Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Var Dracon]

sadly they put "Pirates of Carribean" music without any legal permission.

They sould pick one of Sabaton song tho

It is "He's a Pirate metal version"

 

[Van Kravchenko]

It is "He's a Pirate metal version"

the man behind the scene perhaps former metalhead enthusiasm.


Anyway, sad to see our rosian made inventory mustbe supported by US made inventory.

 

[chiphocks]

Wait wait, he said TNI prefer F16 block 72 rather than F15EX???
Why TNI dont want it?? is it because it still a new plane and no one know the bugs in it yet??
tooo expensive?? no experience with this plane??

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Wait wait, he said TNI prefer F16 block 72 rather than F15EX???
Why TNI dont want it?? is it because it still a new plane and no one know the bugs in it yet??
tooo expensive?? no experience with this plane??

One of the reason is the infrastructure and commonality, the other are Price to Performance value, and many more.

Yes, spam F 16 is the best option to counter northern communist

 

[Captain Wales]

Wait wait, he said TNI prefer F16 block 72 rather than F15EX???
Why TNI dont want it?? is it because it still a new plane and no one know the bugs in it yet??
tooo expensive?? no experience with this plane??

we already operate the legacy one, commonality with its weapon and infrastructure is another thing, easier transition in training (pilot, maintenance, etc) from current block to block 72, cheaper to buy / operate and we can spam F16 as much as we like.

we can upgrade and maintain on our own (as seen in our current F16 upgrade), also a few of the air force general are ex-F16 pilot so yea.
.
.
.
as much as i like rafale i leaning more towards F15, we already got common pool of weapon, a few of the infrastructure are interchangeable with F16 and also its range and greater payload carrying capacity rivaling our sukhoi series fighter.

but i can see why we reluctant to put our all of our egg into single basket, with our embargo experience and the need to diversified our fighter (even though some in the air force oppose those idea)

 

[Mandala]

Issue dated 10/05/2021

After Cairo, Rafale ready to land in Jakarta​

Dassault is in the final stages of negotiation with the French and Indonesian finance ministries for funding for the sale of 36 Rafale fighter planes to Indonesia, where an anti-corrution crackdown is underway. [...]

FRANCE/INDONESIA : After Cairo, Rafale ready to land in Jakarta - 10/05/2021 - Intelligence Online

Dassault is in the final stages of negotiation with the French and Indonesian finance ministries for funding for the sale of 36 Rafale fighter planes to Indonesia, where an anti-corrution crackdown - 5/10/2021

www.intelligenceonline.com

^^^ Unfortunately need to be a subscriber to read the full article.

 

[NEKO]

Rafale and F15EX is the very likely candidates then. But in the the past F16 is also already "confirmed" then suddenly got scrapped, so F15EX still can be scrapped. KSAU said that F15EX will come soon but there is still no MOU signing or they don't announce it to the public?

I hope it won't involves any third party.

 

[Umigami]

English version of KF21 video I share the other day

 

[Indos]

Indonesian Wingman STEALTH UCAV Program​

Indonesian wingman UCAV, I think it will be our next project starting in 2027 after the development of our MALE UCAV Black Eagle is completed in 2025 inshaAllah.

I think we have enough man power to do that despite I believe our next new administration will also likely to pursue R 80 passenger plane development starting in 2025 in cooperation with Habibie family in PT RAI.

Indonesia Aerospace needs to complete R 80 detail design first

For your information, PT RAI doesnt have enough design engineers for detail design phase that needs more than hundred design engineer, thus they need Indonesia Aerospace for both development and manufacturing partner of R 80 passenger plane program.

R 80 preliminary design phase (basic design) that is now being worked by PT RAI will likely finish during this administration and N 245 basic and detail design that is being worked by Indonesian Aerospace (PTDI) I believe will also finish at this administation (2019-2024).

In order to improve design expertise in Indonesia Space Agency (LAPAN), LAPAN is also included in R 80 basic design phase to learn from experience engineers in PT RAI that many are former Indonesian Aerospace engineers with huge design experience like Ilham Habibie himself as the company Chairman of Commissioners. Ilham Habibie is a former project manager of N 2130 program of Indonesia Aerospace.

With the completion of KF 21/IFX program (despite development will be continued until block 3) in 2026 inshaAllah, so Indonesia can focus on next big project that require big fund and lot of experience engineers.

