TR Defence Exports & Updates

Ripley

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Peru is interested in buying 30 8x8 APCs for a sum of 60 million USD in the first phase of a program aimed at procuring some 178 8x8 and 123 4x4 vehicles. Arma 8x8 was apparently army’s choice beating opponents from Serbia, Poland, China, Canada, Korea and Pars 8x8.

Looks like Otokar made a bid at 63 million, overshooting the 60m threshold but parties are still finalizing the deal.


We should hear about the final decision in the coming weeks or months. I’m loving this year’s Otokar movements so far.
If a Turkish company lose a procurement bid by a measly $3 M, I’d get really pissed off.
 

Azeri441

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Peru is interested in buying 30 8x8 APCs for a sum of 60 million USD in the first phase of a program aimed at procuring some 178 8x8 and 123 4x4 vehicles. Arma 8x8 was apparently army’s choice beating opponents from Serbia, Poland, China, Canada, Korea and Pars 8x8.

Looks like Otokar made a bid at 63 million, overshooting the 60m threshold but parties are still finalizing the deal.


We should hear about the final decision in the coming weeks or months. I’m loving this year’s Otokar movements so far.

Otokar's offer is still probably cheapest, I don't know any other country that can provide a modern 8x8 APC for 2 mil per unit
 

Afif

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Otokar's offer is still probably cheapest, I don't know any other country that can provide a modern 8x8 APC for 2 mil per unit

Lazer-3 in its very basic configuration cost $800000 (domestically) Although this is not amphibious like Arma.
 
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Sanchez

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Chile has also opened a 8x8 tender to replace their aging Mowag Piranhas. 40 vehicles are to be procured for 111.8 million $ in the first batch, part of a bigger 200 vehicle program.

“Several companies, including the United States’ General Dynamics Land Systems, Italy’s IVECO, Finland’s Patria, and Turkey’s Otokar and BMC(first tender experience for Altuğ?), have expressed interest in the potential contract “ Winner is set to be announced in Q1 2024.


High program cost and low number of vehicles. If Turkish entrants can score a win here, it would mark a great shift, signaling they are not just the best in affordability but also in capability.
 

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Chile has also opened a 8x8 tender to replace their aging Mowag Piranhas. 40 vehicles are to be procured for 111.8 million $ in the first batch, part of a bigger 200 vehicle program.

“Several companies, including the United States’ General Dynamics Land Systems, Italy’s IVECO, Finland’s Patria, and Turkey’s Otokar and BMC(first tender experience for Altuğ?), have expressed interest in the potential contract “ Winner is set to be announced in Q1 2024.


High program cost and low number of vehicles. If Turkish entrants can score a win here, it would mark a great shift, signaling they are not just the best in affordability but also in capability.

I am willing to bet it is going to be Otokar.
I mean, for general dynamics or Partia it is very unlikely they will be able to sell their 8x8 product for anything below 4 millions per unit. More or less same is true with IVECO with their SuperAV.
There is a chance for BMC. But they are inexperienced in 8x8.
 

Azeri441

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Lazer-3 in its very basic configuration cost $800000 (domestically) Although this is not amphibious like Arma.

Highly doubt that price is accurate, even a crappy Russian BTR-82A costs 1.5mil +, and Lazar 3 and other modern wheeled APC weigh 10 more tons, 2 mil for a 28 ton modern wheeled APC is an extremely good price point even without a turret.

To put it in comparison, a Stryker APC with .50 cal RCWS costs 4.9 mil USD
 

Afif

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Highly doubt that price is accurate,

It is accurate, I was very surprised but it is accurate. They bought for Serbian police or paramilitary. (Only manufacturing cost, without any profit)
 
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So it becomes 3-4M$ with profit and development cost.

Serbian stuff is cheaper than Turkish systems. Perhaps they don't have the exact same quality but good enough. For example, their Long range 155mm/52cal self propelled howitzer only cost 2-2.2 millions per unit for export. It is very unlikely Lazar-3 is going to cost more than 2 millions. (They unofficially offered it to BA)
 
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Does it have fcs and bms though? Is traverse mechanism of the gun is full electiric or hydrolic or with manual rollers etc ? And is the truck cabins, shell & charge storages are armored ? And how many munitions it can carry ? What is the accuracy, given being a smaller vehicle, it will effect second/third/fourth shot's accuracy and the vehicle's offroad capability.

Not asking these for the sake of shit throwing. Without these, or just some of it, yes i think it could be cheaper in the money talk.
 

