Israel How IAF avoids Syrian air defence

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Syria has modern multilayer air defence. The biggest danger posses S-300PMU2 battery near Masyaf with range 250 km (at high altitude - yellow circle) and 18 Buk-2M mobile with range 50 km (red circles). Russian S-400 batteries provide intelligence to Syrian SAMs and can also fire under some circumstances.

Syrian SAM.jpg


Israel's preferable weapon are glide bombs GBU-39

21271036619_f251128205_b.jpg


And SPICE-1000

SPICE-2-1.jpg


Both are fire and forget and have range of about 100 km (from high altitude).

Now to attack scenarios.

1) Damascus area.

Yellow circle shows 100 km glide bomb radius:

32432432re.JPG


It's easiest. Israel can bomb there not entering at all SAM zone or very briefly.

2) Center of Syria, T4 base.

We know that IAF used GBU-39 bombs there:

Ddj6nDcX0AIUz8I


Yellow circle show their radius and its well within Syrian SAM zone. Both S-300 and Buk:

544345e.JPG


High flying aircraft (which is needed for glide bombs) would be quite an easy prey for SAMs. So the only solution I see is stealthy F-35 (which can carry GBU-39 bombs). And safest route would be through Jordan. The chance of detection is very low and even if they detect something they have very small time to understand whats that, and very small time react.

3) Masyaf factory.

This is hardest target, located right behind the S-300 (and Russian S-400 too).

Thanks to video recorded in Lebanon we know the route and kind of weapons used in attack:

4Jun cruise.jpg



This time IAF used not glide bombs but cruise missiles. The major advantage of cruise missiles is that they can be fired from low altitudes, under radar. Most probably old good Popeye missiles. IAF obviously did not want to risk F-35 and provide intelligence data about it: S-400 could record RCS when F-35 opens weapon bays or when F-35 escape (rear RCS is much higher than frontal).


============================

All 3 scenarios relate to buildings. When IAF attacks SAMs and other mobile targets 250 km Delilah missiles are mostly used. They are quite cheap, have excellent range and accuracy but have too small warhead for buildings.
 
S

Sinan

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IAF obviously did not want to risk F-35 and provide intelligence data about it: S-400 could record RCS when F-35 opens weapon bays or when F-35 escape (rear RCS is much higher than frontal).
IAF F-35s can use luneberg lenses against the RCS detection, however as you said, why to risk F-35s when you can do the exact mission with F-15s.
 
T

Turko

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Syria has modern multilayer air defence. The biggest danger posses S-300PMU2 battery near Masyaf with range 250 km (at high altitude - yellow circle) and 18 Buk-2M mobile with range 50 km (red circles). Russian S-400 batteries provide intelligence to Syrian SAMs and can also fire under some circumstances.

View attachment 669

Israel's preferable weapon are glide bombs GBU-39

View attachment 670

And SPICE-1000

View attachment 671

Both are fire and forget and have range of about 100 km (from high altitude).

Now to attack scenarios.

1) Damascus area.

Yellow circle shows 100 km glide bomb radius:

View attachment 672

It's easiest. Israel can bomb there not entering at all SAM zone or very briefly.

2) Center of Syria, T4 base.

We know that IAF used GBU-39 bombs there:

Ddj6nDcX0AIUz8I


Yellow circle show their radius and its well within Syrian SAM zone. Both S-300 and Buk:

View attachment 673

High flying aircraft (which is needed for glide bombs) would be quite an easy prey for SAMs. So the only solution I see is stealthy F-35 (which can carry GBU-39 bombs). And safest route would be through Jordan. The chance of detection is very low and even if they detect something they have very small time to understand whats that, and very small time react.

3) Masyaf factory.

This is hardest target, located right behind the S-300 (and Russian S-400 too).

Thanks to video recorded in Lebanon we know the route and kind of weapons used in attack:

View attachment 675


This time IAF used not glide bombs but cruise missiles. The major advantage of cruise missiles is that they can be fired from low altitudes, under radar. Most probably old good Popeye missiles. IAF obviously did not want to risk F-35 and provide intelligence data about it: S-400 could record RCS when F-35 opens weapon bays or when F-35 escape (rear RCS is much higher than frontal).


============================

All 3 scenarios relate to buildings. When IAF attacks SAMs and other mobile targets 250 km Delilah missiles are mostly used. They are quite cheap, have excellent range and accuracy but have too small warhead for buildings.
Having read your article , what i understand is There are a lot of gaps over Syrian air defence whereas they cant put every where point defense systems such as pantsirs and ToRs .

