China, Indonesia sea dispute hot and getting hotter

[Nilgiri]

China, Indonesia sea dispute hot and getting hotter - Asia Times

JAKARTA - Chinese Coast Guard (CCG) cutter 5204 has become such a familiar sight inside and on the fringes of Indonesia’s 200-nautical-mile Economic

asiatimes.com

China, Indonesia sea dispute hot and getting hotter
Jakarta issues diplomatic protest amid rising signs Beijing seeks to lay nine-dash line claim to parts of the North Natuna Sea

By JOHN MCBETH SEPTEMBER 15, 2020

An Indonesian officer on guard in front of a naval vessel in a file photo. Photo: Twitter


JAKARTA – Chinese Coast Guard (CCG) cutter 5204 has become such a familiar sight inside and on the fringes of Indonesia’s 200-nautical-mile Economic Exclusion Zone (EEZ) that it is now suspected of trying to stake out the limits of Beijing’s nine-dotted line of historically claimed sovereignty over the South China Sea.

The Indonesian government issued a formal protest to Chinese ambassador Xiao Qian over the latest intrusion on September 12, in which the Indonesian Maritime Security Agency (BAKAMLA) said the Chinese used the specific term “nine-dash line” in radio messages with an Indonesian patrol vessel.

While China recognizes Indonesian sovereignty over its northernmost Natuna archipelago, it has always refused to provide the exact coordinates of the nine-dash line, a broad tongue-shaped swathe of the South China Sea extending into the North Natuna Sea.

The latest incident suggests that Jakarta may sooner or later have to confront the fact that China is now seeking to lay down markers in claiming traditional fishing rights inside Indonesian waters in a clear breach of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

“In many locations, the CCG/People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy are trying to normalize the presence of their ships and then eventually move into enforcing their fishing rights and the nine-dash line,” says one naval analyst who requested anonymity.

Although not included among ships listed in the CCG fleet, 5204 is a 2,700-ton Zhaojun-Class cutter which normally plies between the Chinese-occupied Spratly islands and the Vanguard Bank, the westernmost reef of the disputed island group known for its oil and gas reserves.

Last January, it was also one of three Chinese cutters which intruded 100 kilometers into Indonesian waters in a large-scale incursion that caused Indonesia to scramble F-16 jets from Pekanbaru, southern Sumatra, and dispatch eight naval vessels to the scene.

Since then, the cutter is believed to have made several other intrusions after switching off its automatic identification system (AIS) for up to 36 hours as it ventured close to the maritime border, which lies about 70 kilometers south of Vanguard Bank.

The difference this time is it kept its transponder activated, which as the analyst explained, “means they want you to know.” It also took two days to return to international waters after it was intercepted by an Indonesian patrol vessel.

In its most forthright statement so far, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman told reporters at the height of the January stand-off: “Whether the Indonesian side accepts it or not, nothing will change the fact that China has rights and interests over the relevant waters.”


Some regional analysts believe China has stepped up it’s posturing more recently to counter what it sees as US President Donald Trump administration’s aggression, underlined by US naval deployments and hawkish statements from US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

Pompeo told last week’s East Asia Foreign Ministers summit that Beijing had no respect for democracy in the region and called on the region’s nations to fight Chinese domination and cut business ties with Chinese companies with interests in the South China Sea.

Speaking at the same online meeting, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi denied that Beijing claimed all the waters within the nine-dash line as internal and territorial waters, calling it a “deliberate confusion of concepts and a distortion of China’s position.”



But he prefaced his statement by asserting that China has “sufficient historical and legal basis for its sovereignty and sovereign rights over the South China Sea,” claiming that under UNCLOS the “historic rights of countries should be respected.”

Four years ago, in a case brought by the Philippine government, an arbitral tribunal convened under a provision in the UNCLOS ruled that China has no legal basis to claim historic rights within its nine-dash line. Beijing rejected the ruling, which lacked an enforcement mechanism.


One noteworthy development was Wang’s support for “actively advancing” the long-delayed maritime Code of Conduct with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), which aims to prevent armed clashes in the South China Sea.

