TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Combat-Master]

 

[Manomed]

Assembly is basically a screw driver job , as we say in india .

We manufacture almost whole of su 30 mki in india from raw material and most components are manufactured in india , yet ut won't prepare us for amca ,as doing something indigenous is totally different .

Assembly can give you experience to manufacture those jet in good number but can't help you to create a rnd base .

You need new gen actuator , mission computer , radar based on GaN , wide band jammers , and all these systems should be based on GaN , then eots , das are a big hurdle .

Let me give you a example , in india , we have our amca program .

Ff was planned for 2023 but was delayed due to project complexity .

As we have seen , you will pass through same phases of development like any other country .

You will see basic tech first like ram coatings , then their advanced variant .

Ew module will be tough job as not only you have to create jammer ,you need to integrate them with digital rwr , decoys , maws ,lwr .
Then you need a huge database and high speed processing power to access and classify threats .

Radar need to have wide band capability so that it can perform shared aperture role somewhat .

We have our basic uttam radar , it's good system , compete well on some tested parameters with elta elm 2052 , but for amca we need a new gen radar with GaN module ,work is being done on that but still it need 3-4 years .


Then comes some tech like body axis cone vivaldi etc , which can't be achieved in this limited time , india took years to develop these building blocks .

We developed a titanium superalloys , some peizeoelectric self healing material , etc for application in amca , these systems make fighter more maintenance friendly ,but research money expenditure is humongous , nobody have any idea except drdo and gov that how much have been spent .

Next come testbed aircraft ,which is generally a passenger plane modified for testing , we acquired it this year only and integration has started ,but i don't think turkey hace been on that stage yet .

So you need lot of time ,money and patience in these projects and delay are quite possible , so over optimistic views need to be calmed down

Didn't you guys had errors etc with those Su-30s Indian engineers aren't that skillful

 

[Lonewolf]

Didn't you guys had errors etc with those Su-30s Indian engineers aren't that skillful

First batch at most , and problem is not engineer , same engineer pool manufacture components for Boeing LM ,etc . It was quality control as company was state owned and due to job security ,some worker turn too much lazy .

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Hurjet against AI TfX MMU

 

[Anmdt]

Ukraine participates in Turkey's next-gen TF-X fighter program

The Ukrainian company FED to supply tens of millions of dollars in components for new helicopters and planes to Turkey learned BulgarianMilitary.com citing Defense Express.

bulgarianmilitary.com

I am happy to be honest, I think We should involve Antonov more in this project.

Wasn't this source somehow what we called as "low-rank". Bulgarianmilitary? They jump from ukraine's tiny supply in multi-bililon project as if a huge one, to the Russian involvement that is not even on the table as of now.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Ukraine participates in Turkey's next-gen TF-X fighter program

The Ukrainian company FED to supply tens of millions of dollars in components for new helicopters and planes to Turkey learned BulgarianMilitary.com citing Defense Express.

bulgarianmilitary.com

I am happy to be honest, I think We should involve Antonov more in this project.

What in your opinion, can Antonov contribute towards TFX?
I am happy that we have involved Ukrainians in our projects. But I would like this to be on a temporary basis, unless it is a partnership involvement.

 

[LegionnairE]

Wasn't this source somehow what we called as "low-rank". Bulgarianmilitary? They jump from ukraine's tiny supply in multi-bililon project as if a huge one, to the Russian involvement that is not even on the table as of now.

They are citing an Ukrainian source which I can not be sure about the validity of. But makes sense, I didn't question it too much.

What in your opinion, can Antonio contribute towards TFX?
I am happy that we have involved Ukrainians in our projects. But I would like this to be on a temporary basis, unless it is a partnership involvement.

Decades of experience? I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't buy the AN-178 to be honest. We don't have any jet cargo planes and it's an affordable option.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Decades of experience? I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't buy the AN-178 to be honest. We don't have any jet cargo planes and it's an affordable option.

Decades OLD Soviets experience more likely.
Tusas has been producing high end plane parts and composite materials for the world’s latest technology planes including F35 , Boeing and Airbus. They have much more to give to Antonov, than to receive, apart from complete large cargo plane design.
But I agree with you on the cargo plane option. Even the West uses Antonov planes for cheap heavy transportation. We could have at least, struck a joint manufacturing deal with them. But it is all to do with priorities and money availability.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Yasar

Making plane parts and making planes are two different things and that's where Antonov's experience could come in handy.

