Poland K239 Chunmoo Rocket Launcher System for Poland

[urban mine]

Urban Mine I see you're from Korea. Can you confirm or deny that Korea is currently planning to develop 300mm missiles for the Chumoo MLRS, instead of building 400mm missiles?

That's right, the image released on Twitter was captured from a promotional video made in 2019.

The image was recently released by Hanwha Aerospace. In the middle is the Chunmoo Guided Missile-II, a 300mm missile. The 400mm missile in the initial plan seems to have been canceled.

I am asking because Poland has been working on this caliber for some time, which may indicate that we will be making 300mm missiles together.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691076737377968128

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693908176536478103

This is the first time I've seen a missile made by Poland. Thanks for sharing. As you say, I think there is a possibility of collaboration. But I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Chocopie]

Hanwha Aerospace Polish „Homar-K“ (newest K239 launcher system on Jelcz vehicle) send-off ceremony video with EN subtitles:

The 300 mm development is so far a purely domestic Korean project, don‘t think that DAPA and ADD want any foreign involvement. Hanwha on the other side as the main production company might think otherwise of getting Poles on board … commercial interests.

Edit: original YT-clip replaced by Hanwha

 

[steelfec]

That's right, the image released on Twitter was captured from a promotional video made in 2019.
View attachment 60390
The image was recently released by Hanwha Aerospace. In the middle is the Chunmoo Guided Missile-II, a 300mm missile. The 400mm missile in the initial plan seems to have been canceled.


This is the first time I've seen a missile made by Poland. Thanks for sharing. As you say, I think there is a possibility of collaboration. But I'm not so sure about that.

In that case, I serve a short discussion of the topics of Poland and its rockets.

Although few people are aware of it, even in Poland, Polish rocket artillerymen celebrated last year or are celebrating this year, depending on how you count it, their bicentenary.

http://portal.muzeum.brodnica.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/OTO_DNI_KRWI_I_CHWALY-LAKAT-2.jpg

Here is some information about the prehistory of Polish rocket artillery, unfortunately only in Polish. http://portal.muzeum.brodnica.pl/ot...-rakietnicy-krolestwa-polskiego-wystawa/3404/

https://polska-obrona.pl/Mobile/ArticleShow/37947

In the times of People's Poland, the greatest achievement in the field of rocket construction was the Meteor 2K rocket. This rocket in 1970 reportedly reached the conventional limit of space.

https://www.fahrenheit.net.pl/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/il_meteor-2k.jpg

The successor of the Meteor 2K rocket, i.e. the Meteor 2M rocket, was already in the boxes and was waiting for assembly and then the flight, unfortunately, however, this program was canceled by our then big brother from Moscow. Poles will have to wait over half a century to reach the conventional boundary of space again. But once we get down to it, we're going wide.

Currently, three teams in Poland are preparing to reach the Kármán Line.
The first team is the Institute of Aviation from Warsaw, the same one that built and launched the Meteor 2K rocket in 1970. Their latest racket is called Amber 2K. Yes, this 2K refers to Meteor 2K. This rocket is powered by a hybrid engine and has a diameter of 230mm.

https://triasrnd.com/system/images/1270/big/2k.png?1589282915

Completely unrelated to the case, I will add that the same institute, with funds allocated by the Polish Ministry of National Defense, is developing a 227mm solid fuel engine. But why?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1625150002271059969

Another Polish rocket preparing to conquer the Kármán Line is the Three-Stage Suborbital Rocket (Trójstopniowa Rakieta Suborbitalna) called TRS or TRS-300. Here is a video of the test firing of her engine.

It was about this rocket that I wrote in the previous post. This rocket is a civilian rocket, and even the fact that two of the three entities from the consortium that builds it have the word "military" in their names, and the third, before the war in Ukraine, supplied the Ukrainians with fuel for their ATGM missiles.

Therefore, it is probably pure coincidence that the representatives of the consortium building this rocket say that it is possible to build both ground-to-ground and ground-to-air missiles on its basis. https://www.polska-zdrowna.pl/home/articleshow/38137?t=MSPO-Rakietowe-aspiracje-WITU Let me just add that the Ukrainian Wilcha missile, popular in Poland, has a caliber of 300mm, and the missiles purchased by Poland under the Wisła program PAC-3 MSE, are 305mm in diameter. So will the British-Polish CAMM MR anti-aircraft missile have a caliber of about 300 mm? I don't know that, and this time I'm writing it without a trace of irony.