“China persists in advocating ‘shelving disputes and developing together’ and is willing to pay attention to the energy needs of coastal countries under this framework and seek win-win and multi-win results,” he said.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi used the East Asian conference to warn the US and China, as she has previously, not to involve Indonesia and its Southeast Asian neighbors in their competition in the South China Sea.

Coordinating Minister for Political Legal and Security Affairs Mahfud MD has said Indonesia will never be drawn into negotiations over its sovereign rights to waters north of the Natuna archipelago, which is part of the country’s Riau province.

Indonesian President Joko Widodo aboard a naval vessel in a file photo. Photo: Twitter/Presidential Handout


Marsudi and other senior officials also continue to insist there is no overlapping jurisdictions with China and that Indonesia has never recognized the nine-dash line, which first appeared in a map published by the Republic of China in 1947.


Unlike Malaysia and the Philippines, both claimants to the Spratly islands, Indonesia has taken a robust approach to protecting its maritime boundary with four Navy frigates and two Bakamla and Fisheries Ministry vessels patrolling the country’s northern approaches.

The Pekanbaru-based F-16s now conduct regular patrols over the Natunas. So do Boeing 737 and CN-235 maritime reconnaissance aircraft, flying out of Makassar in South Sulawesi, and a squadron of Israeli-made drones based in West Kalimantan.

@#comcom @Chestnut @Azull @T-123456

 

[Saithan]

China, Indonesia sea dispute hot and getting hotter - Asia Times

JAKARTA - Chinese Coast Guard (CCG) cutter 5204 has become such a familiar sight inside and on the fringes of Indonesia’s 200-nautical-mile Economic

asiatimes.com

China, Indonesia sea dispute hot and getting hotter
Jakarta issues diplomatic protest amid rising signs Beijing seeks to lay nine-dash line claim to parts of the North Natuna Sea

By JOHN MCBETH SEPTEMBER 15, 2020

View attachment 1394
An Indonesian officer on guard in front of a naval vessel in a file photo. Photo: Twitter


JAKARTA – Chinese Coast Guard (CCG) cutter 5204 has become such a familiar sight inside and on the fringes of Indonesia’s 200-nautical-mile Economic Exclusion Zone (EEZ) that it is now suspected of trying to stake out the limits of Beijing’s nine-dotted line of historically claimed sovereignty over the South China Sea.

The Indonesian government issued a formal protest to Chinese ambassador Xiao Qian over the latest intrusion on September 12, in which the Indonesian Maritime Security Agency (BAKAMLA) said the Chinese used the specific term “nine-dash line” in radio messages with an Indonesian patrol vessel.

While China recognizes Indonesian sovereignty over its northernmost Natuna archipelago, it has always refused to provide the exact coordinates of the nine-dash line, a broad tongue-shaped swathe of the South China Sea extending into the North Natuna Sea.

The latest incident suggests that Jakarta may sooner or later have to confront the fact that China is now seeking to lay down markers in claiming traditional fishing rights inside Indonesian waters in a clear breach of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

“In many locations, the CCG/People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy are trying to normalize the presence of their ships and then eventually move into enforcing their fishing rights and the nine-dash line,” says one naval analyst who requested anonymity.

Although not included among ships listed in the CCG fleet, 5204 is a 2,700-ton Zhaojun-Class cutter which normally plies between the Chinese-occupied Spratly islands and the Vanguard Bank, the westernmost reef of the disputed island group known for its oil and gas reserves.

View attachment 1395


Last January, it was also one of three Chinese cutters which intruded 100 kilometers into Indonesian waters in a large-scale incursion that caused Indonesia to scramble F-16 jets from Pekanbaru, southern Sumatra, and dispatch eight naval vessels to the scene.

Since then, the cutter is believed to have made several other intrusions after switching off its automatic identification system (AIS) for up to 36 hours as it ventured close to the maritime border, which lies about 70 kilometers south of Vanguard Bank.

The difference this time is it kept its transponder activated, which as the analyst explained, “means they want you to know.” It also took two days to return to international waters after it was intercepted by an Indonesian patrol vessel.

In its most forthright statement so far, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman told reporters at the height of the January stand-off: “Whether the Indonesian side accepts it or not, nothing will change the fact that China has rights and interests over the relevant waters.”