2027 as the start of the program (my proposal)

Indonesian Aerospace I hope will work for R80 detail design in 2025-2026/27. After detail design of R 80 completes in about 1-2 years inshaAllah, so Indonesia can start on Wingman UCAV program starting in 2027.

All experience taken during the development of KF 21/IFX (which I believe to be named IF 21) will be valuable for our wingman UCAV program that should also use STEALTH design, RAM, composite material, and IWB.

As like our MALE UCAV program that needs 10 years to complete inshaAllah (starting at 2015), so the Wingman program will likely complete in 2037 where block 3 of KF 21/IFX will likely already been started to be mass produced inshaAllah.

Economic feasibility

This program IMO is visible economically as Indonesia nominal GDP in 2035 is projected to reach 4 trillion USD (current price). With recent trend on our trade to have a surplus, Indonesian Rupiah will likely to be more stable and get strenghten, so that 4 trillion USD nominal GDP is likely to reach under conservative 5.5-6 percent economic growth projection inshaAllah.

https://cebr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/WELT-2021-final-23.12.pdf

One of the benefit as KF 21/IFX developer partner

Fighter developers in the future will also sell this wingman in one package, so non fighter developer country is unlikely to have the chance to penetrate this Wingman market, unless under foreign company where its origin country is fighter jet developer, so it is why Boeing Australia can develop it for Australia market under Boeing company.

This is why as Indonesia is a developer partner of KF 21/IFX fighter plane, so we have huge chance to supply our own Air Force with this wingman UCAV. All experience and knowledge we get through KF 21/IFX program can directly help our future STEALTH wingman UCAV program.

I projected Indonesia to have at least 200 KF 21/IFX until 2045 so we need around 400 Wingman UCAV which is really quite feasible in business sense for Indonesian Aerospace and other companies that could take part of the program like PT LEN Industry and PT Info Global.

AI Research

To prepare for this program, we need AI research that is intended for this program from now on. I know one of Indonesia Research Agency, LIPI, has AI research where one of my cousin is one of the researchers. Previously he is in radar department.

 

[Indos]

This from knowledgeable Korean member in PDF (dr. knowhow)

"Other improvements like MUM-T with UCAVs would be able to be implemented on block 2 as well since block 2 of KF-21/IF-X already uses IMA mission computer and a SDR suite and ROKAF seems to be planning to do just that. That flying wing UCAV which I've showed you a while ago would be operating alongside KF-21 and is planned to be developed by mid-late 2020s."

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Indonesian Wingman STEALTH UCAV Program​

Indonesian wingman UCAV, I think it will be our next project starting in 2027 after the development of our MALE UCAV Black Eagle is completed in 2025 inshaAllah.

I think we have enough man power to do that despite I believe our next new administration will also likely to pursue R 80 passenger plane development starting in 2025 in cooperation with Habibie family in PT RAI.

Indonesia Aerospace needs to complete R 80 detail design first

For your information, PT RAI doesnt have enough design engineers for detail design phase that needs more than hundred design engineer, thus they need Indonesia Aerospace for both development and manufacturing partner of R 80 passenger plane program.

R 80 preliminary design phase (basic design) that is now being worked by PT RAI will likely finish during this administration and N 245 basic and detail design that is being worked by Indonesian Aerospace (PTDI) I believe will also finish at this administation (2019-2024).

In order to improve design expertise in Indonesia Space Agency (LAPAN), LAPAN is also included in R 80 basic design phase to learn from experience engineers in PT RAI that many are former Indonesian Aerospace engineers with huge design experience like Ilham Habibie himself as the company Chairman of Commissioners. Ilham Habibie is a former project manager of N 2130 program of Indonesia Aerospace.

With the completion of KF 21/IFX program (despite development will be continued until block 3) in 2026 inshaAllah, so Indonesia can focus on next big project that require big fund and lot of experience engineers.

2027 as the start of the program (my proposal)

Indonesian Aerospace I hope will work for R80 detail design in 2025-2026/27. After detail design of R 80 completes in about 1-2 years inshaAllah, so Indonesia can start on Wingman UCAV program starting in 2027.

All experience taken during the development of KF 21/IFX (which I believe to be named IF 21) will be valuable for our wingman UCAV program that should also use STEALTH design, RAM, composite material, and IWB.