As I mentioned, there is also a third civilian rocket in Poland, which is preparing to attack the conventional space border. It is a 450mm Perun rocket. For those who want to better visualize the diameter of this rocket, I will add that the American PrSM rocket, currently being developed for HIMARS systems, is to have a caliber of 17 inches, i.e. ~ 432mm. So I assume that now each of you has a better idea of what a 450mm caliber is.
The Perun rocket is another Polish rocket with a hybrid engine.

Oh, as everyone knows, every self-respecting civilian rocket with no aspirations to become a ballistic has its engine thrust vectoring system.

At least that's what you could say until last year's MSPO, the largest arms industry fair in Poland. It turns out that then a mock-up of the Perun missile with a solid fuel engine was shown. Representatives of the company that builds Perun also declared that the solid fuel engine already exists and the construction of a military version of Perun is an offer of their company for the Polish army. https://antyweb.pl/polskie-technologie-rakietowe-na-mspo

I don't remember the other two or three rockets with calibers larger than Perun, which Poland makes alone or in cooperation with other countries. Or in other words, I read something about this number in various places while making rocket/missile OSINT, but isn't there something more? I don't know. There is certainly work being done on rockets smaller than the Moskit.
https://twitter.com/TrompBK/status/1633167349267288064?s=20
https://twitter.com/SteelFec/status/1693210965762879572?s=20

Anyway, the deletion of the Meteor program took us away from space for half a century. But we're just getting back to where we belong.

P.S.: The Polish variant of the Grad rockets is called Feniks (Phoenix). The currently developed version of the 122mm Feniks can reach >40km. Reportedly, a version reaching > 60 km is also planned. A version with such a long range, however, will probably need even the simplest flight correction systems ... which are also being developed in Poland. https://twitter.com/covax_/status/1625148265673924610?s=20

Unless someone decides that 40 km is enough for us, and greater ranges will be achieved with missiles of larger calibers.

 

[steelfec]

Hanwha Aerospace Polish „Homer-K“ (newest K239 launcher system on Jelcz vehicle) send-off ceremony video with EN subtitles:

The 300 mm development is so far a purely domestic Korean project, don‘t think that DAPA and ADD want any foreign involvement. Hanwha on the other side as the main production company might think otherwise of getting Poles on board … commercial interests.

The interest of companies is important, but it is the result of agreements at the political level. If the Polish artillery in one salvo will be able to fire over 1000 containers from K239, HIMARS, etc. then we are talking about the non-nuclear equivalent of the atomic bomb. Something like this changes the geopolitics of Central Europe. The change in the balance of power in Central Europe means a change in the balance of power between the west and the east of Eurasia.

My point is that both junior partners of the United States in Eurasia, i.e. Poland and Korea, had to have the full consent of the United States for such projects. This transaction has its business significance, but its main dimension is geopolitical. Especially in times of breakthrough that we have now. The fact that there was such consent is evidenced by the fact that the second supplier of our rocket artillery, tanks, etc. is the United States.

My point is that in such a large game, the reluctance of a mid-level official may not be enough to block things.

 

[Chocopie]

The interest of companies is important, but it is the result of agreements at the political level. If the Polish artillery in one salvo will be able to fire over 1000 containers from K239, HIMARS, etc. then we are talking about the non-nuclear equivalent of the atomic bomb. Something like this changes the geopolitics of Central Europe. The change in the balance of power in Central Europe means a change in the balance of power between the west and the east of Eurasia.

My point is that both junior partners of the United States in Eurasia, i.e. Poland and Korea, had to have the full consent of the United States for such projects. This transaction has its business significance, but its main dimension is geopolitical. Especially in times of breakthrough that we have now. The fact that there was such consent is evidenced by the fact that the second supplier of our rocket artillery, tanks, etc. is the United States.

My point is that in such a large game, the reluctance of a mid-level official may not be enough to block things.

The reluctance ain‘t political it‘s commercial. Hanwha or South Korea doesn‘t need any technological input from Poland for advanced rocket and missile development. Why bother getting foreign companies, i.e. potential competitors involved?

Poland can get ToT of existing arms in mass production for domestic assembly and pay for it (it‘s business and not a geopolitical strategy as you implied). Don’t believe all the friendly marketing speeches and common democratic values blah blah.

Korean MIC doesn’t need Polish expertise in any form. They‘re selling Warsaw weapon technology that Poles don’t get transferred from allies like Germany, France or US because of trade secret policy. And Korean companies are attracting major deals with vague offers of future „collaboration“ and „cooperation“

 

[urban mine]

In that case, I serve a short discussion of the topics of Poland and its rockets.