Some regional analysts believe China has stepped up it’s posturing more recently to counter what it sees as US President Donald Trump administration’s aggression, underlined by US naval deployments and hawkish statements from US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

Pompeo told last week’s East Asia Foreign Ministers summit that Beijing had no respect for democracy in the region and called on the region’s nations to fight Chinese domination and cut business ties with Chinese companies with interests in the South China Sea.

Speaking at the same online meeting, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi denied that Beijing claimed all the waters within the nine-dash line as internal and territorial waters, calling it a “deliberate confusion of concepts and a distortion of China’s position.”



But he prefaced his statement by asserting that China has “sufficient historical and legal basis for its sovereignty and sovereign rights over the South China Sea,” claiming that under UNCLOS the “historic rights of countries should be respected.”

Four years ago, in a case brought by the Philippine government, an arbitral tribunal convened under a provision in the UNCLOS ruled that China has no legal basis to claim historic rights within its nine-dash line. Beijing rejected the ruling, which lacked an enforcement mechanism.


One noteworthy development was Wang’s support for “actively advancing” the long-delayed maritime Code of Conduct with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), which aims to prevent armed clashes in the South China Sea.

“China persists in advocating ‘shelving disputes and developing together’ and is willing to pay attention to the energy needs of coastal countries under this framework and seek win-win and multi-win results,” he said.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi used the East Asian conference to warn the US and China, as she has previously, not to involve Indonesia and its Southeast Asian neighbors in their competition in the South China Sea.

Coordinating Minister for Political Legal and Security Affairs Mahfud MD has said Indonesia will never be drawn into negotiations over its sovereign rights to waters north of the Natuna archipelago, which is part of the country’s Riau province.

View attachment 1396
Indonesian President Joko Widodo aboard a naval vessel in a file photo. Photo: Twitter/Presidential Handout


Marsudi and other senior officials also continue to insist there is no overlapping jurisdictions with China and that Indonesia has never recognized the nine-dash line, which first appeared in a map published by the Republic of China in 1947.


Unlike Malaysia and the Philippines, both claimants to the Spratly islands, Indonesia has taken a robust approach to protecting its maritime boundary with four Navy frigates and two Bakamla and Fisheries Ministry vessels patrolling the country’s northern approaches.

The Pekanbaru-based F-16s now conduct regular patrols over the Natunas. So do Boeing 737 and CN-235 maritime reconnaissance aircraft, flying out of Makassar in South Sulawesi, and a squadron of Israeli-made drones based in West Kalimantan.

@#comcom @Chestnut @Azull @T-123456

I believe I mentioned this quite recently.

Indonesia needs to get their hands on smart buoy system with surveillance and sensors.

Imagine if these buoys could be wired to release sea mines and such.

I’d still prefer light torpedo launchers from seabeds.

 

[Oublious]

The funny part is all of them are buying weapons from China.

 

[Gary]

The funny part is all of them are buying weapons from China.

Not any more. We ditch chinese missile and Electronic s for our 3rd to 6th FAC,

 

[Gary]

Indonesian cancelled it's domesticC-705 programme, instead we build a reverse engineered one called RNO -1ss

While the marines appeared to be dissatisfied with the Chinese 35mm Oerlikon copycat.

Also the type 730 Ciws which were initially to be installed onboard all Parchim ASW corvette appeared to stop in it's track after only installed on board 2 hulls (out of 14)

@Nilgiri @Oublious

 

[Gary]

I believe I mentioned this quite recently.

Indonesia needs to get their hands on smart buoy system with surveillance and sensors.
Imagine if these buoys could be wired to release sea mines and such.

I’d still prefer light torpedo launchers from seabeds.

Our coastal surveillance is one of the best in the region. One of the world's longest Integrated Maritime Surveillance Systems (IMSS). The network covers more than 1,205 kilometres (749 mi) of coastline in the Straits of Malacca and about 1,285 kilometres (798 mi) of coastline in the Sulawesi Sea.[14]

IMSS in Indonesia
With vast territorial waters and complex geography which includes around 17,000 islands, Indonesia has invested considerable resources into growing its coastal surveillance capabilities. Under a 2006 deal with US company Techno-Sciences, it acquired at least 12 surveillance radars worth over $16 million to monitor its southern Makassar Strait. Indonesia has also been advancing indigenous research and development into coastal surveillance systems with the support of the Indonesian Institute of Sciences, as well as state-owned firms including PT Len Industri and PT Dirgantara.

