Greece Analysis APACHE AP/ SCALP EG/ Storm Shadow/ SCALP Naval/ Black Shaheen

Pantelis

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The APACHE AP and its variants are a series of French-made air-launched cruise missiles. Variants of the missile have been customized and sold to the United Kingdom, Italy, Greece, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. France has also developed and deployed a sea-launched version for use on its naval ship and submarines.

APACHE AP at a Glance​

ORIGINATED FROM France
POSSESSED BY France, United Kingdom, Italy, Greece, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates (UAE)

ALTERNATE NAMES

APACHE AP, SCALP EG, Storm Shadow, SCALP Naval, Black Shaheen

CLASS
Short Range Cruise Missile

BASING
Air-, ship-, sub-launched
LENGTH

5.1 m (5.5 m for SCALP Naval)

DIAMETER0.63 m

LAUNCH WEIGHT

1,300 kg (1,230 kg for APACHE AP)WARHEAD1 X 400 kg HE penetration

PROPULSION Turbojet

RANGE140 – 400 km

STATUS
Operational

IN SERVICE 2004 – Present

SCALP-EG_MBDA.jpg

A SCALP EG equipped to Rafale aircraft

APACHE AP Development​

The APACHE AP is the result of a collaboration between Germany and France in 1983 known as The Arme Propulsée À CHarges Éjectables (APACHE) project. After Germany withdrew from the project in 1988, development of the program was then taken on entirely by MBDA.1

The original APACHE missile, known as the APACHE AP is equipped with 10 KRISS anti-runway submunitions and has a rage of 140 km.2 After dismissing several proposals for potential variants, the French Air Force chose to pursue the Systeme de Croisiere conventionale Autonome a Longue Portee (SCALP EG) version, which was modified from the APACHE to fire HE or penetrating warheads.3 In 1995, BAE (now MBDA) then modified the SCALP EG missile in a bid for the United Kingdom (UK) Ministry of Defense Cruise Missile program, altering the design and naming the missile Storm Shadow. The Storm Shadow is a short range, air-, ship-, or sub- launched missile designed to accurately target high-value fixed assets in extreme conditions.4

After 1996, MBDA announced that the Storm Shadow and SCALP EG would become virtually identical in all ways but their software and aircraft interface components. In that same year, a modification of the Storm Shadow/SCALP EG called the Black Shaheen was developed for the UAE. Alterations to the missile included a decreased range of 290 km and a 500 kg payload to meet Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) restrictions, although some states, such as the U.S., suspect that the range exceeds 300 km.5

In 2002, the French Ministry of Defense contracted MBDA to develop a variant of the SCALP EG capable of being sub- and ship-launched, which was then under-water tested in 2010.6The French Air Force chose the SCALP EG variant of the missile with HE and penetrating warheads to be equipped on their Mirage 2000D and Rafale aircraft. The SCALP EG and Storm Shadow can also be operated by the Tornado and Eurofighter Typhoon.7In 1997, the UK contracted MBDA to build long range Storm Shadow missiles that would become the RAF’s Conventionally Armed Stand-Off Missile (CASOM). 8

In 1999, Italy and the UAE purchased Storm Shadow missiles to arm the Italians’ IDS Tornado and the UAE’s Mirage Fleet. In 2000, Greece awarded a contract to MBDA Systems for Storm Shadows for their Mirage fighters, placing an order for additional missiles in 2003.9

2134.jpg


APACHE AP Specifications​

The APACHE AP is a short-range air-launched cruise missile, and is 5.1 m long and 630 mm wide. The missile has a launch weight of 1,230 kg and a range of 140 km.10 Designed as an anti-runway missile, the APACHE AP is equipped with 560 kg of high explosive KRISS submunitions and is powered by a Microturbo TRI-60-30 engine.11 The APACHE AP is guided by an inertial navigation system and an active radar. Although the missile cruises at an altitude of 150 m, it drops to 50 m during the terminal phase in order to evade enemy defense systems.12