Although few people are aware of it, even in Poland, Polish rocket artillerymen celebrated last year or are celebrating this year, depending on how you count it, their bicentenary.

http://portal.muzeum.brodnica.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/OTO_DNI_KRWI_I_CHWALY-LAKAT-2.jpg

Here is some information about the prehistory of Polish rocket artillery, unfortunately only in Polish. http://portal.muzeum.brodnica.pl/ot...-rakietnicy-krolestwa-polskiego-wystawa/3404/

https://polska-obrona.pl/Mobile/ArticleShow/37947

In the times of People's Poland, the greatest achievement in the field of rocket construction was the Meteor 2K rocket. This rocket in 1970 reportedly reached the conventional limit of space.

https://www.fahrenheit.net.pl/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/il_meteor-2k.jpg

The successor of the Meteor 2K rocket, i.e. the Meteor 2M rocket, was already in the boxes and was waiting for assembly and then the flight, unfortunately, however, this program was canceled by our then big brother from Moscow. Poles will have to wait over half a century to reach the conventional boundary of space again. But once we get down to it, we're going wide.

Currently, three teams in Poland are preparing to reach the Kármán Line.
The first team is the Institute of Aviation from Warsaw, the same one that built and launched the Meteor 2K rocket in 1970. Their latest racket is called Amber 2K. Yes, this 2K refers to Meteor 2K. This rocket is powered by a hybrid engine and has a diameter of 230mm.

https://triasrnd.com/system/images/1270/big/2k.png?1589282915

Completely unrelated to the case, I will add that the same institute, with funds allocated by the Polish Ministry of National Defense, is developing a 227mm solid fuel engine. But why?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1625150002271059969

Another Polish rocket preparing to conquer the Kármán Line is the Three-Stage Suborbital Rocket (Trójstopniowa Rakieta Suborbitalna) called TRS or TRS-300. Here is a video of the test firing of her engine.

It was about this rocket that I wrote in the previous post. This rocket is a civilian rocket, and even the fact that two of the three entities from the consortium that builds it have the word "military" in their names, and the third, before the war in Ukraine, supplied the Ukrainians with fuel for their ATGM missiles.

Therefore, it is probably pure coincidence that the representatives of the consortium building this rocket say that it is possible to build both ground-to-ground and ground-to-air missiles on its basis. https://www.polska-zdrowna.pl/home/articleshow/38137?t=MSPO-Rakietowe-aspiracje-WITU Let me just add that the Ukrainian Wilcha missile, popular in Poland, has a caliber of 300mm, and the missiles purchased by Poland under the Wisła program PAC-3 MSE, are 305mm in diameter. So will the British-Polish CAMM MR anti-aircraft missile have a caliber of about 300 mm? I don't know that, and this time I'm writing it without a trace of irony.

As I mentioned, there is also a third civilian rocket in Poland, which is preparing to attack the conventional space border. It is a 450mm Perun rocket. For those who want to better visualize the diameter of this rocket, I will add that the American PrSM rocket, currently being developed for HIMARS systems, is to have a caliber of 17 inches, i.e. ~ 432mm. So I assume that now each of you has a better idea of what a 450mm caliber is.
The Perun rocket is another Polish rocket with a hybrid engine.

Oh, as everyone knows, every self-respecting civilian rocket with no aspirations to become a ballistic has its engine thrust vectoring system.

At least that's what you could say until last year's MSPO, the largest arms industry fair in Poland. It turns out that then a mock-up of the Perun missile with a solid fuel engine was shown. Representatives of the company that builds Perun also declared that the solid fuel engine already exists and the construction of a military version of Perun is an offer of their company for the Polish army. https://antyweb.pl/polskie-technologie-rakietowe-na-mspo

I don't remember the other two or three rockets with calibers larger than Perun, which Poland makes alone or in cooperation with other countries. Or in other words, I read something about this number in various places while making rocket/missile OSINT, but isn't there something more? I don't know. There is certainly work being done on rockets smaller than the Moskit.
https://twitter.com/TrompBK/status/1633167349267288064?s=20
https://twitter.com/SteelFec/status/1693210965762879572?s=20

Anyway, the deletion of the Meteor program took us away from space for half a century. But we're just getting back to where we belong.

