News Hellenic Navy proposes purchase of US frigates

Test7

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As part of the wider defensive and strategic cooperation with the US, the Hellenic Navy has proposed the promotion of a transnational agreement for the purchase of American Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) frigates in order to renew its fleet.

According to exclusive information obtained by Kathimerini, the proposal is fully aligned with the government’s declared strategic goals, while it is also seen positively by the Americans, who want to expand their military-industrial footprint in Greece.

The proposed intergovernmental agreement has as its central proposal a package solution that includes the supply of four MMSC frigates, the upgrade of four MEKO-type frigates, intermediate solution ships and the participation of Greek shipyards in the development of the new American FFG(X) type frigate.

The plan essentially envisions the creation of a naval force by 2030, which if combined with the supply of MH-60R anti-submarine helicopters, will have a mainly American slant.
 

Gary

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are they goin to buy brand new or purchase the retired US ones?? I heard the US will retire 4 LCS.

IMO, it'll be better for Greece to join in the FFG (X)/Constellation Class , it's better armed and it could lower the cost of building the ships if International partners are brought in.

Navy Boss Talks 'Joint Strike Frigate' Concept After Calls To Build Four Frigates A Year

“I have a concept in my head is if we created a Joint Strike Fighter that we could share with NATO allies," he added. "Why can’t we create a Joint Strike Frigate? Why can’t we take that same platform and offer it to our allies and partners around the world?"
 

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High maintenance (Propulsion system, material-hull, sensors) + Expensive-unorthodox construction techniques and materials (Hull, propulsion) + New platform to adapt in terms of sensors,maintenance and training-payload management + Farther from rest of EU / Neighboring countries in terms of compatibility as per logistics.

FDI -Belharra, FREMM,Type 26/31 is much more suitable option in many aspects.
 
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What do you guys think of the MMSC? Overall it is good, kinda like our I-class.

There is one particular item that the MMSC lacks: hull mounted sonar

As you know the LCS (now renamed to MMSC) is designed on US specs for US coast and actually more used as OPV than real frigate while it initially was supposed to replace the Perry class frigates.

Maybe the lack of hull mounted sonar is not such a problem for the US (they chose it this way) but what about Greece who plans to use it in the Agean and Mediterranean?

MMSC is completely useless/defenseless in a contested undersea environment. They plan CAPTAS 4 towed variable depth sonar which is very good when hunting submarines, but these boats are supposed to be multi mission frigates and you do not have laid out the towed sonar and passive array sonar continuously (they are used when specifically searching a submarine: hunting a submarine).

In time they have not laid out the towed sonar the ship is without sonar and practically defenseless against danger from down under, no?
 
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adenl

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Basically yes. But then again, the Aegean sea is not that large and is going to be filled by ships, subs and missiles flying everywhere and nowhere during a shooting war.

With Turkish seaborne, land and air sensors the only way the Greek navy can survive is by hiding behind the islands which then they will be prime targets for subs while not able to hunt for them effectively by not having hull sonars on these MMSC.

If they dare to venture out behind those islands they will be immediately targeted by AShM.
 
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adenl

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And when the Rafales arrive, Turkey should conduct exercises where they simulate a combined ballistic/cruise missile attack on a mock airbase. When the F-35 arrives, Turkey needs to unveil BORA-2. And when the new frigates arrive, unveil SOM-C1/2, supersonic AShM's and BORA-N.
 

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Basically yes. But then again, the Aegean sea is not that large and is going to be filled by ships, subs and missiles flying everywhere and nowhere during a shooting war.

With Turkish seaborne, land and air sensors the only way the Greek navy can survive is by hiding behind the islands which then they will be prime targets for subs while not able to hunt for them effectively by not having hull sonars on these MMSC.

If they dare to venture out behind those islands they will be immediately targeted by AShM.

What you say I can agree for the Aegean, which is mostly shallow and I concur that hull mounted sonar has less effect to none.

But what about Mediterranean? Are Greeks planning to stay out of the Mediterranean?
 
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adenl

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What you say I can agree for the Aegean, which is mostly shallow and I concur that hull mounted sonar has less effect to none.

But what about Mediterranean? Are Greeks planning to stay out of the Mediterranean?
That is what the Atmaca is there for ;)

The only problem is how high the Turks want to go up the escalation ladder. Turkey has only a chance of winning if it goes all out against the Greeks. Render their entire navy and airforce useless and anything less than that will be just a skirmish where the losses will be equal, and could thus be regarded as a defeat for Turkey and a win for Greece.
 

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I lost you, what has Atmaca to do with the hull mounted sonar on MMSC?

You probably mean AKYA torpedo. So Greek motto is we do not need SONAR because Turkey has to go for an all out war. Great planning, what can I say :)
 
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adenl

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I lost you, what has Atmaca to do with the hull mounted sonar on MMSC?