SCALP EG/ Storm Shadow Specifications​

The SCALP EG and Storm Shadow missiles are virtually identical in all aspects except that they are equipped with different aircraft interface components and software. The missiles are 5.1 m in length, have a 630 mm body diameter, weigh 1,300 kg, and have a range between 250-400 km.13. The SCALP EG/Storm Shadow is equipped with a Microturbo TRI-60-30 engine and a 400 kg payload.14 The missiles are intended to have a shelf life of 12 years when they are fully fueled and stored with within sealed canisters.15

The SCALP EG/Storm Shadow is guided by a triple navigation system, using inertial navigation, GPS, and Terrain Reference Navigation.16 These advanced navigation systems, combined with an imaging infrared seeker and automatic target recognition algorithms, allow the missile to effectively hit the targeted impact point in severe conditions.

SCALP Naval Specifications​

SCALP Naval is 5.5 m long with a body diameter of 0.5 m and a launch weight of 1,400 kg.17 Equipped with a Microturbo TR-50 turbojet engine and a new multipurpose 300 kg HE missile, the SCALP Naval is guided with an inertial navigation system and GPS midcourse guidance. The missile can be launched from French ship-based Sylver A70 vertical launch systems, offering a range of 1,400 km, or from standard 533 mm torpedo tubes when submarine-launched, with the potential range of 1,000 km.18

Black Shaheen Specifications​

The Black Shaheen is a version of the SCALP EG/Storm Shadow developed by France for export to the United Arab Emirates, to equip its Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft.19 Modifications to the Black Shaheen, made in compliance with Missile Technology Control Regimes guidelines, allegedly include a decreased range of 290 km and a payload of under 500 kg.20

Service History​

The first test flights of the APACHE AP took place in 1995 and the missile entered service in 2003. In 1997, France ordered 120 of the APACHE AP missiles and 500 of the SCALP EG version. SCALP EG test flights began in 2000 in Cazaux, France, and became operational in 2004.21

The UK is believed to have ordered 900 Storm Shadow missiles in 1997, with the first test flights taking place in 2003 in the U.S. 27 Storm Shadow Missiles were fired in Iraq between March and April, 2003.22

There are no records of SCALP Naval test flights, although they were scheduled to have been conducted in 2010/2011. In 1999, Italy purchased 200 SCALP EG/Storm Shadow missiles, four of which were test fired in 2006 by Italy in South Africa. Greece also order 56 of this version in 2000 and were believed to have received this delivery in 2004.23 Although reports claiming a 2006 Saudi Arabian purchase of 200 SCALP EG/Storm Shadow missiles remains unconfirmed, subsequent reports do confirm the missiles’ initial test flights in 2011.24

In 1997, the UAE order 600 Black Shaheen missiles, which were believed to be delivered in 2003 and operational by 2007.

Altogether, it is believed that over 2,200 APACHE AP, SCALP EG/Storm Shadows, and Black Shaheen missiles have been ordered and at least 1,200 missiles have been delivered by 2006. In 2011, French, Italian, and UK forces fired SCALP EG/Storm Shadow missiles at targets in Libya.25. It is believed that France has fired 15 of these missiles and the UK has fired 60, but the number of missiles Italy has fired remains unknown.
 

Yasar_TR

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What turkey is planning via this drone carrier?

View attachment 29551
By the time this ship (presumably TCG TRAKYA) is operational, few of the TF2000 air defence destroyers, all 6 Reis Class Subs and 4 I-Class frigates and few squadrons of TFX in 4++ generation mode, will be in use. So it will have a very capable defensive posture.
Besides this is not a ship to be used in the Aegean arena. It is for overseas force projection. For the Aegean, it doesn’t need to enter in to range to commit it’s UAV fleet.
For the Aegean arena, mainland Anatolia would be an effective ”Carrier”.
 

Manowar

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It will be very easy for Greece to get Scalps from France
History is full of states that thought they could win wars by relying on weapons they bought from others. We learned this from the Cyprus Peace Operation the bitter way, and that's why we established our national arms industry. Be sure, your French friends will not give you those missiles when you need them most, just as they did to Israel in their time.
 

Ryder

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It will be very easy for Greece to get Scalps from France

Thats stupid thinking to be honest.