Have your Cruise missiles also outsmarted those defense point systems or Israel Air Force just chases the targets where there isnt any Pantsirs or TORs?
 

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Having read your article , what i understand is There are a lot of gaps over Syrian air defence whereas they cant put every where point defense systems such as pantsirs and ToRs .

Have your Cruise missiles also outsmarted those defense point systems or Israel Air Force just chases the targets where there isnt any Pantsirs or TORs?
Syrian air defence showed extremely low capability vs. missiles and glide bombs.

There is only 1 known case out of hundreds when they managed to shot down 1 glide bomb (SPICE-1000):

s98D3M-5fBw.jpg


And even here it could be simply a malfunction. Low flying cruise missiles are much much harder target than glide bombs. I dont think they have any chance.

For same reason IAF does not even use decoys in Syria - there is no need.
 

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IAF F-35s can use luneberg lenses against the RCS detection,
Luneberg lences are used to increase RCS and make Stealth jets detectable.

however as you said, why to risk F-35s when you can do the exact mission with F-15s.
In order to drop glide bombs (like GBU-39) u need to fly at high altitude and non stealthy airplanes are very vulnerable at high altitudes.
 

KKF 2.0

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None of those attacks and operations are somehow special or in any way a task that can only be achieved by the IAF.

Which leads to two observations:

1. The IAF is simply too successful. The Assadists claim that Russia is often intervening to stop potentially successful hits on Israeli jets.

2. The Turkish Airforce has the same means and equally well-educated pilots but it refrains from doing so which means that a deal between Israel and Russia is in place.

Either way, people are counting these attacks as a military victory over Syria but it isn't. It's a diplomatic victory by all means.

These ops aren't 'special' by any standard but Israel's propaganda is.
 

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None of those attacks and operations are somehow special or in any way a task that can only be achieved by the IAF.

Which leads to two observations:

1. The IAF is simply too successful. The Assadists claim that Russia is often intervening to stop potentially successful hits on Israeli jets.

2. The Turkish Airforce has the same means and equally well-educated pilots but it refrains from doing so which means that a deal between Israel and Russia is in place.

Either way, people are counting these attacks as a military victory over Syria but it isn't. It's a diplomatic victory by all means.

These ops aren't 'special' by any standard but Israel's propaganda is.
Russia knows it cant risk a situation with Israel,deal or no deal Israel does what it needs to do.
Starts an operation and finishes it,something we cant say about ''others''.
 

KKF 2.0

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Russia knows it cant risk a situation with Israel,deal or no deal Israel does what it needs to do.
Starts an operation and finishes it,something we cant say about ''others''.
Israel is well aware of her sphere of actions. She knows what is allowed by Russia and what US boundaries needs to be respected.

Don't make Israel bigger than she actually is. They just use their brains to design a formidable foreign policy.
 

TR_123456

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Israel is well aware of her sphere of actions. She knows what is allowed by Russia and what US boundaries needs to be respected.

Don't make Israel bigger than she actually is. They just use their brains to design a formidable foreign policy.
When ever has Russia done anything against Israel?
You need to be realistic,Israel does what it wants and we dont.
It is what it is.
 

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not to go piss on this threads purpose and get the mod mad for shitting up his thread since he is praising the Delilah missiles (not going to like seeing the bolded words), but nothing is more reliable when different opposing countries have an agreement on one thing.