As for boeing and airbus, I'm telling you that I am buying a Fiat Doblo and you're telling me "why don't you buy a Ferrari F8 instead? It's faster"
US won't even sell us F35s and Germany won't sell us MTU diesel engines. A partnership with Boeing or Airbus are out of the options at this time.

We're probably going to sell TF-X to Ukraine too so a partnership deal would make sense.

 

[what]

Not that it adds anything to the discussion but I, for one, enjoy my Ford Fiesta.

 

[Glass🚬]

not sure if this is the thread for it but what is the plan moving ahead with the Turkish logistics fleet, stratotankers are old, transall are old, the c-130 are old, with what will they be replaced?

 

[LegionnairE]

Not that it adds anything to the discussion but I, for one, enjoy my Ford Fiesta.

I've heard that 1.0 Ecoboost is a great engine

not sure if this is the thread for it but what is the plan moving ahead with the Turkish logistics fleet, stratotankers are old, transall are old, the c-130 are old, with what will they be replaced?

C-160s were supposed to be replaced with A-400M but we bought only 10, we need to buy more to replace the mothballed C-130s
Right now CN235s are doing everything. KC-135 fleet is getting old too. As far as I know there are no plans to retire any of these.

Maybe we could joint-develop something with Antonov, A single airframe to replace both KC-135 and C-130

Guys, the current administration in Turkey really destroyed every foreign relationship we had. Pretty much everybody hates us, we really have to take advantage of having good relations with Ukraine. I also think we need to stop this sex tourism nonsense, stop treating Ukraine like a brothel. Show them some respect.

It's very difficult to build new relationships, it's very easy to destroy.

 

[Huelague]

Decades OLD Soviets experience more likely.
Tusas has been producing high end plane parts and composite materials for the world’s latest technology planes including F35 , Boeing and Airbus. They have much more to give to Antonov, than to receive, apart from complete large cargo plane design.
But I agree with you on the cargo plane option. Even the West uses Antonov planes for cheap heavy transportation. We could have at least, struck a joint manufacturing deal with them. But it is all to do with priorities and money availability.

I bet Antonov get some high end western technology too.

 

[Lool]

Guys, the current administration in Turkey really destroyed every foreign relationship we had. Pretty much everybody hates us, we really have to take advantage of having good relations with Ukraine.

The only reason why you are hated by everyone is because you are growing. No western or gulf country wants Ottomans 2.0 since if it did happen, the West and the Gulf will be the first ones to be consumed by Turkey. IMO, the only mistake Turkey made in foreign relations is to support the Muslim Brotherhood even after they fell!

This isnt something related to bad management. Turkey literally destroyed the status quo in Armenia, Libya, Syria, and was actually getting ready to go to War with Greece and the EU knows that if a war did occur, Greece may fall as the EU will give priority to its fake peace rather than fighting.
African countries are liking you guys more than the Western colonising powers like France and you guys are absorbing the military weapons' market from the hands of the French, Italian, and Spanish!
How in the love of God do you not want them to hate you?
You guys are growing and are growing rapidly! In 10 years time you may catch to the West in terms of technology and in Drone Technology, Baykar and TAI are competing for the top position against the US and China. In other words, you already surpassed the West in some fields

 

[Zafer]

The only reason why you are hated by everyone is because you are growing. No western or gulf country wants Ottomans 2.0 since if it did happen, the West and the Gulf will be the first ones to be consumed by Turkey. IMO, the only mistake Turkey made in foreign relations is to support the Muslim Brotherhood even after they fell!

This isnt something related to bad management. Turkey literally destroyed the status quo in Armenia, Libya, Syria, and was actually getting ready to go to War with Greece and the EU knows that if a war did occur, Greece may fall as the EU will give priority to its fake peace rather than fighting.
African countries are liking you guys more than the Western colonising powers like France and you guys are absorbing the military weapons' market from the hands of the French, Italian, and Spanish!
How in the love of God do you not want them to hate you?
You guys are growing and are growing rapidly! In 10 years time you may catch to the West in terms of technology and in Drone Technology, Baykar and TAI are competing for the top position against the US and China. In other words, you already surpassed the West in some fields

We rock!

