient in weapons development projects. (Especially Germany and Europe). In this contract, it is highly likely that Turkey demanded the transfer of technology to Korean engines. However, it is very unlikely that the technology of Korean engines will be transferred to Turkey. In 2014, Turkey attempted to transfer the technology of the 1200 horsepower Mitsubishi engine used in the Japanese type 10 tank, but the negotiations broke down due to Japan's refusal to transfer the technology. In 2016, Turkey wanted to receive engine technology from South Korea, but the deal was not concluded due to South Korea's rejection. Contrary to the Turkishs thoughts, Korea is currently very negative about the transfer of military technology to Turkey. A South Korean general, who was previously involved in Turkey's Altay tank project from 2008 to 2014, received 800 million won(At that time, the exchange rate was USD 720,000) in bribes from a Turkish military broker and leaked the technology of a tank that requires approval from the Korean DAPA (Defense Acquisition Program Administration) to Turkey without permission. After this, There was not a single case in which South Korea transferred military technology to Turkey after the Altay Tank Project. And South Korea became extremely reluctant to transfer military technology to Turkey, and I think this contract for engine supply also showed Korea's sensitive response to the technology leak.

 

[Saithan]

It is unlikely that the U.S. has put pressure on Turkey and South Korea's contract to supply Altay tanks this time. Turkey is famous for actively pursuing the introduction of technologies from other countries in areas where development capabilities are insufficient in weapons development projects. (Especially Germany and Europe). In this contract, it is highly likely that Turkey demanded the transfer of technology to Korean engines. However, it is very unlikely that the technology of Korean engines will be transferred to Turkey. In 2014, Turkey attempted to transfer the technology of the 1200 horsepower Mitsubishi engine used in the Japanese type 10 tank, but the negotiations broke down due to Japan's refusal to transfer the technology. In 2016, Turkey wanted to receive engine technology from South Korea, but the deal was not concluded due to South Korea's rejection. Contrary to the Turkishs thoughts, Korea is currently very negative about the transfer of military technology to Turkey. A South Korean general, who was previously involved in Turkey's Altay tank project from 2008 to 2014, received 800 million won(676,246 USD) in bribes from a Turkish military broker and leaked the technology of a tank that requires approval from the Korean DAPA (Defense Acquisition Program Administration) to Turkey without permission. After this, There was not a single case in which South Korea transferred military technology to Turkey after the Altay Tank Project. And South Korea became extremely reluctant to transfer military technology to Turkey, and I think this contract for engine supply also showed Korea's sensitive response to the technology leak.

Could it be Otokar or BMC that is the broker in question ? It's really stupid to ruin a good relation with bribery.

AKP and RTE affiliated people aren't (IMO) known to conduct themselves properly.

 

[Baljak]

Could it be Otokar or BMC that is the broker in question ? It's really stupid to ruin a good relation with bribery.

AKP and RTE affiliated people aren't (IMO) known to conduct themselves properly.

I have lived in Turkey for 3 years, so I know some about AKP and RTE. There's every possibility. It's my personal guess, but it's possible that it's a military intermediary related to Otokar. It's really sad, but since the unauthorized leak of tank technology in South Korea, this incident has become a big issue in South Korea and has also been the biggest reason why Koreans have antipathy against Turkey. For this reason, some conservative Koreans criticize or speak ill of Turkey and Turks for no reason. And still, most Koreans tend to think very negatively of any military cooperation with Turkey because of this incident in the past. Since then, South Korea has created a stronger legal system to protect military technology, and now it needs more complex processes to transfer military technology abroad.

 

[Saithan]

I have lived in Turkey for 3 years, so I know some about AKP and RTE. There's every possibility. It's my personal guess, but it's possible that it's a military intermediary related to Otokar. It's really sad, but since the unauthorized leak of tank technology in South Korea, this incident has become a big issue in South Korea and has also been the biggest reason why Koreans have antipathy against Turkey. For this reason, some conservative Koreans criticize or speak ill of Turkey and Turks for no reason. And still, most Koreans tend to think very negatively of any military cooperation with Turkey because of this incident in the past. Since then, South Korea has created a stronger legal system to protect military technology, and now it needs more complex processes to transfer military technology abroad.

It is very unfortunate. But I'm glad that SK has tightened up security around military secrets.

It makes me wonder why and what gain Otokar would have from doing such a thing. Could the incident have resulted in Otokar not getting the Altay tender and why it went to BMC. We'll have to check the timeline.

Could you please enlighten us as to the leakage just a general summary if the Tank, if possible ?