In 2012, the country acquired two coastal radar surveillance systems based on Kelvin Hughes’ solid-state SharpEye radar sensor technology to monitor the waters around Maluku province and the eastern Merauke Regency in the Papua province. The package included the supply of the SBS-800-51 system, S-Band solid-state SharpEye radar transceiver and antenna, as well as the installation of the systems on radar masts.

According to Kelvin Hughes, the SBS radar systems are fully remote-controlled and is designed for continuous operation with high detection accuracy and target discrimination at long range. The company also claims that the systems automatically adapt to changes in the weather and environmental conditions without the need for any operator intervention.

Indonesia has also benefited from international support such as the Integrated Maritime Surveillance System (IMSS), which was funded by the United States (US) Department of Defense (DoD) to the tune of $57 million between 2006 to 2008. Handed over to the Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut, TNI–AL) in October 2011, the IMSS comprises 18 coastal surveillance stations, 11 ship-based radars, two regional command centres and two fleet command centres in Jakarta and Surabaya covering the Malacca Strait, Sulawesi Sea, and Moluccas Strait.

Coastal Watchkeepers - Asian Military Review

With piracy and smuggling joining economic zone intrusion, JR Ng finds unmanned observation systems are coming to the forefront of coastal security.

www.google.com

 

[Saithan]

Our coastal surveillance is one of the best in the region. One of the world's longest Integrated Maritime Surveillance Systems (IMSS). The network covers more than 1,205 kilometres (749 mi) of coastline in the Straits of Malacca and about 1,285 kilometres (798 mi) of coastline in the Sulawesi Sea.[14]

IMSS in Indonesia
With vast territorial waters and complex geography which includes around 17,000 islands, Indonesia has invested considerable resources into growing its coastal surveillance capabilities. Under a 2006 deal with US company Techno-Sciences, it acquired at least 12 surveillance radars worth over $16 million to monitor its southern Makassar Strait. Indonesia has also been advancing indigenous research and development into coastal surveillance systems with the support of the Indonesian Institute of Sciences, as well as state-owned firms including PT Len Industri and PT Dirgantara.

In 2012, the country acquired two coastal radar surveillance systems based on Kelvin Hughes’ solid-state SharpEye radar sensor technology to monitor the waters around Maluku province and the eastern Merauke Regency in the Papua province. The package included the supply of the SBS-800-51 system, S-Band solid-state SharpEye radar transceiver and antenna, as well as the installation of the systems on radar masts.

According to Kelvin Hughes, the SBS radar systems are fully remote-controlled and is designed for continuous operation with high detection accuracy and target discrimination at long range. The company also claims that the systems automatically adapt to changes in the weather and environmental conditions without the need for any operator intervention.

Indonesia has also benefited from international support such as the Integrated Maritime Surveillance System (IMSS), which was funded by the United States (US) Department of Defense (DoD) to the tune of $57 million between 2006 to 2008. Handed over to the Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut, TNI–AL) in October 2011, the IMSS comprises 18 coastal surveillance stations, 11 ship-based radars, two regional command centres and two fleet command centres in Jakarta and Surabaya covering the Malacca Strait, Sulawesi Sea, and Moluccas Strait.

Coastal Watchkeepers - Asian Military Review

With piracy and smuggling joining economic zone intrusion, JR Ng finds unmanned observation systems are coming to the forefront of coastal security.

www.google.com

Very admirable, I have seen the layout of Indonesia on a map, and yeah it's very complicated. Coastline is not the same as EEZ in a troubled region, which is why I imagine a system developed to keep an eye on China is necessary. Especially given their behavior in general.

 

[Azull]

Not any more. We ditch chinese missile and Electronic s for our 3rd to 6th FAC,

Is that true? Cause i believe we still have some chinese made subsystem on some of our FAC.

But if its true, then thank God.

 

[Azull]

Indonesian cancelled it's domesticC-705 programme, instead we build a reverse engineered one called RNO -1ss

While the marines appeared to be dissatisfied with the Chinese 35mm Oerlikon copycat.

