Indonesia - Israel Complicated Relation

Umigami

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In these few months I notice A LOT of talk regarding this topic raging all over other threads and kind of derail from those thread's main topic.
Continue discussion in this thread from now on.
First thing first. .. According to our law, it said... "All colonization over the world must be removed". .. Put that in your tiny little mind...

That is why we don't not open embassy at kosher... The law said " No can do Jose"... Put that in your tiny little mind...

Because they law said so... Thus we can not officially buy kosher stuff... If we buy kosher stuff, we are officially agree with their act of colonization... Pit that in your tiny little mind...

Don't base your prejudice upon religion basis... In my term, it is called racist... Pit that in your tiny little mind...

if it is according to your tenet, we must put close our relationship with many countries in the world, like the Russian (who annexed Crimea illegaly and had serious contending issue in Chechnya), China (who had Uyghur issue), UK (which had Northern Ireland issue), France (in which still maintained colony in Southern America), the US of A (in which made an enclave at guantanamo and other places around the world) not to mention other numerous countries in which had such issue right now (Marocco, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and so on) so your point will made Indonesia look like a pariah country none better than North Korea if it is implemented so seriously.

Just look at this point how hypocrite our foreign policy right now? why not adjust everything into what will bring the more benefit into Indonesia and Indonesian people at whole in the first place, let everything decided upon Indonesian first policy, not Palestinian first, not the Arabs first, not the Yankee first, not the Middle Kingdom first or so on.

hmmm... me think with meh tiny brain & low IQ so bear with me carefully before you respond (if at all)

In order to determine "colonization" common sense dictate that one first need to determine the subject of the said colonization, which typically a territory along with the indigenous people who live there. That being said, what is the subject of this "colonization" of yours will be❓

BTW, is there any reason why you yourself is currently seem fine using "kosher" product & service❓

First... The Israelis is colonizing the indigenous Palestinian land... Whether you admit it nor not... That is the fact...

Second... I don't like us using kosher stuff... In my daily life I always try to avoid using kosher related products...

Third... The Constitution said colonization is bad, periode... Supporting colonizer, is bad, whether directly or indirectly... Buying kosher products, in my opinion, is supporting their economy, in the end, supporting their colonizong action...

Fourth... You, me, all of us, the next generation of Indonesia never felt being colonized, thus make us can't relate much to our forest fathers vision of freedom and Constitution...

Now, u said, kosher product is okay... Because kosher is not invading us... If kosher are invading us already, u might say the other way around...

Now, u said Chinese products are okay, because they are not invading us, but believe me when they came, we will have the same common hatred...

Colonizer is bad, all of colonizer product should be banned to stop them economically...

Five... The Constitution said so... The law said so... We can't be picky... It is either we uphold the law, or we abandoned it altogether...

I don't care where you consider yourself on political spectrum, but Carlos The Jackal will be proud of you.

Baca ni..... kalian semua tu jangan pragmatis, yang idealis + kaffah gitu lho...

I was not talking about what the Israelis been doing in the Palestine. I was focusing on your claim that the politicians have been barking loudly about our military procurement from Israel.

I admit I'm not really active in Indonesian social media environment. Heck, I even set the Twitter trending in my account to UK. But even simple quick google search doesn't show this "political elites barking loudly about military procurement from Israel" claim of yours.

Look, military stuff for most people is not really entertaining. Only few people actually interested in this military stuff. All of us members here are the minority bunch. I'm pretty sure that those politicians would prefer to use other Jewish products to "bark loudly" about Israel and leave the military procurement as the least preference:ROFLMAO:. That's why I made a point that the government will find it very easy to play and muddle the narrative if they start to bark about our military procurement from Israel.

I don't think any political party would want to risk losing many votes by doing this (especially in East Java and West Java). It's not worth it. The goal is only to get their products. No more no less. Pretty sure there are smart ways to do it without risking anything.

That wont happen soon enough. Our former President Gus Dur Alm. try it, he wanted to open kind of consulate just to focus on the trade/economic area. Too bad he steped down before it happened. I personally agree with him in this case, no Embassy just some representative office to conduct trade.