P.S.: The Polish variant of the Grad rockets is called Feniks (Phoenix). The currently developed version of the 122mm Feniks can reach >40km. Reportedly, a version reaching > 60 km is also planned. A version with such a long range, however, will probably need even the simplest flight correction systems ... which are also being developed in Poland. https://twitter.com/covax_/status/1625148265673924610?s=20

Unless someone decides that 40 km is enough for us, and greater ranges will be achieved with missiles of larger calibers.

Thanks for the kind post. It was a great way to get an overview of Polish rocket history. I'm starting to get interested

 

[steelfec]

Korean MIC doesn’t need Polish expertise in any form.

Allow me, my friend, to verify a bit your lofty optimism and belief in your own awesomeness. K2 is a good tank, but for Korea. It was created to act in the Korean theater of operations. It is said that the geography of Korea determines the fight in the valleys, and therefore the armor of the turret is greatest from the front. The rest of the turret armor can be compared to the antique T-72s we are scrapping in Ukraine right now. If it wasn't for the situation in the region, no one would ever buy a K2 tank in the version we acquired for Poland. Suffice it to say that the biggest enthusiast of the K2PL tank is the Korean industry, which would like to use Polish money to develop a tank that meets the needs of the European theater of operations. Ultimately, the purchased K2s were located in a forest region with a large number of lakes, which we hope will channel the movement of a possible opponent similarly to Korean valleys. However, further purchase of K2 tanks in the version currently obtained from Korea is not planned, as these tanks are only a gap-filler for us. And to be clear, Korea is good, but not the best at everything. Your industry is also interested in certain tank solutions developed in Poland and developed for another, and to put it bluntly, a real tank battlefield.

When it comes to K9, the situation is identical. If the purchases were made not as a result of an urgent need resulting from the short-sightedness of our politicians, but, for example, as a result of competitive conduct, then K9 would never have been purchased by Poland. The reason is prosaic and similar to the situation with K2. K9 is set in the realities of Korea and only Korea. Any example? For example, that the K9 does not fire any 155mm ammunition owned by Poland, except Korean. Unlike the K9, the Krab fires everything from outdated Italian rounds produced shortly after World War II to the most advanced American guided rounds.

The reason that the current politicians started talking about the production of K9 in Poland was prosaic. The Krab has German components, which means that Germany has the ability to block its export. The Ukrainians reportedly asked about the Krab even before the war, but those were the times when Germany even blocked the deliveries of small arms from third countries to Ukraine. That is why the topic was dropped then, and now Polish decision-makers want to get out of dependence on German industry, just as we have moved away from dependence on Russian industry. And as for K9, it is the Korean side that announces its willingness to implement some solutions from Krab in the next versions of K9, because they have proven themselves in Ukraine. Well, why do you need it, if you don't need "Polish expertise" as you write, because you have the technology.

You're saying that Korea already knows everything about rocket artillery and doesn't need anything from anyone, especially from Poland? And what is the Korean doctrine of the use of artillery, and can it be translated into the realities of the European theater of operations, or is it once again an island solution that can be fully applied only on the Korean peninsula? The Polish doctrine of artillery operations assumes that Polish artillery will always have lower firepower, which is why it must be faster, more accurate and more mobile. A decade ago, the Polish military believed that our guided missiles must be able to guide themselves to targets without GPS, because Russia may have the ability to jam such networks. Does the South Korean military also believe that North Korea will be able to jam US and other GPS systems? Do you have fuels that do not smoke in our climate, so as not to reveal the position of the launcher, and at the same time fuels that comply with NATO standards? And how are your technologies of thin-walled rocket bodies? Looking at the ranges of your 130mm rockets, which fly closer than our 122mm rockets, pretty bad.


I will also write to you about some Polish expertise, which of course will seem unimportant and negligible to you. The Polish experience from the war in Ukraine is, among other things, that it is very important to have the ability to switch your equipment to the ammunition provided by the Allies. And it's not just 155mm ammo. That is why a representative of the Korean industry lobbied the Polish media for the Polish side to lead to a situation where Korean ammunition could be fired from HIMARS, and American ammunition from K239. However, I think that the guy was made with Polish vodka and Polish expertise. After all, why K239 compatibility with American containers and American ammunition, if Korea has the leading technology?

Yes, yes, we currently need technology and know-how transfers, because our missile designs still require few years of work, and we do not have that time. We have to quickly rebuild the stock of all types of ammunition. What's more, our production plants, which were supposed to help produce these missiles, will be built in a 12-18 months, but they were designed for times of peace, not war preparations. Therefore, it is already known that their production capacity will be too small.