Also the type 730 Ciws which were initially to be installed onboard all Parchim ASW corvette appeared to stop in it's track after only installed on board 2 hulls (out of 14)

@Nilgiri @Oublious

Hi bro comcom, do you have any info on PT Tress? It is mentioned on the article that its one of the company to join the consortium alongside PT DI, PT Dahana, and PT Len industry. I cannot seem to find any reliable info about this company.

Is it a new one?

 

[Azull]

Very admirable, I have seen the layout of Indonesia on a map, and yeah it's very complicated. Coastline is not the same as EEZ in a troubled region, which is why I imagine a system developed to keep an eye on China is necessary. Especially given their behavior in general.

Indeed.

China behaviour is quite confusing. They are considered the biggest investor in southeast asia region but at the same time they are having numerous dispute with southeast asian countries.

Its like their economic and their political side of their goverment is not in sync with each other.

 

[Saithan]

Indeed.

China behaviour is quite confusing. They are considered the biggest investor in southeast asia region but at the same time they are having numerous dispute with southeast asian countries.

Its like their economic and their political side of their goverment is not in sync with each other.

I think their behavior makes sense.

They're investing in countries and infrastructure etc., thus I consider that a Troyan horse, while at the same time they're using the Naval vessels to push the boundaries.

So what will these poor southeast asian countries do ? Sacrifice the much needed infrastructure investments to protect their EEZ ?

Besides compared to China that is ruled by Xi and the few, south east asian countries are trying to be democracies, so political infights are destined to happen 100%, and who ever secures China's Wallet get's to promise gold and fortune for votes.

That's why the armies of these countries are important because they're nationalists. Of course there may be corrupt officers too, but you have to root them out.

The best these countries can do is diversify their investors. Make sure you have other nations come and invest.

E.g. Philippines made a deal with Japan on railways in Mindanao as I recall, not with the chinese, so imo that was a smart move.

 

[Azull]

I

I think their behavior makes sense.

They're investing in countries and infrastructure etc., thus I consider that a Troyan horse, while at the same time they're using the Naval vessels to push the boundaries.

So what will these poor southeast asian countries do ? Sacrifice the much needed infrastructure investments to protect their EEZ ?

Besides compared to China that is ruled by Xi and the few, south east asian countries are trying to be democracies, so political infights are destined to happen 100%, and who ever secures China's Wallet get's to promise gold and fortune for votes.

That's why the armies of these countries are important because they're nationalists. Of course there may be corrupt officers too, but you have to root them out.

The best these countries can do is diversify their investors. Make sure you have other nations come and invest.

E.g. Philippines made a deal with Japan on railways in Mindanao as I recall, not with the chinese, so imo that was a smart move.

It makes sense if you put it that way.

As for indonesia. China is one of the biggest foreign investor here at third place. And it will continue to grow its investment portfolio in the country. However with the amount of nationalistic movement in the country, its hard to imagine that indonesian govt would sacrifice the ZEE for the sake of Chinese investment. It would be political suicide by any ruling govt in indonesia. Besides Japan at 2nd place and the US not far below China would be ready to take over anytime chance present itself.

 

[Saithan]

I

It makes sense if you put it that way.

As for indonesia. China is one of the biggest foreign investor here at third place. And it will continue to grow its investment portfolio in the country. However with the amount of nationalistic movement in the country, its hard to imagine that indonesian govt would sacrifice the ZEE for the sake of Chinese investment. It would be political suicide by any ruling govt in indonesia. Besides Japan at 2nd place and the US not far below China would be ready to take over anytime chance present itself.

Nevertheless I think it's important for Indonesia to have permanent surveillance near the outter border of the EEZ.

I think cooperating with Philippines and others on this would be beneficial.

Just imagine, China may be pouring money into the SE Asian countries, but that is nothing compared to the amount of sea trade and potential gas/oil that may lay there.

Finding a cost effective solution for surveillance is paramount for success. Sending CG or Navy out there all the time is quite expensive.

 

[Azull]

Nevertheless I think it's important for Indonesia to have permanent surveillance near the outter border of the EEZ.

I think cooperating with Philippines and others on this would be beneficial.

