Historical population and it's impact on global events.

Kaptaan

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I am intrigued at population and it's impact on global events - particularly if we accept the idea that all things considered equal population is the most valuable resource of a country. From that pool countries draw their economic, military, scientific talent.

Today we often associate high populations with the global south and draw correlation with poverty and under development. We also often marvel at the how small Western countries took over huge swathes of the globe. This is without a doubt a remarkable achievement by such tiny countries as Britain but we often make a mistake. During the colonial period Europes population exploded and relative to rest of the worl was massive.

The Native Americans literally were outbred by Europeans who swamped North, Central, South America with their excess babies. People of British origin along with Germans, Latvians, Poles, Russians, Swedes, Spanish, French etc swarmed the Americas. Today there are more people of British and Irish origin living across the continents then are found in their native lands.

As a interesting referance in 1849 the British took over region coterminous to Pakistan. Using today as frame of referance this seems remarkable given Pakistan is significantly more populaous then Britain. But in 1849 Britains population was about 27 million. There are no exact figures for coterminous Pakistan from 1849 but using crude calculations the figure might have been as low as 8 million to possibly 10 million and even this was disjointed and spread out over huge geography. When these figures are taken into account things don't look as remarkable. Throw in superior weapons and political unity defeating large parts of the global south which was heavily fractured was not entirely unexpectd.

I read in source I can't now find that Latvian and Swedish females were bearing on average 8 to 9 kids back in 1880s. Today that number is below replacement levels. List below is interesting.

in the 19th Century
(in millions)​




Austria
Britain
France
Germany
Italy
Russia
1800
(10.5)​
27.3​
17.2​
35.5​
1810
(12.0)​
40.7​
1820
21.7​
20.9​
30.5​
22.4​
19.7​
48.6​
1830
24.1​
32.6​
26.6​
21.2​
56.1​
1840
29.5​
26.7​
34.2​
30.4​
22.9​
62.4​
1850
30.7​
27.4​
35.8​
33.4​
24.4​
68.5​
1860
32.6​
28.9​
37.4​
35.6​
25.0​
74.1​
1870
35.7​
31.5​
36.1​
41.1​
26.8​
84.5​
1880
37.9​
34.9​
37.4​
45.2​
28.5​
97.7​
1890
41.3​
37.7​
38.1​
49.4​
117.8​
1900
45.2​
41.5​
38.5​
56.4​
32.5​
132.9​
1910
49.5​
45.2​
39.2​
64.9​
34.7​
160.7​

My point is the massive population explosion in Europe in 1800s drove the major events of that century and would go on to shape the modern world. Even the world wars that followed this period were the collision of the massive forces released by the tidal wave of populations and contest for resources.
 

Jackdaws

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Let's not forget the industrial revolution and the separation of Church and State occurred in this phase too.
 

LegioXLupus

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Let's not forget the industrial revolution and the separation of Church and State occurred in this phase too.

Add all of Europe, some of Asia have formed a national identity.

Those still experimenting with identity, religion and tribalism. Will most probably end up fracturing as population explodes.
 

Kaptaan

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Those still experimenting with identity, religion and tribalism. Will most probably end up fracturing as population explodes.
This is rather reductive. What informs fracturing is complicted with many factors. I don't think the reasons you listed applied to two fantastic examples of 'fracturing' in recent decades. Soviet Union and Yugoslavia are conspicous.
 

HTurk

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Compare these numbers with the respective African figures and you'll see what I want to point out.

This is one of the reasons why the Europeans secretly fear the population boom of the African continent.

As surprising it may sound, the white man was the majority at one brief moment in history. In this short period of time, he built the foundation of his power that is still shaping the global, modern world.

But it is undeniable that Europe and North America are both declining powers. Just 50 years ago, the world literally was owned by them. Today, they're still powerful but others are catching up, competition is challenging and they are forced to give up big chunks of their global share.

All of this coincides with the decline of the global white population. To me, this can't be a coincidence.
 