You look down on us because you'd be so kind as to sell us your missile technology? Don't worry, there will be two factories, the second one will be built together with the Americans. Well, unless it turns out that, as you write, Korea made vague offers of future "collaboration" and "cooperation". Then we will build one bigger factory, but not a Korean one. You won't sell us a license for K2PL? It's okay, there are talks about an extensive Abrams assembly line in Poland with the big participation of the Polish industry. You won't give us a K9 or won't sell the engines? No problem, we recently signed an agreement with Renk's America on cooperation on large engines. In addition, Cummins is in the process of launching its plant for adapting large engines for special tasks in Poland. In addition, PGZ, a state-owned consortium of the defense industry, is on the right track to buy out an internal combustion engine factory. The engines produced in this factory may be small, but the factory is the size of a small town. There will be qualified specialists, place, licenses and we can do it too.

So it's not like that, my friend, that you have the right to look down on us. If someone thinks that Poland hangs on Korea, it's mostly him. If Korea wants to make a big deal and start to count on European and NATO markets, we'll get along. Otherwise, there is at least one alternative to Korean on our table in any case. At least one. It's just in case Korean vague offers.

 

[Afif]

Soon there gonna be a war here……

 

[steelfec]

Soon there gonna be a war here……

Not on my part. For me, it's EoT. The facts are what they are. Poland is not in an ideal negotiating position, but none of the countries with which it negotiates technology transfers has such a position either. So you can either accept the facts or inflate your ego against the facts. I only paid attention to the facts once. Then it would be a waste of my time. So EoT on my part.

 

[Chocopie]

Allow me, my friend, to verify a bit your lofty optimism and belief in your own awesomeness. K2 is a good tank, but for Korea. It was created to act in the Korean theater of operations. It is said that the geography of Korea determines the fight in the valleys, and therefore the armor of the turret is greatest from the front. The rest of the turret armor can be compared to the antique T-72s we are scrapping in Ukraine right now. If it wasn't for the situation in the region, no one would ever buy a K2 tank in the version we acquired for Poland. Suffice it to say that the biggest enthusiast of the K2PL tank is the Korean industry, which would like to use Polish money to develop a tank that meets the needs of the European theater of operations. Ultimately, the purchased K2s were located in a forest region with a large number of lakes, which we hope will channel the movement of a possible opponent similarly to Korean valleys. However, further purchase of K2 tanks in the version currently obtained from Korea is not planned, as these tanks are only a gap-filler for us. And to be clear, Korea is good, but not the best at everything. Your industry is also interested in certain tank solutions developed in Poland and developed for another, and to put it bluntly, a real tank battlefield.

When it comes to K9, the situation is identical. If the purchases were made not as a result of an urgent need resulting from the short-sightedness of our politicians, but, for example, as a result of competitive conduct, then K9 would never have been purchased by Poland. The reason is prosaic and similar to the situation with K2. K9 is set in the realities of Korea and only Korea. Any example? For example, that the K9 does not fire any 155mm ammunition owned by Poland, except Korean. Unlike the K9, the Krab fires everything from outdated Italian rounds produced shortly after World War II to the most advanced American guided rounds.

The reason that the current politicians started talking about the production of K9 in Poland was prosaic. The Krab has German components, which means that Germany has the ability to block its export. The Ukrainians reportedly asked about the Krab even before the war, but those were the times when Germany even blocked the deliveries of small arms from third countries to Ukraine. That is why the topic was dropped then, and now Polish decision-makers want to get out of dependence on German industry, just as we have moved away from dependence on Russian industry. And as for K9, it is the Korean side that announces its willingness to implement some solutions from Krab in the next versions of K9, because they have proven themselves in Ukraine. Well, why do you need it, if you don't need "Polish expertise" as you write, because you have the technology.

You're saying that Korea already knows everything about rocket artillery and doesn't need anything from anyone, especially from Poland? And what is the Korean doctrine of the use of artillery, and can it be translated into the realities of the European theater of operations, or is it once again an island solution that can be fully applied only on the Korean peninsula? The Polish doctrine of artillery operations assumes that Polish artillery will always have lower firepower, which is why it must be faster, more accurate and more mobile. A decade ago, the Polish military believed that our guided missiles must be able to guide themselves to targets without GPS, because Russia may have the ability to jam such networks. Does the South Korean military also believe that North Korea will be able to jam US and other GPS systems? Do you have fuels that do not smoke in our climate, so as not to reveal the position of the launcher, and at the same time fuels that comply with NATO standards? And how are your technologies of thin-walled rocket bodies? Looking at the ranges of your 130mm rockets, which fly closer than our 122mm rockets, pretty bad.