Just imagine, China may be pouring money into the SE Asian countries, but that is nothing compared to the amount of sea trade and potential gas/oil that may lay there.

Finding a cost effective solution for surveillance is paramount for success. Sending CG or Navy out there all the time is quite expensive.

Agreed on this. We do have cooperation with singapore and malaysia to do joint patrol on the malaccan strait.

And we also have an agreement with the govt of philiphines and malaysia for a joint patrol in the sea area bordering sabah, sulu and celebes.

However i imagine it would be hard to do joint surveilance operation on south china sea as indonesian govt did not view itself as one of the claimant state on the south china sea issue. And indonesian foreign minister itself has mentioned publicly several times that indonesia did not acknowledge that there is any present issue at the north natuna sea. Not to mention current relationship between indonesia and malaysia is also not in good terms lately do to the still unresolved ambalat block issue.

A lot of people doesnt realize that ASEAN is not that united. Even when we are facing potent threat from China, it is still very hard to have one joint statement and resolution to handle the issue.

 

[Saithan]

Agreed on this. We do have cooperation with singapore and malaysia to do joint patrol on the malaccan strait.

And we also have an agreement with the govt of philiphines and malaysia for a joint patrol in the sea area bordering sabah, sulu and celebes.

However i imagine it would be hard to do joint surveilance operation on south china sea as indonesian govt did not view itself as one of the claimant state on the south china sea issue. And indonesian foreign minister itself has mentioned publicly several times that indonesia did not acknowledge that there is any present issue at the north natuna sea. Not to mention current relationship between indonesia and malaysia is also not in good terms lately do to the still unresolved ambalat block issue.

A lot of people doesnt realize that ASEAN is not that united. Even when we are facing potent threat from China, it is still very hard to have one joint statement and resolution to handle the issue.

That's the downside of having so many small islands/islets.

But looking at the map shared by Nilgiri:

The Biggest island in that cluster is quite large and doesn't seem to be inhabited by many people. Wouldn't it be beneficial to turn that Island into a tourist spot in one side and have a military installation with UAV capability as well ?

It is a prime target for chinese armed forces bastion should they need one. I would have looked at getting some investments there very quickly and have it developed.

With Anti ship missiles and big surveillance systems it'd be an awesome island.

 

[Oublious]

I remember China did go to the UAV program, are the chances for Chinese zero?

 

[Anmdt]

That's the downside of having so many small islands/islets.

But looking at the map shared by Nilgiri:
View attachment 1676

The Biggest island in that cluster is quite large and doesn't seem to be inhabited by many people. Wouldn't it be beneficial to turn that Island into a tourist spot in one side and have a military installation with UAV capability as well ?

It is a prime target for Chinese armed forces bastion should they need one. I would have looked at getting some investments there very quickly and have it developed.

With Anti ship missiles and big surveillance systems it'd be an awesome island.

Indonesia and other countries can easily install land based anti-ship missiles in camouflages along with surveillance systems and turn SEA into a hell for PLAN. There are too many tiny islands which is hardly shown on map as just "points" or sometimes not shown.
They probably set lines of defense, bathymetry of the seas around those islands are quite challenging, especially for submarines and low-draft ships/ boats can provide sufficient support along with Manpads.

I remember China did go to the UAV program, are the chances for Chinese zero?

Indonesia has bought several CH-4 as interim solution with smart bombs i presume. Probably the deal was inked in good times. They have their own UAV program now supported by local agencies and foreigner partners for consultancy in design and supply of electronics,combat suites
Supposedly Elang Hitam (Black Eagle) has made or going to make its maiden flight in 2020, will be in service by 2023 which some experts find " very unlikely". However the project can be accelerated and funds might be increased to catch up with schedule.

@#comcom and other indonesian fellas can make a dedicated thread for Elang Hitam.

 

[Azull]

That's the downside of having so many small islands/islets.

But looking at the map shared by Nilgiri:
View attachment 1676

The Biggest island in that cluster is quite large and doesn't seem to be inhabited by many people. Wouldn't it be beneficial to turn that Island into a tourist spot in one side and have a military installation with UAV capability as well ?

It is a prime target for chinese armed forces bastion should they need one. I would have looked at getting some investments there very quickly and have it developed.