US military sources disclose that the Israeli air offensive on Tuesday night, Dec. 25, was conducted by IAF F-16I fighter jets firing Delilah cruise missiles from Lebanese air space into Syria. Damascus is said to have countered the attack with Russian Pantsir-S2 and S-200 SAM air defense weapons. These highly credible sources also disclose that the Israeli attack was aimed at Syrian military sites – not Iranian and Hizballah targets as earlier reported in Israel and Damascus. The Israeli government and military chiefs had apparently decided, say the US sources, to take advantage of the chaos generated by President Donald Trump’s decision to pull US troops out of Syria and Ankara’s threat of a Turkish army thrust across the Euphrates. Their purpose was to disable Syrian military sites where Iranian and Hizballah combat assets were quartered.
After the F-16 jets failed to connect to their targets, the IDF sent the F-35 stealth planes over in a second wave.
According to the earlier accounts coming from inside the region, a wide-ranging IDF attack southwest of Damascus Tuesday night, Dec. 25, hit Iranian and Hizballah targets. They confirmed that some of them were embedded in Syrian army bases. Both versions confirm the attack was launched from Lebanese air space. Early Wednesday, the Syrian army released a video claiming to depict the interception of one of many Israeli missiles hit by its air defense systems. Syrian and Lebanese sources describe the Israeli air offensive as lasting 30 minutes. If correct, then this latest Israeli attack over Syria was the same length as the massive Israel Air Force strike of Nov. 29 which struck at least 15 Iranian and Hizballah targets. After that multiple raid, Damascus warned that henceforth there would be payback against corresponding targets inside Israel.
A blackout covers the circumstances of the massive explosion that rocked Israeli towns, including Hadera, Caesarea and Zichron Yaacov while the attack over Syria was in progress. It appears, however, that Syria did indeed fire an air defense missile into Israel in retaliation. The IDF spokesman would only say “The air defense system was activated against an anti-air missile launched from Syria, No damage or casualties.”
This laconic statement indicates that interception did not take place and the Syrian missile may have landed somewhere in Israel. Social media carry photos of its fragments. Witnesses attest to the activation of an Israeli air defense battery located at Ain Shemer.

This was the second time in six months that an IDF air defense battery failed to down a Syrian missile. On July 23, a David’s Sling anti-air battery missed two Syrian SS-21 surface missiles that were heading for the Sea of Galilee.


According to Arab sources, the targets of the Israeli attack were located at the military section of Damascus airport, where an Iranian transport plane – some say three – had landed, and two other locations: Dimat, headquarters of the Syrian army’s 4th Division, Qatana, site of its 10th Division, and the command center of Syrian artillery forces further south at Khan al-Sheikh.
Newsweek magazine quotes anonymous Pentagon sources as saying that one of the Israeli missiles was aimed at a high-profile Hizballah delegation which had landed in Damascus from Beirut at 16:00 local time ready to board an Iranian flight bound for Tehran. They are said to have been on their way to the funeral of Ayatollah Hashemi Alshaharoudi. Other American sources report that only one member of the delegation was hurt.


In a furious response to Israel’s air offensive of Tuesday, Dec. 25 against Syrian military targets southwest of Damascus, the Russian defense ministry spokesman accused Israel of “provocative actions… when six F-16 aircraft launched an air strike on Syrian territory from the airspace of neighboring Lebanon, creating a direct threat to two passenger aircraft.” According to the spokesman, Gen. Maj. Igor Konashenkov, the Israeli attack on Syria was “again carried out under cover” of two civil aircraft landing at the airports of Beirut and Damascus. Neither belonged to Russian air carriers, the Russian general stressed, but did not say to which countries or airlines the two planes did belong.

Russian military sources described the Israeli attack as being conducted by IAF warplanes which launched 16 missiles carrying GBU-39 bunker busters. Two reached their targets and 14 were intercepted by Syrian air defense weapons.
DEBKAfile’s military and intelligence sources note that the Russian version partially dovetails with the version presented by US military sources. Both affirm that GBU-39 Small Diameter bombs were used, but the Americans claim they were used in the second Israeli wave of strikes – and only after Syrian anti-air missiles knocked out most of the Delilah cruise missiles fired from F-16 jets.
Our sources also stress that that this was the first time that a Russian defense spokesman had referred to Beirut international airport, or Lebanon per se, in the context of an Israeli air strike over Syria. It may be taken as a Russian message to Jerusalem that the Kremlin and Russian army chiefs are weighing their options for retaliating against the Israeli air offensive. One possibility is the extension of the Russian shield of S-400 and S-300 air defense missile systems protecting Syrian air space to the skies over Lebanon. This safety curtain would also protect Hizballah. A decision in Moscow on how to react against Israel may take a few days, like the time lapse before Russian S-300 air defense systems were deployed in Syria after the downing of the downing of the IL-20 spy plane on Sept. 17 for which Israel was blamed.