I will also write to you about some Polish expertise, which of course will seem unimportant and negligible to you. The Polish experience from the war in Ukraine is, among other things, that it is very important to have the ability to switch your equipment to the ammunition provided by the Allies. And it's not just 155mm ammo. That is why a representative of the Korean industry lobbied the Polish media for the Polish side to lead to a situation where Korean ammunition could be fired from HIMARS, and American ammunition from K239. However, I think that the guy was made with Polish vodka and Polish expertise. After all, why K239 compatibility with American containers and American ammunition, if Korea has the leading technology?

Yes, yes, we currently need technology and know-how transfers, because our missile designs still require few years of work, and we do not have that time. We have to quickly rebuild the stock of all types of ammunition. What's more, our production plants, which were supposed to help produce these missiles, will be built in a 12-18 months, but they were designed for times of peace, not war preparations. Therefore, it is already known that their production capacity will be too small.

You look down on us because you'd be so kind as to sell us your missile technology? Don't worry, there will be two factories, the second one will be built together with the Americans. Well, unless it turns out that, as you write, Korea made vague offers of future "collaboration" and "cooperation". Then we will build one bigger factory, but not a Korean one. You won't sell us a license for K2PL? It's okay, there are talks about an extensive Abrams assembly line in Poland with the big participation of the Polish industry. You won't give us a K9 or won't sell the engines? No problem, we recently signed an agreement with Renk's America on cooperation on large engines. In addition, Cummins is in the process of launching its plant for adapting large engines for special tasks in Poland. In addition, PGZ, a state-owned consortium of the defense industry, is on the right track to buy out an internal combustion engine factory. The engines produced in this factory may be small, but the factory is the size of a small town. There will be qualified specialists, place, licenses and we can do it too.

So it's not like that, my friend, that you have the right to look down on us. If someone thinks that Poland hangs on Korea, it's mostly him. If Korea wants to make a big deal and start to count on European and NATO markets, we'll get along. Otherwise, there is at least one alternative to Korean on our table in any case. At least one. It's just in case Korean vague offers.

Wooow, my apologies if my post was unintentionally negative. I‘m well aware of Polish defense industry capabilities but was only stating my opinion, that Korea‘s MIC doesn‘t need joint development with Poland for weapon technology projects to reach their defense or commercial goals.

Never said that Korean arms are the best or best suited for Polish needs. Can‘t see a win-win-situation to gain from joint developments. I don‘t think the oversized procurement and production plans of the current Polish administration will be realized in the future.

But that‘s my personal view not a general Korean opinion.

 

[steelfec]

Wooow, my apologies if my post was unintentionally negative. I‘m well aware of Polish defense industry capabilities but was only stating my opinion, that Korea‘s MIC doesn‘t need joint development with Poland for weapon technology projects to reach their defense or commercial goals.

Never said that Korean arms are the best or best suited for Polish needs. Can‘t see a win-win-situation to gain from joint developments. I don‘t think the oversized procurement and production plans of the current Polish administration will be realized in the future.

But that‘s my personal view not a general Korean opinion.

Okay, then I'm sorry too. Maybe I overreacted to your post.

 

[Chocopie]

All good, man, ! A certain level of technological cooperation between both countries just by adapting existing Korean and integrating Polish systems like Topaz BMS is already ongoing.

Thinking about language barriers, cultural differences and working on a joint weapon system development from two opposite ends of the world: neither easy nor efficient.

Also wondering how UK, Italy and Japan will work together on the 6th gen GCAP/FCAS project in the next years.

 

[Chocopie]

Homar-K test fired in Korea:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694998739838996918

„At the training ground in South Korea the first shootings from the Homar-K #Chunmoo system took place. Polish artillerymen training in took part in the shooting.“

ROKMC live fire of 239 mm rocket during „Talisman Sabre“ exercise in Australia:

K239 Chunmoo deployed in UAE:

„Secretly“ exported to Saudi Arabia:

 

[steelfec]

As part of the offset for the Wisła II program, i.e. the second part of the program for the purchase of Patriot batteries by Poland, it is planned to acquire, among others, competencies for the production of large missile engines.