 

[Huelague]

I have lived in Turkey for 3 years, so I know some about AKP and RTE. There's every possibility. It's my personal guess, but it's possible that it's a military intermediary related to Otokar. It's really sad, but since the unauthorized leak of tank technology in South Korea, this incident has become a big issue in South Korea and has also been the biggest reason why Koreans have antipathy against Turkey. For this reason, some conservative Koreans criticize or speak ill of Turkey and Turks for no reason. And still, most Koreans tend to think very negatively of any military cooperation with Turkey because of this incident in the past. Since then, South Korea has created a stronger legal system to protect military technology, and now it needs more complex processes to transfer military technology abroad.

First time, we heard about that issue. But one single unworthy behavior should not ruin our long, deep and good relationship.

 

[Huelague]

It is very unfortunate. But I'm glad that SK has tightened up security around military secrets.

It makes me wonder why and what gain Otokar would have from doing such a thing. Could the incident have resulted in Otokar not getting the Altay tender and why it went to BMC. We'll have to check the timeline.

Could you please enlighten us as to the leakage just a general summary if the Tank, if possible ?

Interesting question.

 

[Baljak]

It is very unfortunate. But I'm glad that SK has tightened up security around military secrets.

It makes me wonder why and what gain Otokar would have from doing such a thing. Could the incident have resulted in Otokar not getting the Altay tender and why it went to BMC. We'll have to check the timeline.

Could you please enlighten us as to the leakage just a general summary if the Tank, if possible ?

The person who leaked Korean tank technology was the military attaché of the Korean Embassy in Turkey. (His rank in the military is Brigadier General)

In April 2016, the Korean prosecution checked the suspicious deposit details from the account of a ghost company established under the name of his wife and later investigated the account. After signing a contract for technical support and technology transfer to the development of Altay tanks, a consulting fee of $20,000 per month was received from an unknown Turkish arms broker. He received USD 720,000 from a Turkish broker for 3 years in the name of advisory fees.

And he was found to have used his position to threaten employees of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration to directly help them sign technical support and technology transfer contracts for the development of Altay tanks.

Later, he and an employee of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration were legally punished for leaking military technology to Turkey without permission.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

The person who leaked Korean tank technology was the military attaché of the Korean Embassy in Turkey. (His rank in the military is Brigadier General)

In April 2016, the Korean prosecution checked the suspicious deposit details from the account of a ghost company established under the name of his wife and later investigated the account. After signing a contract for technical support and technology transfer to the development of Altay tanks, a consulting fee of $20,000 per month was received from an unknown Turkish arms broker. He received USD 720,000 from a Turkish broker for 3 years in the name of advisory fees.

And he was found to have used his position to threaten employees of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration to directly help them sign technical support and technology transfer contracts for the development of Altay tanks.

Later, he and an employee of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration were legally punished for leaking military technology to Turkey without permission.

If this issue is real, there is no reason to harbor hostility or ill will towards Turkey and Turkish people on this issue. Everyone demands everything, what matters is the attitude of the person being offered. If the issue is the illegal transfer of sensitive technology, the person whose intentions should be questioned here is the Korean you mentioned and under any circumstances, countries do not classify their trade partners according to the mistakes made by one of their own citizen. If this were the case, no one would trade with Israel, which is notorious for irregularities in tenders, transfer of secret technologies and bribes in tenders but I see that South Korea, which is alleged to have turned against Turkey, does not see any inconvenience in making arms deals with Israel. Even if this issue is real, it is not correct to generalize and create a bad perception of Turkey. I cannot approve of implicitly blaming Turkey for other projects that come up between Turkey and South Korea by putting this issue on the agenda.

 

[Baljak]

If this issue is real, there is no reason to harbor hostility or ill will towards Turkey and Turkish people on this issue. Everyone demands everything, what matters is the attitude of the person being offered. If the issue is the illegal transfer of sensitive technology, the person whose intentions should be questioned here is the Korean you mentioned and under any circumstances, countries do not classify their trade partners according to the mistakes made by one of their own citizen. If this were the case, no one would trade with Israel, which is notorious for irregularities in tenders, transfer of secret technologies and bribes in tenders but I see that South Korea, which is alleged to have turned against Turkey, does not see any inconvenience in making arms deals with Israel. Even if this issue is real, it is not correct to generalize and create a bad perception of Turkey. I cannot approve of implicitly blaming Turkey for other projects that come up between Turkey and South Korea by putting this issue on the agenda.

I agree with your argument. I don't think anyone should criticize or give bad perception to people in a particular country or country for any reason. I don't think this alone should ruin the relationship between the state and the state