DEBKAfile’s sources account for Moscow’s fury over the Israel’s latest air strike by two factors:


  1. Israel was always expected to respect the Russiam role as protector of the Assad regime, a cardinal pillar of its foreign policy, and refrain from destabilizing actions. On Tuesday night, Israeli missiles were aimed at the Syrian army’s 4th Division headquarters as Saboura, the mainstay of the regime. For Moscow, this crossed an unacceptable line in the relationship, even if Iranian or Hizballah forces were located there.
  2. The Russians were confident that the new air defense shield they had deployed around Damascus, consisting of Pantsir-S2, S-200 SAM, BUK-M2, and S-300 missile batteries, was foolproof against any Israeli air or missile assaults on and around the Syrian capital. And, indeed, that array struck down the first wave of Israeli missiles. But Moscow did not count on the IAF persevering and immediately releasing a second wave of missiles before the Syrians were able to reorganize for defense. It was this perseverance which so angered the Russians in September, after the IL-20 was shot down by a Syrian missile, and which set off the crisis in relations between Moscow and Jerusalem.
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s rejoinder: “Our actions against Iran’s military establishment in Syria will continue,” he said on Wednesday. “We stand by our red lines.” And Air Force chief Maj. Gen. Amikam Nurkin said: “By means of an extraordinary joint effort, we have thwarted Iran’s drive for an active military foothold on our northern border. We are not done yet. If necessary, we are ready for more ground and air operations.

I never thought a day would come when U.S., Russia, Israel and Syria could come to agreements like this, like on the effectiveness of pantsirs and Delilah missiles, its beautiful.
 

McCool

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all this shows that SAM systems especially with the likes of S-300/400 are overhyped. Airpower would decide who live and die.

anyway nice video :

 

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main policy of Israel is to use harop, harpy to hit radar stations & spice 250 to surpass radars..
 

blackjack

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the kamikaze drone of israel was sufficient with some late 1970s S-300 the Armenians had, S-200 are still proven useful against aircrafts that use EW systems and we haven't seen s-300s or s-400s being used yet as far as air power goes.
 

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Debka is trash source.

the kamikaze drone of israel was sufficient with some late 1970s S-300 the Armenians had,
Armenians had S-300PS from middle of 80-es.

S-200 are still proven useful against aircrafts that use EW systems and we haven't seen s-300s or s-400s being used yet as far as air power goes.
S-200 was not proven useful at all. They managed to shot down 1 Israeli jet when it was flying deep inside Israeli territory and not expecting attack. Even then they fired some 20 rockets. In hundreds of Israeli attacks S-200 showed zero efficiency.
 

blackjack

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Debka is trash source
but its an israeli source, though I can see pissed off israeli comments on the articles saying loose lips sink ships. there was a french article saying the same.

Armenians had S-300PS from middle of 80-es.
dont think drones were excessively used in combat back than, its better to have short range air defenses integrated with it and the majority of Armenia is real bad.
S-200 was not proven useful at all. They managed to shot down 1 Israeli jet when it was flying deep inside Israeli territory and not expecting attack. Even then they fired some 20 rockets. In hundreds of Israeli attacks S-200 showed zero efficiency.
Seen russians display their S-400 radar target images that their illyushin aircraft was used as cover so there could have been another tragedy, its still useful to do point of downing modern aircraft
 

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but its an israeli source, though I can see pissed off israeli comments on the articles saying loose lips sink ships. there was a french article saying the same.
Its trash source no matter if Israeli or not. I am surprised people still buying it.

dont think drones were excessively used in combat back than, its better to have short range air defenses integrated with it and the majority of Armenia is real bad.
Drones were excessively used in combat since 1982.


Seen russians display their S-400 radar target images that their illyushin aircraft was used as cover so there could have been another tragedy, its still useful to do point of downing modern aircraft
Russians lied as usual.

* Israeli F-16s dropped bombs at 21:40 from the sea side and immediately left the area. During that time Il-20 was located 200 kms away over Idlib province.
* Il-20 was shot down in 22:05 when Israeli jets were landing in Israel.

These are undisputed facts.
 

Huelague

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Syrian air defence showed extremely low capability vs. missiles and glide bombs.

There is only 1 known case out of hundreds when they managed to shot down 1 glide bomb (SPICE-1000):

s98D3M-5fBw.jpg


And even here it could be simply a malfunction. Low flying cruise missiles are much much harder target than glide bombs. I dont think they have any chance.

For same reason IAF does not even use decoys in Syria - there is no need.
You are quoting @UkroTurk, but its @Turko, who has written. :/
 

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I repeat: Israeli F-16th doped bombs at 21:40 when Il-20 was 200 kms away over Idlib. This is undisputed fact admitted by Russians themselves.

Il-20 was shot down 25 minutes after Israeli bombing at 22:05. Again undisputed fact admitted by Russians themselves.

Can you dispute this facts? - No.
 

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