Quote 1: "As part of the second phase of the Wisła program, 8 offset commitments were negotiated with Lockheed Martin and 5 offset commitments with Raytheon Technologies. The companies of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa, which were involved in their implementation, will acquire the capacity to manufacture and service Wisła system components, as well as a new advanced omnidirectional radar of the lower tier of the air defense system (Lower Tier Air and Missile Defense Sensor), also known as the Raytheon LTAMDS radar, or other military equipment important from the point of view of national defense. The HWIL Laboratory will be built on the basis of Lockheed Martin offset projects, and the Laboratory itself will be used in the modernization and development of new Polish missiles or in missile projects that will be launched in cooperation with foreign entities.
The LM offset is also a transfer of the ability to design and manufacture solid fuel engines for larger caliber missiles."
https://grupapgz.pl/umowy-offsetowe-w-ramach-ii-fazy-programu-wisla-podpisane/

Quote 2: "The Minister pointed out that these commitments concern, among others, the possibility of producing fuel for HIMARS missiles. He reminded that Poland was negotiating another contract for HIMARS missiles for the Polish Army."
https://www.tvp.info/72252992/szef-...nty-do-przeciwlotniczych-i-przeciwrakietowych

Quote 3: "In the case of contracts concluded with Lockheed Martin, the implementation of the offset will allow, among others, for further development of the HWIL Laboratory, which is already under construction, which is being built on the basis of offset projects from the first phase of the Wisła program, and the Laboratory itself will be used in the modernization and development of new Polish missiles or in missile projects that will be launched in cooperation with foreign entities. The offset from Lockheed Martin also includes the transfer of the ability to design and manufacture solid fuel engines for larger caliber missiles (the head of the Ministry of National Defense mentioned the ability to produce fuel for HIMARS missiles, implicitly GMLRS)."

Umowy offsetowe na II fazę programu Wisła podpisane - DziennikZbrojny.pl

 

[steelfec]

This thread is about the Homar-K program, but it's really just a slice of the pie. In Poland, nowadays everything is connected to everything.

There are two artillery programs, Homar and Langusta II. The Homar program is divided into two suppliers, because according to the words of the Minister of National Defense of Poland, the Americans were not able to meet our order within the deadlines expected by Poland. That is why the Homar program currently has two endings A and K. At the same time, the Langusta II program is in progress. This name refers to the Langusta program, i.e. the program of placing BM-21 Grad sets on Jelcz trucks.

Just a few months ago, it was quite officially said that Langusta II would be a program to deploy Turkish Bora/Khan missiles in Jelcz together with a Turkish container system, which in fact can accept many different types of containers. From the current statements, however, it can be inferred that something has changed and now it is probably more about dedicating Langusta II to the needs of cheap and mass-produced unguided rockets, which could provide high fire saturation at close ranges. But will that happen? Nothing is known for sure today. Maybe in a few days we'll find out something during the MSPO arms fair, or maybe we'll have to wait even longer.

Importantly, the team that is currently negotiating the procurement of missile artillery, both with foreign and domestic suppliers, was given this task as an additional task. Originally, this team was formed for the needs of the Wisła program, and then Wisło-Narew.
Attention, now the difficulty level of my post will start to increase.

The Wisła program is a program for the purchase of Patriot systems, i.e. the medium-range MRAD system. It was divided into two stages, Wisła I and Wisła II. One of the reasons for dividing this program into two stages was that the Polish Ministry of Defense considered the then Patriot radar to be obsolete and not meeting the requirements of our battlefield.

Due to the fact that at that stage the Americans were at the stage of formulating the requirements for the new Patriot system radars, and Poland wanted to purchase a total of 8 Patriot system batteries, two fire units for each battery, which in times of peace was considered a large order, the Polish requirements were taken into account in American proceedings. Thus, the new American Patriot radar gained the requirement of omnidirectional observation and its transceiver modules had to be made in Gallium Nitride technology. Perhaps Poland had other expectations of this radar, but this information was not leaked to the press.

The Narew program is a program for the construction of a lower level of air defense, i.e. SHORAD short-range air defense. This program is to be based on Polish radars, Polish command cabins, Polish communications ... There is a statement in the media, which may or may not be a simplification, that the Narew will be a fully Polish system in which the only exported element, although produced in Poland under license, there will be a missile. These rackets are a family of CAMM rackets (CAMM, CAMM ER, CAMM MR), which I will write about in a moment.

