Defence Q&A how to counter F35's?

Heartbang

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What counter meassures can countries take when facing the F-35 ?
 
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Quasar

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title is self-explanatory. GO!

The most logical solution is preemptive stike! hit them when they are on the ground.

when they are airborne; a combination and network of IRIST, VHF and UHF band radars , pasif radars, radar trangulation and baits. every and each of them has its shortcomings when applied alone so you need a well organized network to have a chance.
 
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TR_123456

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The most logical solution is preemptive stike! hit them when they are on the ground.

when they are airborne; a combination and network of IRIST, VHF and UHF band radars , pasif radars, radar trangulation and baits. every and each of them has its shortcomings when applied alone so you need a well organized network.
What if the ''ground'' is an AC with a carrier group?
 

Oublious

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A very nice topic to talk about. F35 is a fighter what use the benefits of electromagnetic spectrum. To detect that kind fighter we will not need only good radar but a lot of sensor. ESM is on of that, how does a data-link work? Can you track datalink signal and track pin point a target?

Software attack, or do we call it cyber attack? Signall intelligence, you could track with traffick analysis. Ther are more technics within ELINT systems, we don't need only good radar against a stealth fighter.

The futur is stealth so not only F35 but against every stealth fighter we need a solutionn.
 

Ravenman

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I dont believe in the stealthiness of the F35, otherwise the Americans wont argue that the S400 is a danger to the the stealth-tech of the F35.

The world would see that the F35 could be easy detected by the S400 and that was a huge risk for customers and potential clients.
 

Quasar

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A very nice topic to talk about. F35 is a fighter what use the benefits of electromagnetic spectrum. To detect that kind fighter we will not need only good radar but a lot of sensor. ESM is on of that, how does a data-link work? Can you track datalink signal and track pin point a target?

Software attack, or do we call it cyber attack? Signall intelligence, you could track with traffick analysis. Ther are more technics within ELINT systems, we don't need only good radar against a stealth fighter.

The futur is stealth so not only F35 but against every stealth fighter we need a solutionn.
just a foot note; As a part of stealth concept they use low probability of intercept (LPI) datalinks on the F-22 and the F-35 series, funy thing is until recently F35 and F 22 could not share data with each other but only with their kind. İt was a huge handicap. They are working on it. Now they can share data with each other via a third plane, in one experiment with an U 2S with communications gateway payload guess it was last year.

But you have a point they can and they are using Link 16 in some cases, when They use link 16 you have higher chances to spot and track the aircraft via those emissions. in Full stealth mode they only use The MADL and IFDL systems which are both designed to be low probability of intercept/low probability of detection (LPI/LPD) systems that enable F-35 and the F-22 to communicate with their kind while still remaining as stealthy as possible

As DARPA puts it Millimeter wave links provide physical security, but pose networking challenges!

message-editor%2F1619795549072-ifdl-madl.jpg
 
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B.t.N

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Experienced ears can detect and decipher sonar echoes. No matter how insignificant, the plane’s shadow is on the radar screen. With the right equipment, an experienced radar technician should be able to tell apart an F35 from say, a bird flock! I believe the US was (still is) worried that the S400 radar could somehow trace F35’s rcs signature, and archive for easier detection. And there goes the billions…
 

I_Love_F16

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I dont believe in the stealthiness of the F35, otherwise the Americans wont argue that the S400 is a danger to the the stealth-tech of the F35.

The world would see that the F35 could be easy detected by the S400 and that was a huge risk for customers and potential clients.

Because that’s just an excuse. The Israelis are already using their F-35 in Syria where Russian S400 are stationed, and what happened ? They keep destroying Syrian air defenses like there’s no tomorrow.
People think that AA are some sort of magic things that will magically stop any enemy fighters jet incursion into their territory but that’s not how it works. The only thing AA will provide you is to gain some time for your Air Force.
 

B.t.N

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Because that’s just an excuse. The Israelis are already using their F-35 in Syria where Russian S400 are stationed, and what happened ? They keep destroying Syrian air defenses like there’s no tomorrow.
People think that AA are some sort of magic things that will magically stop any enemy fighters jet incursion into their territory but that’s not how it works. The only thing AA will provide you is to gain some time for your Air Force.
Just a quick question, or maybe two, or more… What do you say, is that because the Russian systems are incapacitated as some suggest? Who is to blame, the inefficient Syrian crew (as there is no mention of Russian casualties)? Or, could it be a non-verbal deal between Russia and Israel (Hebrews are whisper quiet when it comes to such deals)? Are they flying stealth into Syria? If so, how can anyone be assured that Russia does not already have F35s’ (rcs) signature?