Those anti Israeli statements by some politician is just for domestic consumption aka to gain support just like you and others have said. The reality in todays Indonesian politics the major political power beside political party is Organisasi keagamaan, TNI & Polri. All of them have huge political influence and TNI/Polri is officially & legally armed to the teeth. Who dare to blatanly open the defense product acquisition from Israel where it is use solely to defend the nation? And how many ex military generals are now currently hold office in govt body? They are some arguments among them but their jiwa korsa will kick in when their former Institution being verbally/politically attacked, and most of them would be united to challenge it. (salh stu sebab sshnya beresin procurement mreka :LOL: )

TNI/Polri will always play their part as the "balancer" in Indonesian political ground, just like they do since the beginning of kemerdekaan. Altho their role is different now but still Indonesian people oftenly look to some military General figure when they are looking for "Strong" leadership. Why? Its in our blood to accept Good feodalism, its in our long history of Kerajaan followed by long lasting of Dutch occupation, The demokrasi terpimpin on Soekarno era and Soeharto. Like it or not its in our "culture".

So yeah, all those politician can say anything they want about Israeli product to public but to bring that word openly right infront the Govt/TNI/Polri is a political suicide. That is why only few issues emerged "officially" regarding this, even mbah google having a hard time finding it 😁

According to your habib you mean❓ Tack-Beer YAAAY

Anyway, you mention two terms that are key points here, they are ;
  • indigenous =belonging to a particular place rather than coming to it from somewhere else (Oxford Learners Dictionaries)
  • colonization = the act of taking control of an area or a country that is not your own, especially using force, and sending people from your own country to live there (Oxford Learners Dictionaries)
So who or what are the Palestinian you were referring to❓
Anyway, let's examine a few things beforehand, shall we.
  1. Before the creation of PLO (by at the time the KGB if I'm not mistaken) what we're now referring as Palestinian were referring themselves as Arab which is basically saying that they are a part of the Greater Arab Nation (whatever that was).
  2. Prior to the creation of PLO there was never any claim whatsoever from Arab leadership to claim the region as their own
  3. 19th century travel account had indicate that what we have now known as Palestine is a wasteland only inhabit by small number of poor Jews settlement with far fewer equally poor Arab, along with the occasional Bedouins marauder.
  4. Not until the wave of returning Jews in late 19th - early 20th century does the region began to thrive, with the Jews rebuilding everything, and the Arabs came there to seek jobs & business.

And yet here thy are


Who colonizing who❓


And yet here thy are


Relatable is something that happen in your state of mind


And yet here thy are


Finally, mentioning something about the law (not sure which though)

There are 3 prerequisites for a sovereign nation :
  1. Territory (This requires more than a hollow claim, but also both the presence & ability to enforce policy)
  2. People.
  3. Recognition by previously recognize nation state
That being said, who is now having the more of it❓

Well, this already a gross detraction to the thread topic, but I was willing to entertain you for a short while for the benefit of others before I put you in my ignore list along with your other account (I did say for you to be very careful before responding, didn't I)

BTW If I were you, I would wait for at least a month or so before creating another account in this forum
 

Umigami

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I was not talking about what the Israelis been doing in the Palestine. I was focusing on your claim that the politicians have been barking loudly about our military procurement from Israel.

I admit I'm not really active in Indonesian social media environment. Heck, I even set the Twitter trending in my account to UK. But even simple quick google search doesn't show this "political elites barking loudly about military procurement from Israel" claim of yours.

Look, military stuff for most people is not really entertaining. Only few people actually interested in this military stuff. All of us members here are the minority bunch. I'm pretty sure that those politicians would prefer to use other Jewish products to "bark loudly" about Israel and leave the military procurement as the least preference:ROFLMAO:. That's why I made a point that the government will find it very easy to play and muddle the narrative if they start to bark about our military procurement from Israel.
Actually even my "Kaffah", military enthusiast friend is kind of "diam seribu bahasa" about this procurement.
Well, this already a gross detraction to the thread topic,
you can continue here.
 

Gundala

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wow, good work by Umigami creating special place for us to continue this discussion. From now on Ima say Umigami for the win!! 💪🤟

On a serious note I have no idea where this Israel bad boy trade mark came from. I was born and raised in Jakarta and went to state highschool. To be honest I rarely seen nor heard about that argument during teenage-hood. As I grow older I am now have slight clue on where it is came from. Below is the video we could all see; we might agree or disagree totally up to you. I simply wanted to take you out to see different kind of perspective.


8:00 - 8:55

Edit: adding time stamp
 
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trishna_amrta

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woi @Umigami masih ada beberapa yg kelewatan tuch belum dipindah kemari. Para pengikutnya habib lagi carii panggung karna mungkin kesepian di PakDef
 

Umigami

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woi @Umigami masih ada beberapa yg kelewatan tuch belum dipindah kemari. Para pengikutnya habib lagi carii panggung karna mungkin kesepian di PakDef
If they still interesting to continue the talk in other thread, I'll divert them here.

Males juga gw nyariin satu2 di semua thread bos...
 
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