One of the tasks of the Narew system is to protect the Wisła system with cheaper effectors. Hence the need to connect these systems. And so we come to Wisło-Narew. In practice, the Narew program in this branch will boil down to the inclusion of Polish elements in the Patriot system via IBCS, in which they will constitute equal components with the components of the Patriot system. It can therefore be said that in the Polish variant, Patriot will also become the SHORAD system, with Narew as the executive elements. Together with the Narew, Patriot will also gain the ability to use radars that have no equivalents in the Patriot environment, such as the Polish PET-PCL, P-18PL and Warta radars.

If we disable the components of the Narew program that use the CAMM missile and connect them with the Polish VSHORAD very short-range air defense system code-named Pilica, we will obtain the Pilica+ program. The Pilica+ system will be based on the Polish command system, Polish 23mm cannons, and probably also Polish 35mm cannons. In addition, it will have CAMM missiles. It is also said that it may also be equipped with the Polish Grzmot missile, which has not yet been revealed, but which is most likely currently being developed. The Pilica+ system will be dedicated to the defense of stationary targets, such as civil and military critical infrastructure.

The mobile VSHORAD system, which is to be based on barreled systems and probably on the Grzmot missile, will be called Sona. His task will be to protect the army during the march and during the fight. At this point, as with the Langusta II program, we are waiting for more details about it.

In order not to make the whole situation too simple, this one multi-project also includes elements of the program of the Polish frigates Miecznik. For the Miecznik program, which will be a twin of the British Type 31 frigates, only much more heavily armed, the CAMM MR missile with a range of over 100 km is to be developed jointly by Great Britain and Poland. The assumption is that two such missiles will fit into one chamber of the Mk 41 launcher. The Mk41 launchers are to be mounted on the Polish Mieczniks. It is very likely that the CAMM MR missile will eventually also go to the Wisła batteries, as a replacement for the SkyCeptor missile, which did not turn out to be a low-cost solution, as originally announced by the American side.

So as you can see, from the Polish perspective, other than from the perspective of this thread dedicated to the Homar-K program, there is no such thing as a separate Homar-K program with autonomous logic. There is one big modernization program for Polish missile capabilities, both in the field of defense and attack. The Homar-K program is just one element of a larger whole.

 

[MaciekRS]

Could this be 600 mm for Chunmoo?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698726692754203040

 

[steelfec]

The MSPO defense industry fair in Poland, the most important fair of this type in this part of Europe, starts tomorrow. For today, we only see leaks.
The Polish institute WITU subordinate to the Ministry of National Defense, together with two companies belonging to the largest state-owned armaments group, will most likely show their proposals for 300 and 600 mm caliber missiles.

Is this presentation related to the fact that a few days ago it was announced that Lockheed Martin will help build a large-caliber rocket engine production line in Poland as part of the offset for the Wisła II program? It is difficult to judge at the moment, although it cannot be ruled out.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698581506552156188

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698726692754203040

The larger of the missiles is to have a caliber of 600 mm, a length of 3960 mm and a warhead weighing 450 km, capable of being carried over a distance of 290 km.

 

[steelfec]

Could this be 600 mm for Chunmoo?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698726692754203040

No, it's a fragment of a 300mm missile.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698746353583641010

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698757476051456175

 

[steelfec]

Homar-A & Homar-K on the MSPO fairs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698754548762903003

Homar-A has already been placed on the new version of Jelcz. It is likely that Homar-K will eventually also get this type of new chassis, only with 8x8 and not 6x6.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698692908826739057

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698654526096417088

 

[steelfec]

If this information is confirmed, a 239mm missile factory will be built in Poland in the joint venture formula. This factory would produce over 10,000 239mm missiles, which in the case of the size of the Polish order for launchers may mean contracting the purchase of missiles for 3 salvos. This is objectively little, looking at the number of contracted launchers, not the number of contracted missiles. Therefore, this agreement should probably be seen more as the beginning, not the end, of an "missile adventure".

In addition, 122mm rockets are to be integrated with the K239 systems.

MSPO 2023: Rakiety z Korei do produkcji w Polsce. Rakiety z Polski wystrzelą z koreańskich wyrzutni

**PGZ i Hanwha Aerospace podpisały porozumienie, które ma wesprzeć realizację drugiej umowy wykonawczej na wyrzutnie K239 Chunmoo (Homar-K) wraz z pociskami kierowanymi. Porozumienie określa zasady transferu technologii do Polski rakiet kierowanych kalibru 239 mm i samej wyrzutni. Z kolei...

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