Afif

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Does it have fcs and bms though? Is traverse mechanism of the gun is full electiric or hydrolic or with manual rollers etc ? And is the truck cabins, shell & charge storages are armored ? And how many munitions it can carry ? What is the accuracy, given being a smaller vehicle, it will effect second/third/fourth shot's accuracy and the vehicle's offroad capability.

Not asking these for the sake of shit throwing. Without these, or just some of it, yes i think it could be cheaper in the money talk.

Yes, it has fully automatic FCS. The whole system is armoured. It even has certain level of mine resistance. It carries 36 shell in total. (24 in storage)

About accuracy, we can't be sure as it is likely to be classified, but it uses Sigma 30 artillery inertial navigation and pointing systems. Which is the same system used by Archer and Ceaser.
 

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Serbian stuff is cheaper than Turkish systems. Perhaps they don't have the exact same quality but good enough. For example, their Long range 155mm/52cal self propelled howitzer only cost 2-2.2 millions per unit for export. It is very unlikely Lazar-3 is going to cost more than 2 millions. (They unofficially offered it to BA)
My comment was not on their quality. But rather, in addition to production you also have to add a lot of other costs. For high volume production you typically add 3x of production cost. For low volume production, you add a lot more.
 

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Further Cooperation Between ASELSAN And HD Hyundai Heavy Industries
“ The two companies have signed two different international sales contracts over the last few months.”

Probably relates to the recent Korean ship exports to the Philippines and their Aselsan RCWS.
 

Afif

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South Korea has lined up local banks to finance $22 billion worth of arms sales to Poland.


According to Reuters' special news; South Korea, which has reached legal limits on import-export loans, is bringing together local banks to help Poland supply $22 billion worth of weapons. The arms sales in question are a historical record for South Korea.





Note- If Türkiye can arrange even 1/4 of this for countries like BD, our defence cooperation would have expanded exponentially.

Afaik, all BD's purchases from Türkiye to this day (including this one- Thread '$1 Billion Arms Deal Between Bangladesh-Turkey' https://defencehub.live/threads/1-billion-arms-deal-between-bangladesh-turkey.11432/) are with cold cash.
 

what

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Agreed @Afif, what Turkey lacks in the coming stages of our defence export journey are the funds to finance the exports.

I mentioned this before, but good products are only half of the success.
 

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Peru is interested in buying 30 8x8 APCs for a sum of 60 million USD in the first phase of a program aimed at procuring some 178 8x8 and 123 4x4 vehicles. Arma 8x8 was apparently army’s choice beating opponents from Serbia, Poland, China, Canada, Korea and Pars 8x8.

Looks like Otokar made a bid at 63 million, overshooting the 60m threshold but parties are still finalizing the deal.


We should hear about the final decision in the coming weeks or months. I’m loving this year’s Otokar movements so far.
More info came about Peru’s 60 million$ first batch APC program.

“The Purchasing Agency reiterates that the Peruvian Army must reformulate the Technical Study for the purchase of 8x8 armored vehicles

The Armed Forces Procurement Agency (ACFFAA) issued a new report indicating to the Peruvian Army that it must reformulate the Technical Operational Study (ETO) of the 8x8 armored vehicles program due to the incorrect application by the Technical Operational Study Committee (CETO)…

The document, issued last October 31, is forceful and concludes that "in consideration of the irremediable deficiencies, which affect the fundamental principles of public procurement, it is necessary to reformulate the ETO with new rules for the present procurement". Several specialists consulted by defensa.com indicate that if the ETO is not reformulated, it is most likely that the 8x8 Armored Vehicles Acquisition Process would be declared "null" and would be called again in 2024.”

Per the piece, Norinco, Hanwha, FNSS and GDLS were not included in the technical and economic evaluations without any reason stated. Their protests were also left unanswered and GDLS didn’t even get a reply.

“On the other hand, the information confirms that Otokar, with ARMA, obtained the first place in the Order of Preference, with 86.06 points and a proposal valued at US$ 63.32 million, exceeding the referential value of 60 million… The second place, as shown in the attached table, was occupied by Yugoimport SDPR with the LAZAR III with 85.27 points and a proposal for US$ 58.11 million. Hyundai Rotem with the K808, nicknamed White Tiger, scored 54.35 points with a proposal of $77.9 million, while Excalibur Corporation with the Pandur II obtained 45.06 points with a proposal of $105.18 million.