We are only getting to the position that we deserve as a nation; fitting for our population, our relations and our past.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar

Making plane parts and making planes are two different things and that's where Antonov's experience could come in handy.

As for boeing and airbus, I'm telling you that I am buying a Fiat Doblo and you're telling me "why don't you buy a Ferrari F8 instead? It's faster"
US won't even sell us F35s and Germany won't sell us MTU diesel engines. A partnership with Boeing or Airbus are out of the options at this time.

We're probably going to sell TF-X to Ukraine too so a partnership deal would make sense.

True, making a plane is a different cattle of fish. But Tusas has plenty of experience in making a fighter plane. They have produced hundreds of f16 planes to date for TurAF and Egypt. That is why they are confident in making Hurjet on their own. They have part manufactured Airbus A400.
Your analogy of Ferrari and Doblo are a bit too severe. It has no relevance to what I was trying to get at. You are taking the whole point out of context. I did not say we should be buying Boeing or Airbus.
My point was with respect to TFX and Antonov.
I never said we should not have purchased or even partnered AN178. In fact we should have at least partnered them.
Airbus A400 would actually be the big brother of AN-178 for us. We do need these smaller planes too.
Please do not twist what I write in to something else. I agree with the purchase and partnership with Antonov re: cargo planes.
I stand by my point that they are old school in terms of modern jet craft building.
I agree that they have experience in building complete package of planes that we may utilise.
I also agree that this administration has destroyed all goodwill and good relations we had with western supply bases. I can’t wait for 2023!

 

[Lool]

I also agree that this administration has destroyed all goodwill and good relations we had with western supply bases. I can’t wait for 2023!

For the West to like Turkey as you want it to be, you Turks need to be as docile as Greece; just do your homework, listen to the orders and voila you will get your keep!
The West never treated Turks well. However, Turkey in the past, was technologically inferior; thus, the West co-operated as they saw in you nothing more than a pile of money waiting to be taken. However, when you guys developed your own means to pursue your own interests (just like with China) the West started showing their true colours.
I Still dont understand why you guys still believe that the relations with the West was so amicable and good that it is now ruined. There was no relationship in the first place; it was all give and take. Now that there is not "take" for them, they show their true faces

 

[LegionnairE]

How in the love of God do you not want them to hate you?

Because I want relationships that can benefit Turkey and I am not looking at it ideologically. Trade we have with Europe dwarfs Africa and the gulf and the potential is much greater. Friendship with poor insignificant countries isn't a priority for me. (no offense to Albania)

For a growing economy it is important to have markets. You can make a fighter better than F22 but if everybody hates you, nobody will buy it. Do you understand?

Yes, backing the muslim brotherhood was an autistic move. Egypt spends billions of dollars buying equipment from France, we could have sold them Milgem, tanks, drones, so much money could be made if we weren't so dumb.

@Yasar

I didn't mean any offense brother.

Glad we can agree. Cheers!

 

[Glass🚬]

Because I want relationships that can benefit Turkey and I am not looking at it ideologically. Trade we have with Europe dwarfs Africa and the gulf and the potential is much greater. Friendship with poor insignificant countries isn't a priority for me. (no offense to Albania)

For a growing economy it is important to have markets. You can make a fighter better than F22 but if everybody hates you, nobody will buy it. Do you understand?

Europe looks at u ideologically, they never had any good intention towards u and now u want to crawl back and be prone to embargoes? Same with the americans?

Africa and Asia are the new economic giants, the potential of trade with them dwarfs the western market 100x-1000x, europes economies are maxed out and one nation after another gets removed from the top tier rankings, newer technologies are applied in places like SEA because its easier to apply them there then elsewhere, do you understand? Id rather see Turkey organically building stragetic partnership with these "poor insignifcant countries" which will have a much bigger saying then the small, weak and irrelevant states which are the majority for example in the EU.

 

[LegionnairE]

Europe looks at u ideologically, they never had any good intention towards u and now u want to crawl back and be prone to embargoes? Same with the americans?

Africa and Asia are the new economic giants, the potential of trade with them dwarfs the western market 100x-1000x, europes economies are maxed out and one nation after another gets removed from the top tier rankings, newer technologies are applied in places like SEA because its easier to apply them there then elsewhere, do you understand?

We don't have any good relations with any asian countries either

Can't see a single African country where are they ?

Mod Edit: Stay away from personal attacks!