You probably mean AKYA torpedo. So Greek motto is we do not need SONAR because Turkey has to go for an all out war. Great planning, what can I say :)
Well, in the case of a non-conflict, the MMSC would then have to sail slow for the TAS to work and any Turkish sub can outrun it then
 

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What do you guys think of the MMSC? Overall it is good, kinda like our I-class.

There is one particular item that the MMSC lacks: hull mounted sonar

As you know the LCS (now renamed to MMSC) is designed on US specs for US coast and actually more used as OPV than real frigate while it initially was supposed to replace the Perry class frigates.

Maybe the lack of hull mounted sonar is not such a problem for the US (they chose it this way) but what about Greece who plans to use it in the Agean and Mediterranean?

MMSC is completely useless/defenseless in a contested undersea environment. They plan CAPTAS 4 towed variable depth sonar which is very good when hunting submarines, but these boats are supposed to be multi mission frigates and you do not have laid out the towed sonar and passive array sonar continuously (they are used when specifically searching a submarine: hunting a submarine).

In time they have not laid out the towed sonar the ship is without sonar and practically defenseless against danger from down under, no?

Bro, Greeks are seeking an ally with an affordable price. The weapon payload comes second place for them in E.Med and Aegean. They don’t have time to open a tender to choose the best cost effective solution. They purchased Rafales without opening any tender and they are trying same for these ships. They wanted to purchase French warships but Their costs are a bit salty for them. They tried their chance for Israeli corvettes but couldn’t get the result. Now they are trying for US LCS that is the weakest option among others. These are the behaviors of a man who is in panic mode. Besides, I don’t suppose LCS will be convenient to Aegean environment. A warship of the LCS-size without a hull mounted sonar will lost situation awareness under the water. Turkish warships have highly capable domestic sonars and passive/ low frequency active towed sonars for torpedo defense solutions. Turkey has flexibility to develop own specific solutions in acc to changing situations but Greeks don’t have this chance. They will always need allies and their helps in difficult times so I don’t suppose the platform itself will be a problem for Turkish Forces who is developing/producing 3 different Anti-ship missiles, 1 Supersonic anti-ship missiles, 2/3 Air launchable anti-ship missiles and 2 different type torpedos.
 

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You miss the basic point, yes towed sonar can be use but towed sonar is usually used for tracking / hunting submarines. In normal use a ship does not lay out the towed sonar.

In normal use the hull mounted sonar functions all the time. Especially in battle situations who is going to give you time to layout your towed sonar?

Anyway Greeks keep me puzzling, probably the Greek navy did not even plan they are merely reacting to who want to offer Greece what.
 

Cabatli_TR

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You miss the basic point, yes towed sonar can be use but towed sonar is usually used for tracking / hunting submarines. In normal use a ship does not lay out the towed sonar.

In normal use the hull mounted sonar functions all the time. Especially in battle situations who is going to give you time to layout your towed sonar?

Anyway Greeks keep me puzzling, probably the Greek navy did not even plan they are merely reacting to who want to offer Greece what.


If they had a serious procurement plan, they wouldn't request second hand toys from France and US. They are just seeking a solution to feel better. If there wasn't a union Greece joined in, They wouldn't dare any of these provocative actions so their bullying and hate speeches are like a hot air in my ears. :)
 

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first they were buying Australian Adelaide-class '' Oliver Hazard Perry'' frigates then French FREMM and then French Belhara and then Israeli corvets ''Themistocles'' and now
 

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The problem with the purchase of weapons systems is political and not so much economic. Is it possible that like Greece we want to give 3 billion for Belhara and get stuck in the cheapest Freedom frigates? The problem is geopolitical, for example the problem with Belhara is that the MBDA as the company that owns the copyright of the weapons systems on these French frigates with stakeholders in the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Germany and France does not give Scalp Naval. Greece does not want to take a ship without having a strategic weapon system. Everyone knows that Great Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain have huge economic interests with Turkey. So they are not going to give us such a weapon system and we as Greece are not willing to give so much money without having what is required, namely the Scalp Naval. The choices we have do not cover us if and where we have to end up otherwise I see Oruc Reis doing illegal research activities again.
 

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New render for Hellenic Navy MMSC.

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weird they opt for MK110/57mm Bofors instead of traditional 76mm Oto Breda found on most their ships.
 

Hexciter

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New render for Hellenic Navy MMSC.

EuZpfNHWgAUXVQQ

EuZpiZRXAAIxpwo
EuZpjSlXAAEw2L3
EuZpj0xXMAIKQxz




weird they opt for MK110/57mm Bofors instead of traditional 76mm Oto Breda found on most their ships.
US Navy opted for 57 mm Bofors guns instead of 76 mm. In the future all new will have 57 mm.
 

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