Never rely on another country for the defence of your nation and its interests.
 

Pantelis

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History is full of states that thought they could win wars by relying on weapons they bought from others. We learned this from the Cyprus Peace Operation the bitter way, and that's why we established our national arms industry. Be sure, your French friends will not give you those missiles when you need them most, just as they did to Israel in their time.

Greece enjoys the advantages of being European society.
 

Manowar

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Greece enjoys the advantages of being European society.
For Greece, being a member of the European Community has not brought a victory on the battlefield against Turkey in the last century. Forget about making gains from Turkey by taking the European powers behind you. Build your defense industry, strengthen your army with your own weapons, and face us as a respectable opponent. As grandchildren of the glorious Leonidas, it shouldn't be too difficult. Is it?
 

what

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Greece enjoys the advantages of being European society.

What if in a couple of years tides change and France is ruled by social democrats or any other party that is less export friendly when it comes to weapons and oppose selling to conflict zones. Better get them while you can. You never know in politics.

Hypothetical scenario of course, I don't think there will be any armed conflict between both countries in the foreseeable future.
 

Ardabas34

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Greece enjoys the advantages of being European society.
Thats a very retarded thing to say. Did you hang out in r/Europe in reddit a lot?
Nobody cares about such things in foreign policy. Those Europeans were at each others throats 70 years ago. 100 years ago Germany was allied to Turkey against France and Britain.
Even 500 years ago France was allied to Ottomans against Habsburg Europe.
Germany already refused your crybabying for cancelling Turkey to build type 214 submarines under their licence.
Europeans dont recognise their fathers when its about their own national interests. If Turkey just reconciled enough or got a good enough grip of islamic minority in France, France would turn you down when you expected the least.

Though I somewhat agree with the current conjuncture Greece can get away with not having her own defense industry.

Modern Greece(1821-2021) is like a lateral infection of Turkey. When you get AIDS, you dont get killed by the HIV virus, it just destroys your CD4+ T cells. The real problem that hurts the body is the lateral conditions that would normally fail to do any damage due to immune system.
Such as tuberculosis.

Same way you can depict AIDS as the deteriorating relations of Turkey with Europe and the US and the killings of CD4+ T cells as the embargoes on its military. Whenever that happens, Greece as the tuberculosis just emerges and receives military aids for the US and France so that it can bug Turkey but the greatest thing is Turkey is no more as vulnerable to AIDS because it has been taking its meds since 1974 embargo: creating its own defense industry.

Greece just like 100 years ago is again on the lap of its western overlords against the Turks. Though I mind you, the moment those overlords realise you will against just gift them a fiasco, they will abondon you with all the aftermath. Same thing happened 100 years ago. Britain didnt remain to shoot a single bullet after Greek army was defeated. It asked its other colonies across ocean to send soldiers and as they refused, they left. France and Italy were even trading with Turks after they too saw Greek army failing. Your initial allies were literally trading with Turks.

It is so interesting people are so bad at taking lessons from history.
 
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TheInsider

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Yeah sure. Germany and France will send their kids to die for Greece in the war against Türkiye. All you will get is political support and maybe some second-hand military hardware.

As for HAF. Airforce is good when you have strategic depth. %70 of the HAF airbases are 300km away from the Turkish mainland and %100 of the airbases are 500km away. Airforces need hangars, armories, maintenance and refueling operations, airfield strips, radars, and towers. The problem with HAF is, Greece has no strategic depth so it boils down to who has more precise firepower in a possible conflict. Turkish strategy will be destroying the nests rather than the birds. Logistics is the key to victory be it on the ground battles or air battles.
 