LegioXLupus

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This is rather reductive. What informs fracturing is complicted with many factors. I don't think the reasons you listed applied to two fantastic examples of 'fracturing' in recent decades. Soviet Union and Yugoslavia are conspicous.

Both under developed federal systems who tried to force multiple ethnic groups to live together. Both experimented with socialism and failed. Now times the population by 10 and imagine the cluster f that waits other states that are still experimenting.

But it is undeniable that Europe and North America are both declining powers. Just 50 years ago, the world literally was owned by them. Today, they're still powerful but others are catching up, competition is challenging and they are forced to give up big chunks of their global share.

Check population of China and Indian subcontinent in 1700 and 1800s vs Europe and Japan. Then check who colonised who. Population didn't save them then, it won't today either.

Rest of the post, you sound like someone from Africa or the sub continent with old grudges.
 

Ryder

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Both under developed federal systems who tried to force multiple ethnic groups to live together. Both experimented with socialism and failed. Now times the population by 10 and imagine the cluster f that waits other states that are still experimenting.



Check population of China and Indian subcontinent in 1700 and 1800s vs Europe and Japan. Then check who colonised who. Population didn't save them then, it won't today either.

Rest of the post, you sound like someone from Africa or the sub continent with old grudges.

Western nation state experiment also failed in the Middle East and Africa.

You cant put many ethnic groups and tribes into one state. There is also the problem of one ethnic group demanding a nation state.

Best example is Nigeria where the Hausa, Igbo and the Yorubas are all competing with other.
 

Kaptaan

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Check population of China and Indian subcontinent in 1700 and 1800s vs Europe and Japan.
It was not Europe that colonised China or Indian subcontinent. It was some European states like Britain, France etc. Your comment is as blunt as saying Turkey colonised Europe. It did not. It colonised Bulgars, Greeks, Serbs etc.

When the conquered South Asia they did not face a entity - Indian subcontinent is merely geographic expression and has no more value then saying Asia.

Britain conquered Bengal, then UP, then Assam and piecemeal spread outwards over period of 100 years. It's like Russian colonisation of Asia. They conquered the various peoples of Siberia, Kazaks, Turkmen, Chechens, Daghestanis, Tajiks, Uzbeks etc.

Yes, Asia had a far greater population then Russia in 1880s but it was not like whole of Asia faced them when they conquered Tashkent or Khiva. At all times the Russians had numerical advantage even if all of Asia had the largest % of worlds population.
 

Kaptaan

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Both under developed federal systems who tried to force multiple ethnic groups to live together. Both experimented with socialism and failed.
You just shifted the goalposts. I think you referance religion, tribalism and identity. I doubt socialism is seen as religion. And need I remind you Turkey, UK etc are also multi-ethnic. Unless you are ignoring Kurds etc. And UK is UK for a reason - England, Scotland, Wales, Ulster.
 

Ryder

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It was not Europe that colonised China or Indian subcontinent. It was some European states like Britain, France etc. Your comment is as blunt as saying Turkey colonised Europe. It did not. It colonised Bulgars, Greeks, Serbs etc.

When the conquered South Asia they did not face a entity - Indian subcontinent is merely geographic expression and has no more value then saying Asia.

Britain conquered Bengal, then UP, then Assam and piecemeal spread outwards over period of 100 years. It's like Russian colonisation of Asia. They conquered the various peoples of Siberia, Kazaks, Turkmen, Chechens, Daghestanis, Tajiks, Uzbeks etc.

Yes, Asia had a far greater population then Russia in 1880s but it was not like whole of Asia faced them when they conquered Tashkent or Khiva. At all times the Russians had numerical advantage even if all of Asia had the largest % of worlds population.

They were all gradual conquests or colonisation.

They took centuries to fully control.

Nomadic Empires like the Mongols, Huns, Gokturks did not spend time conquering for the long term hence the speed of their conquests. Their aim was to conquer and not rule hence why they destroyed lots of cities. Better to vassalise and have rulers paying you tribute rather than ruling them.
 

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