With Anti ship missiles and big surveillance systems it'd be an awesome island.

We do have military installation in our part of the island in natuna area.

I believe we have B class air base, a resupply and forward basing naval base. And also district command military base for the army if im not mistaken as it is still within our teritory.

I cannot say the same for malaysian, vietnam, brunei or the philippines side as the spratley chain of island is a highly contested area. The joint comunique within Southeast asean nation is to keep the de facto agreement that they would not build any basing there to avoid conflict and military clash. Before China happened, the clash happened between contesting country there is limited to threat over the radio from their patrol boat by their respective coast guard or naval vessel.

Actually only the philippines have forward basing close to the spratley island. If the former Brp Sierra Madre can be considered as a base. It is actually a grounded LST ship which they use to base their marines.

Amongst all claimant country, only vietnam has land based anti ship missile capability i believe as the philippines plans to acquireland based brahmos has been postponed indefinitely.

 

[Saithan]

We do have military installation in our part of the island in natuna area.

I believe we have B class air base, a resupply and forward basing naval base. And also district command military base for the army if im not mistaken as it is still within our teritory.

I cannot say the same for malaysian, vietnam, brunei or the philippines side as the spratley chain of island is a highly contested area. The joint comunique within Southeast asean nation is to keep the de facto agreement that they would not build any basing there to avoid conflict and military clash. Before China happened, the clash happened between contesting country there is limited to threat over the radio from their patrol boat by their respective coast guard or naval vessel.

Actually only the philippines have forward basing close to the spratley island. If the former Brp Sierra Madre can be considered as a base. It is actually a grounded LST ship which they use to base their marines.

Amongst all claimant country, only vietnam has land based anti ship missile capability i believe as the philippines plans to acquireland based brahmos has been postponed indefinitely.

Yes, but I believe that it is necessary for Philippines to have a base there seeing as they are pretty close and have won an arbitrage against China's claim.

Also I've read recently that the US is going to revive their maintenance harbour in Philippines. They do have some ppl living on some of the islands in the spratleys atm, and I think they've build a smaller establishment.

I do believe that cooperating with Philippines on this would be to the benefit of the smaller nations seeing as you can't push China around and they will not yield their claim. Just look at the base they've made.

I think it's necessary for Philippines to receive some support on establishing a more permanent presence on those islands. Achieving this won't be easy without the help and support of the nations in that area.

 

[Gary]

Is that true? Cause i believe we still have some chinese made subsystem on some of our FAC.

But if its true, then thank God.

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the C-705's are initially to equip the KCR-40 and 60 also in the package is the Chinese fire control radar(TR-47G) and it's CMS

if you see out of the 8 KCR-40 only 2 are properly equipped with missiles and the electronics support.

641	Clurit	PT Palindo, Batam, Indonesia		25-Apr-2011[6]	Clurit or sickle, a curved bladed weapon found commonly in Madura.[7]
2	642	Kujang	PT Palindo, Batam, Indonesia		16-Feb-2012[8]	Kujang, a bladed weapon native to the Sundanese people of Western Java.
3	643	Beladau	PT Palindo, Batam, Indonesia		25-Jan-2013[9]	Beladau or dagger, a common weapon found in the Sumatra region.
4	644	Alamang	PT Palindo, Batam, Indonesia		20-Dec-2013[10]	Alamang, a sword or cutlass used by the Bugis and Makassarese people in the Sulawesi region.
5	645	Surik	PT Citra, Batam, Indonesia		27-Sep-2014[11]	Surik, a traditional sword from Timor.
6	646	Siwar	PT Citra, Batam, Indonesia		27-Sep-2014[11]	Siwar, a traditional knife.
7	647	Parang	PT Citra, Batam, Indonesia		27-Sep-2014[11]	Parang, a long knife typically used as a machete.
8	648	Terapang

to this day only Clurit and Kujang are properly equipped

while the rest looked like this with no military grade radar, some only with .50cal machine guns

ignore the rear missile canister, it's a dummy I believe

I asked @Chestnut once to confirm if the project is dead on water back then which he pretty much agree.

also Mr. AH confirms that the 3rd and so on KCR 60m will be equipped with Terma Electronics and Exocet combo, replacing earlier version with C-705 and TR-47g