Lool

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Greece enjoys the advantages of being European society.
That is why Greece and Turkey will never be able to reconcile at all

Just like Greece and Turkey, Germany and France were once bitter rivals that fought against each other in many wars and spilled the blood from both sides for decades; however, at the end of the day, they did realise each other as equals and respected the rights of both parties.
On the other hand, Greeks never learn from history at all, whether it is due to the fact that the Ottomans whopped the asses of the Byzantines or whatever, you guys failed to recognise that the turks are as equal as you guys. In fact, even to this day, you guys somehow deem yourself superior! Some might ask why? And the answer to that is the stupid answer which you just said..... you have EU political support. However, dear friend, I assure you that the EU never once liked Greece. In fact, most do look at you guys like Trash.
However, according to the EU, even Trash has their own usages. Just like how the rotten West pitted Turkey against Russia, they pitted Greece against Turkey! The EU mainly exists to ensure that France, Germany, Italy, and Spain maintain international hegemony. They dont want any other actors in the game; especially if they are former empires like the Ottomans and the Byzantines.
A quick note, just like during the Ottomans era, during the Byzantine era, the French were viewed as trash and they still detest you for that (just like with the ottomans tbh)
However, while the Turks are learning from the fact that they need to learn that they must protect their lands with their own hands, you guys became stagnant
Mark my words, the more you stay arrogant, the more fragile you guys will be
There will come a day when not only will Turkey gain its Sea borders but also even more like greek island or whatever...... just like what happened with Armenia.... when push comes to shove, the West betrayed the Armenians and the same will happen to Greece
Dont become arrogant from some Rafales, the ones who benefited most wasnt Greece but France as they were able to maintain hundreds of jobs in the defense industry during the pandemic thx to your money
I mean..... who the hell buys 4.5 gen jets when 5th gen jets are in the market? Like your administration is just trying to buy France support no more.
You guys are like buying Samsung S10 when there is Samsung S12 that is being bought by your rivals (metaphor as Iam a Samsung fan tbh.....lool)

When I called Greek trash, I didnt mean it per say, I meant it from the perspective of the West...... I dont wanna offend any1 at all...... just saying so I dont piss anyone off as I respect the greeks just like any other nationality

That is why Akar, Ismail Demir, and even Erdo once said let them buy the Rafales. We dont have a problem with that as it wont change the status quo at all tbh
 

Anmdt

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It will be very easy for Greece to get Scalps from France
It is more wise to use anti-ship missiles against ships, not some ALCM that can be easily countered by point defense and CIWS.
If you are planning to set-up a scenario and discuss it, imo you are at the wrong thread but you will be welcomed to discuss at:
https://defencehub.live/forums/naval-warfare.193/
Start a thread, or ask someone to start it, at least it should be fun to play this cardboard game. ;).
 

Yasar_TR

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It is more wise to use anti-ship missiles against ships, not some ALCM that can be easily countered by point defense and CIWS.
If you are planning to set-up a scenario and discuss it, imo you are at the wrong thread but you will be welcomed to discuss at:
https://defencehub.live/forums/naval-warfare.193/
Start a thread, or ask someone to start it, at least it should be fun to play this cardboard game. ;).
It would be wiser to use anti-ship missiles against ships. But the Storm shadow is a different animal. French don’t use it as an anti ship missile. It is supposed to be stealthy. Expected to be not easily registered by radars. It’s high-high-low flight gives it 300NM (550km) range. (Due to MTCR, Greek missiles may have lower range. But this is not clear). For lower flight profile it’s range is around 300km. At high flight it could be susceptible to detection.
If not modernised since it’s first introduction the tech on this missile is getting a bit old in the teeth and even outdated. (We saw the bad results in Syrian airport and so called chemical factory bombings where one of the scalps just refused to leave a Rafale launcher). The newer -post 2011- version of the scalp naval cruise missile is having serious problems in integrating with newer ship systems.
But; As a missile, Scalp is carefully shaped to reduce its radar cross section, particularly around the engine inlet duct. The onboard radar altimeter is designed to use “low probability of intercept” waveforms and transmission modes to further reduce the risk of detection. But all this was done in late 90s early 2000s. Radars and Aesa technology has come a long way since then.
 
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Ryder

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Greek independance break away from the Ottomans only to be ruled by a German or a Dane.

Not independance more like under new management.

Any body notice this all the Balkan countries that became independant from the Ottomans apart from Serbia and Montenegro were ruled by foreign monarchs who came from Germany or Denmark.
 

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