As like our MALE UCAV program that needs 10 years to complete inshaAllah (starting at 2015), so the Wingman program will likely complete in 2037 where block 3 of KF 21/IFX will likely already been started to be mass produced inshaAllah.

Economic feasibility

This program IMO is visible economically as Indonesia nominal GDP in 2035 is projected to reach 4 trillion USD (current price). With recent trend on our trade to have a surplus, Indonesian Rupiah will likely to be more stable and get strenghten, so that 4 trillion USD nominal GDP is likely to reach under conservative 5.5-6 percent economic growth projection inshaAllah.

https://cebr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/WELT-2021-final-23.12.pdf

One of the benefit as KF 21/IFX developer partner

Fighter developers in the future will also sell this wingman in one package, so non fighter developer country is unlikely to have the chance to penetrate this Wingman market, unless under foreign company where its origin country is fighter jet developer, so it is why Boeing Australia can develop it for Australia market under Boeing company.

This is why as Indonesia is a developer partner of KF 21/IFX fighter plane, so we have huge chance to supply our own Air Force with this wingman UCAV. All experience and knowledge we get through KF 21/IFX program can directly help our future STEALTH wingman UCAV program.

I projected Indonesia to have at least 200 KF 21/IFX until 2045 so we need around 400 Wingman UCAV which is really quite feasible in business sense for Indonesian Aerospace and other companies that could take part of the program like PT LEN Industry and PT Info Global.

AI Research

To prepare for this program, we need AI research that is intended for this program from now on. I know one of Indonesia Research Agency, LIPI, has AI research where one of my cousin is one of the researchers. Previously he is in radar department.

Is our industrial capability adequate to support this program post 2024 ?.

Working on CUAV surely need a long time, and the TNI seems in desperate need of cheap CUAV, so they push Black Eagle to top priority project.

 

[Indos]

Is our industrial capability adequate to support this program post 2024 ?.

Working on CUAV surely need a long time, and the TNI seems in desperate need of cheap CUAV, so they push Black Eagle to top priority project.

I believe so, the project will likely be done after we finish both MALE UCAV and KF21/IFX program inshaAllah, so this is why I put 2027 as the likely time to kick start the program development. Both MALE UCAV and KF21/IFX programs that will make us have the ability to do that STEALTH wingman program. But some Research in AI should get more funding from now on.

As my cousin said, we can actually achieve some thing significant if our researcher get assurance and funding in long term project, ranging minimal in 10 years span.

That Doctorate program in University of Indonesia and also Bandung Institute of Technology for nano technology in Radar Absorben Material should get project as well soon. We also can possibly use RAM in KF 21/IFX program for our possible wingman UCAV program, but better if we can make it ourselves.

 

[Parry Brima]

Issue dated 10/05/2021

After Cairo, Rafale ready to land in Jakarta​

Dassault is in the final stages of negotiation with the French and Indonesian finance ministries for funding for the sale of 36 Rafale fighter planes to Indonesia, where an anti-corrution crackdown is underway. [...]

FRANCE/INDONESIA : After Cairo, Rafale ready to land in Jakarta - 10/05/2021 - Intelligence Online

Dassault is in the final stages of negotiation with the French and Indonesian finance ministries for funding for the sale of 36 Rafale fighter planes to Indonesia, where an anti-corrution crackdown - 5/10/2021

www.intelligenceonline.com

^^^ Unfortunately need to be a subscriber to read the full article.

The Egypt deal is $4.5 bn for 30 jets, which includes contracts for missile manufacturer MBDA and equipment provider Safran Electronics & Defense which are worth $241m.

So it's $150m for a combat-ready Rafale.

Financing for the deal would be up to 85 percent guaranteed by the French state with BNP Paribas SA, Credit Agricole, Societe Generale and CIC.

So if 85% is coming from the foreign loan provided by the French gov, it's probably about $0.7 bn cash that is provided by the Egyptian gov.

Egypt's debt to GDP ratio is about 87%, while Indonesia is about 41%. If Egypt can afford it, surely we can

(from various sources)

 

[Van Kravchenko]

The Egypt deal is $4.5 bn for 30 jets, which includes contracts for missile manufacturer MBDA and equipment provider Safran Electronics & Defense which are worth $241m.

So it's $150m for a combat-ready Rafale.

Financing for the deal would be up to 85 percent guaranteed by the French state with BNP Paribas SA, Credit Agricole, Societe Generale and CIC.