From the analysis of the Evaluation and Qualification Factors established in the "Definitive Rules of the Process" - which, as we reported, should be reasonable and congruent with the purpose of the contract - it is confirmed that the CETO qualified only some of the Minimum Technical Requirements (MTR) and gave a disproportionate score to the technical improvements, in contravention of the regulations in force for State Contracting Processes. Thus, for example, in the Technical Evaluation, Yugoimport SDPR came first with 18.17 points, while Otokar was relegated to second place with 12.7 points, followed by Hyundai Rotem with 5.65 points and Excalibur with 2.43 points.


Surprisingly, in the Operational Evaluation, which was decisive in determining the Order of Preference, Otokar obtained 18 points for including in its proposal, among other factors, a Ballistic and Anti-Mine Protection Level STANAG IV, and accrediting the vehicle's experience in military operations and the number of units, on the same platform, in service in other countries. On the other hand, Yugoimport SDPR obtained only 7.6 points.

This despite the fact that it offered a Ballistic Protection, STANAG Level III as indicated in the RTMs, and duly accredited the Experience in Military Operations and number of units in service, factors that were rated with zero points.”

Interesting tender to say the least. We got some nice figures though. Adding the table from the piece as well.
 

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Afif

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More info came about Peru’s 60 million$ first batch APC program.

“The Purchasing Agency reiterates that the Peruvian Army must reformulate the Technical Study for the purchase of 8x8 armored vehicles

The Armed Forces Procurement Agency (ACFFAA) issued a new report indicating to the Peruvian Army that it must reformulate the Technical Operational Study (ETO) of the 8x8 armored vehicles program due to the incorrect application by the Technical Operational Study Committee (CETO)…

The document, issued last October 31, is forceful and concludes that "in consideration of the irremediable deficiencies, which affect the fundamental principles of public procurement, it is necessary to reformulate the ETO with new rules for the present procurement". Several specialists consulted by defensa.com indicate that if the ETO is not reformulated, it is most likely that the 8x8 Armored Vehicles Acquisition Process would be declared "null" and would be called again in 2024.”

Per the piece, Norinco, Hanwha, FNSS and GDLS were not included in the technical and economic evaluations without any reason stated. Their protests were also left unanswered and GDLS didn’t even get a reply.

“On the other hand, the information confirms that Otokar, with ARMA, obtained the first place in the Order of Preference, with 86.06 points and a proposal valued at US$ 63.32 million, exceeding the referential value of 60 million… The second place, as shown in the attached table, was occupied by Yugoimport SDPR with the LAZAR III with 85.27 points and a proposal for US$ 58.11 million. Hyundai Rotem with the K808, nicknamed White Tiger, scored 54.35 points with a proposal of $77.9 million, while Excalibur Corporation with the Pandur II obtained 45.06 points with a proposal of $105.18 million.

From the analysis of the Evaluation and Qualification Factors established in the "Definitive Rules of the Process" - which, as we reported, should be reasonable and congruent with the purpose of the contract - it is confirmed that the CETO qualified only some of the Minimum Technical Requirements (MTR) and gave a disproportionate score to the technical improvements, in contravention of the regulations in force for State Contracting Processes. Thus, for example, in the Technical Evaluation, Yugoimport SDPR came first with 18.17 points, while Otokar was relegated to second place with 12.7 points, followed by Hyundai Rotem with 5.65 points and Excalibur with 2.43 points.


Surprisingly, in the Operational Evaluation, which was decisive in determining the Order of Preference, Otokar obtained 18 points for including in its proposal, among other factors, a Ballistic and Anti-Mine Protection Level STANAG IV, and accrediting the vehicle's experience in military operations and the number of units, on the same platform, in service in other countries. On the other hand, Yugoimport SDPR obtained only 7.6 points.

This despite the fact that it offered a Ballistic Protection, STANAG Level III as indicated in the RTMs, and duly accredited the Experience in Military Operations and number of units in service, factors that were rated with zero points.”

Interesting tender to say the least. We got some nice figures though. Adding the table from the piece as well.

I mean, if Otokar can sell Arma 8x8 with STANAG IV level protection (both balistic and mine) for $2 millions only, this is more than nice. Actually, this sounds fantastic.

I wonder if you are surprised by how low K808 and Pandur ii scored in the order of preference.
 
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Ripley

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I mean, if Otokar can sell Arma 8x8 with STANAG IV level protection (both balistic and mine) for $2 millions only, this is more than nice. Actually, this sounds fantastic.

I wonder if you are surprised by how low K808 and Pandur ii scored in the order of preference.
As far as I understand from the piece and the small table, technical and operational should be re-evaluated again and this time with correct criteria, so looks like they really messed up.
Apart from technical and operational, the logistical and economical parts are the ones K808 and Pandur II stayed behind it seems, though.
 

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