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Azerbaijan Azerbaijan Defence Forum
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Final warning! Stop feeding into this agenda.
All off topics deleted!
All off topics deleted!
This will be my last message regarding that topic because some things need to be clarified, please do not delete this.
First of all, Aliyev’s remarks are taken out of context. You have to look at what he says before hand. I don’t say this to defend Aliyev btw. On the other hand the pro-government media in Turkey, even some Turkish politicans have propogated this "we took Karabakh" idea.
Secondly, the fact that you don’t see a problem with "we took Karabakh and gave it Azerbaijan", "you couldn’t do anything without us" etc. says alot. But apparently you are offended by Aliyev’s remarks (let’s assume for a moment that Aliyev really meant Turkey, which he didn’t, not least because that is simply illogical).
No one in Azerbaijan says Turkey haven’t helped Azerbaijan, on contrary. But you will agree that there is a big difference between that and "Turkey took Karabakh".
Third, the only ones who are "dissapointed" in all of this are Azerbaijanis, because they see that a certain segment of Turkey (not everyone) sees these relations not as allied relations based on mutual interests, but one where Turkey should be a hegemon and the other side its protectorate. Of course Turkey is the significantly bigger and stronger side here so it can’t be 100% equal, but Azerbaijan is also not Libya, Syria or Somalia. It has an armed forces that is capable of defending the country, I’m not going to list what has been done only the last few years. Especially in context of Armenia, there is no doubt which side is significantly more capable. The notion some have in Turkey that if not Turkey, Armenia would invade Azerbaijan, is extremely absurd, but there is indeed such beliefs. In reality, it is Azerbaijan who entered Armenian territory in 2022 September, occupying strategic heights and an area of more than 200 km2 in 2 days.
You often see this so-called argument in Turkey "why did you wait 30 years", while being completely ignorant of the negotiation process and all the prior events that resulted in 2020 war. It wasn’t some spontaneous decision.
Armenia’s leadership before Pashinyan had pledged to withdraw from 7 districts around former NKAO. Look up "Lavrov plan".
When Pashinyan came to power, he esentially withdrew from the negotiations. This was the catalyst for the war.
I’m not making this up:
tert.am
How to call all this, when Putin talks like this contra insults and myths propagated in Turkey? So, who should feel insulted in all this? How should Azerbaijanis feel when Putin assess the events far more fairly than our Turkish brethern?
“We responded: Listen, Azerbaijan is growing, its economy is advancing, it is an oil producing country, its population is already over 10 million, let’s compare the potential. This compromise should be reached while there is still an opportunity. For our part, we were confident that we would have the respective decisions taken by the UN Security Council, and would guarantee the security of this naturally emerging Lachin Corridor between Armenia and Karabakh, and guarantee the safety of Armenians who live there.
But we were told that they could not do that. So what will you do? We will fight, they said. Well, okay, it all came down to the armed clashes in 2020.”
en.kremlin.ru
First of all, Aliyev’s remarks are taken out of context. You have to look at what he says before hand. I don’t say this to defend Aliyev btw. On the other hand the pro-government media in Turkey, even some Turkish politicans have propogated this "we took Karabakh" idea.
Secondly, the fact that you don’t see a problem with "we took Karabakh and gave it Azerbaijan", "you couldn’t do anything without us" etc. says alot. But apparently you are offended by Aliyev’s remarks (let’s assume for a moment that Aliyev really meant Turkey, which he didn’t, not least because that is simply illogical).
No one in Azerbaijan says Turkey haven’t helped Azerbaijan, on contrary. But you will agree that there is a big difference between that and "Turkey took Karabakh".
Third, the only ones who are "dissapointed" in all of this are Azerbaijanis, because they see that a certain segment of Turkey (not everyone) sees these relations not as allied relations based on mutual interests, but one where Turkey should be a hegemon and the other side its protectorate. Of course Turkey is the significantly bigger and stronger side here so it can’t be 100% equal, but Azerbaijan is also not Libya, Syria or Somalia. It has an armed forces that is capable of defending the country, I’m not going to list what has been done only the last few years. Especially in context of Armenia, there is no doubt which side is significantly more capable. The notion some have in Turkey that if not Turkey, Armenia would invade Azerbaijan, is extremely absurd, but there is indeed such beliefs. In reality, it is Azerbaijan who entered Armenian territory in 2022 September, occupying strategic heights and an area of more than 200 km2 in 2 days.
You often see this so-called argument in Turkey "why did you wait 30 years", while being completely ignorant of the negotiation process and all the prior events that resulted in 2020 war. It wasn’t some spontaneous decision.
Armenia’s leadership before Pashinyan had pledged to withdraw from 7 districts around former NKAO. Look up "Lavrov plan".
When Pashinyan came to power, he esentially withdrew from the negotiations. This was the catalyst for the war.
I’m not making this up:
Serzh Sargsyan’s promises to Azerbaijan ‘halted 2016 Karabakh war,’ says top security official
“The April war ended because of the Armenian side. And those promises implied specific timeframes – which coincided with the summer period that saw ...
How to call all this, when Putin talks like this contra insults and myths propagated in Turkey? So, who should feel insulted in all this? How should Azerbaijanis feel when Putin assess the events far more fairly than our Turkish brethern?
“We responded: Listen, Azerbaijan is growing, its economy is advancing, it is an oil producing country, its population is already over 10 million, let’s compare the potential. This compromise should be reached while there is still an opportunity. For our part, we were confident that we would have the respective decisions taken by the UN Security Council, and would guarantee the security of this naturally emerging Lachin Corridor between Armenia and Karabakh, and guarantee the safety of Armenians who live there.
But we were told that they could not do that. So what will you do? We will fight, they said. Well, okay, it all came down to the armed clashes in 2020.”
Valdai International Discussion Club meeting
Vladimir Putin took part in the plenary session of the 20th anniversary meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club.
en.kremlin.ru
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