So if 85% is coming from the foreign loan provided by the French gov, it's probably about $0.7 bn cash that is provided by the Egyptian gov.

Egypt's debt to GDP ratio is about 87%, while Indonesia is about 41%. If Egypt can afford it, surely we can

(from various sources)

i dont know about "hutang" but, how the hell we pay 40% + from GDP "hutang"


Gosh, am already "muak" with this country "bancakan" leadership

 

[Parry Brima]

i dont know about "hutang" but, how the hell we pay 40% + from GDP "hutang"


Gosh, am already "muak" with this country "bancakan" leadership

No problem, there's always used Eurofighters to save the day

 

[wekiweko]

realistically speaking F-15EX can come to Indonesia (if we really buy that thing) after USAF declared IOC. If suddenly some eagle with pentagon roundel comes operational in TNI AU before USAF declares IOC for eagle EX, we can be suspicious that those eagles come from certain base in the Arizona desert wkwkwk.

anyhow, after all the big talk about rafale or eagle, still waiting for the big talker to sign actual sale and purchase contract

 

[Panca]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3635390966569220&id=181276675314017&set=pcb.3635391636569153&source=49&refid=13&__tn__=%2B%3D

 

[chiphocks]

One of the reason is the infrastructure and commonality, the other are Price to Performance value, and many more.

Yes, spam F 16 is the best option to counter northern communist

we already operate the legacy one, commonality with its weapon and infrastructure is another thing, easier transition in training (pilot, maintenance, etc) from current block to block 72, cheaper to buy / operate and we can spam F16 as much as we like.

we can upgrade and maintain on our own (as seen in our current F16 upgrade), also a few of the air force general are ex-F16 pilot so yea.
.
.
.
as much as i like rafale i leaning more towards F15, we already got common pool of weapon, a few of the infrastructure are interchangeable with F16 and also its range and greater payload carrying capacity rivaling our sukhoi series fighter.

but i can see why we reluctant to put our all of our egg into single basket, with our embargo experience and the need to diversified our fighter (even though some in the air force oppose those idea)

single engine multirole vs two engine air superiority or multirole
it's a totally different species with a different function

sure they will got more problems by babysitting 2 things, but this new one is dedicated for the things that the F16 just not that good at.

and about the embargo, lets just face it, we already make a mistake by signing that CAATSA.
i mean, neutral and yet signing thing that say i agree to not to do things against u, my friend, when u have a long lasting conflict with my other friend???
-_-

and now we can be nothing more but a good little brother to him.

 

[Parry Brima]

I got nothing important to do before Idul Fitri, so I just googled the lending interest rate for banks in France.

In the last 5 years French banks have dropped their lending interest (average) from about 2% pa to 1.26% pa (the record low is 0.94% pa in May 2020).

So assuming we repay (let's say) $5 bil loan from French gov for Rafale in 10 years term (Egyptian MoD said their deal is for 10 years), using 2% pa interest rate, the interest total will be about $520 mil. It means the payment rate is about $552 mil per year.

If it's $8 bil (Rafale + Scorpene), 10 years term, 2% pa interest rate, the interest total will be about $833 mil. It means the payment rate is about $883 mil per year.

France to sell Egypt 30 fighter jets in $4.5 bln deal -Egyptian defense ministry, report

Egypt has signed a contract with France to buy 30 Rafale fighter jets, its defence ministry said in a statement early on Tuesday, in a deal that investigative website Disclose said on Monday was worth 3.75 billion euro ($4.5 billion).

www.reuters.com

France Bank Lending Rate, 2003 – 2021 | CEIC Data<br><br>

France Bank Lending Rate was reported at 1.330 % pa in Aug 2021. This records an increase from the previous number of 1.320 % pa for Jul 2021.

www.ceicdata.com

 

[wekiweko]

single engine multirole vs two engine air superiority or multirole
it's a totally different species with a different function

sure they will got more problems by babysitting 2 things, but this new one is dedicated for the this that the F16 just not that good at.

and about the embargo, lets just face it, we already make a mistake by signing that CAATSA.
i mean, neutral and yet signing thing that say i agree to not to do things against u, my friend, when u have a long lasting conflict with my other friend???
-_-

and now we can be nothing more but a good little brother to him.

CAATSA is not an agreement, it is a set of regulation issued by the USA that has extra judicial consequences.