EDIT: And there are rumours out there, multiple Syrian AD assest were hit , because they locked onto Israeli jets!
 
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Heartbang

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Experienced ears can detect and decipher sonar echoes. No matter how insignificant, the plane’s shadow is on the radar screen. With the right equipment, an experienced radar technician should be able to tell apart an F35 from say, a bird flock! I believe the US was (still is) worried that the S400 radar could somehow trace F35’s rcs signature, and archive for easier detection. And there goes the billions…
are you suggesting we should develop some kinda airborne sonar system to detect stealth planes?
 

B.t.N

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are you suggesting we should develop some kinda airborne sonar system to detect stealth planes?
Try again bro ;)

“Since detection is all about the signal-to-noise ratio, low observable reduce the signal, while electronic attack increases the noise. The U.S. navy and Lockheed are already working in these areas of stealth technology thereby creating the need to develop even more sophisticated sensors that cue radars about the invisible blackbirds that roam our skies.”

www.defenceaviation.com

How to detect Stealth Aircraft? - Defence Aviation

Modern stealth aircraft boast of being able to avoid detection using a variety of stealth technologies that reduce reflection and emission of radar, infrared,
www.defenceaviation.com
www.defenceaviation.com
 
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Oublious

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just a foot note; As a part of stealth concept they use low probability of intercept (LPI) datalinks on the F-22 and the F-35 series, funy thing is until recently F35 and F 22 could not share data with each other but only with their kind. İt was a huge handicap. They are working on it. Now they can share data with each other via a third plane, in one experiment with an U 2S with communications gateway payload guess it was last year.

But you have a point they can and they are using Link 16 in some cases, when They use link 16 you have higher chances to spot and track the aircraft via those emissions. in Full stealth mode they only use The MADL and IFDL systems which are both designed to be low probability of intercept/low probability of detection (LPI/LPD) systems that enable F-35 and the F-22 to communicate with their kind while still remaining as stealthy as possible

As DARPA puts it Millimeter wave links provide physical security, but pose networking challenges!

message-editor%2F1619795549072-ifdl-madl.jpg


Still they emitting signals, what I now is our E7 Awacs have ESM capabilities what can localize enemy target who use ther coms. Interesting technologies are used.
 

Quasar

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Still they emitting signals, what I now is our E7 Awacs have ESM capabilities what can localize enemy target who use ther coms. Interesting technologies are used.
damn I was worried for a while, they are emitting signals so our E7 Awacs have ESM capabilities and Interesting technologies to localize enemy F 35 or F22, care to eloborate a bit further since it realy sounds interesting like other E7s i.e Korean, Australian, UKs E7s have this Interesting technologies as well or only we have it?
 
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I_Love_F16

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Just a quick question, or maybe two, or more… What do you say, is that because the Russian systems are incapacitated as some suggest? Who is to blame, the inefficient Syrian crew (as there is no mention of Russian casualties)? Or, could it be a non-verbal deal between Russia and Israel (Hebrews are whisper quiet when it comes to such deals)? Are they flying stealth into Syria? If so, how can anyone be assured that Russia does not already have F35s’ (rcs) signature?

EDIT: And there are rumours out there, multiple Syrian AD assest were hit , because they locked onto Israeli jets!

Well the Israelis only targeted the Syrian ones. I'm not sure about the efficiency of the Syrian crew but there is a big chance that it is the case.

Are they flying stealth into Syria?

Well It's very likely, why flying F-35 otherwise ?

how can anyone be assured that Russia does not already have F35s’ (rcs) signature?

We don't know if they managed to pick up the F-35 on their radar. For that to happen the Israelis have to fly pretty close to the S-400 but I don't think that was the case. Maybe @500 can provide more details. :)

EDIT: And there are rumours out there, multiple Syrian AD assest were hit , because they locked onto Israeli jets!

Don't know about these rumors but it seems believable to me. When fighters jet are being locked by an air defense system they can see it on their RWR and launch an Anti-Radiation missle at them.
 

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