TR Libya Operations & Updates

Kartal1

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Messages
4,469
Reactions
81 16,760
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Giorgia Meloni visited General Haftar in Libya and they was talking about military Cooperation. This shows to me that the Italians can not be trusted on Libya.

Italians are an actor that moves according to their interests. They can meet anyone and nobody should be shocked about it. They are not aligned to any party of this conflict no matter how positive their stance is towards the UN recognized government. While we should aim at increasing the cooperation with Italy in Libya we should always take extra measures due to the facts listed previously.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
1,692
Reactions
61 7,671
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Italians are an actor that moves according to their interests. They can meet anyone and nobody should be shocked about it. They are not aligned to any party of this conflict no matter how positive their stance is towards the UN recognized government. While we should aim at increasing the cooperation with Italy in Libya we should always take extra measures due to the facts listed previously.

Indeed. To add, not like we’re not talking with LNA.
From last month:

“The Director General of the Libya Development and Reconstruction Fund, appointed by the House of Representatives, Belgassim [son of Haftar], signed contracts with Turkish companies to implement several projects in Benghazi”

I would very much like to know what is the continued Turkish policy re Libya. Now that any EEZ operations and drilling in the region on our side is also halted.
 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,615
Reactions
4 3,866
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Italians are an actor that moves according to their interests. They can meet anyone and nobody should be shocked about it. They are not aligned to any party of this conflict no matter how positive their stance is towards the UN recognized government. While we should aim at increasing the cooperation with Italy in Libya we should always take extra measures due to the facts listed previously.
Opportunism is an invitation of Italians. You will never see such illoyal and backboneless behaviour again.
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,132
Reactions
65 7,615
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
@Kartal1 I always thought what if through a highly secretive assassination program MIT takes out Hafter and Assad? They are literally the head of the snake. I don't think their system is coherent enough to hold out after they are killed. Leading to a rapid internal friction and subsequent collapse.
 

Kartal1

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Messages
4,469
Reactions
81 16,760
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Kartal1 I always thought what if through a highly secretive assassination program MIT takes out Hafter and Assad? They are literally the head of the snake. I don't think their system is coherent enough to hold out after they are killed. Leading to a rapid internal friction and subsequent collapse.
This would be the easiest to do, but I think the repercussions of such an act would be big. They both are important people and more or less are internationally recognized representatives of their supporters.

Even in the harshest fights there are some rules which should not be crossed. In the case of Israel or the US the situation is different of course, because as we know the justice system established right now is working for the higher bidder and the guy with the biggest... rifle. As we know Turkiye is nowhere near these two in terms of bidding capacity and rifle length, Turkiye also don't have the international support which would at least soften the reaction. Highly secretive in our times is not so highly secretive after all and our enemies can also breach the rules and start hunting for our people around the world. This kind of intelligence war is extremely tiring and it will be sucking resources that could be used for something else.

In the case of Hafter it may work, but it is not a good thing to breach the etiquette as we know Hafter is connected to foreign intelligence services as well. In the case of Assad I don't think this would bring the wanted result. Syria is basically ruled by Assad family and the Muhabberat (military intelligence, air forces intelligence). It is a mafia State. For example they are one of the biggest producers and exporters of drugs in the Middle East right now. The State is controlled by many powerful people with big businesses and international connections. Even by some chance Assad dies, there will be another one that will take his place. It is an already established system.

If we put aside the international reaction we should carefully analyze the results and we should calculate the next moves because this will not end with their death. We should see who are the possible alternatives that would come to their places and if it would be better, worst and what is the possibility for exploitation. If such a thing didn't happen till now there is possibly a reason behind it. Hafter was actually close to his end...

BTW the Turkish Intelligence already has experience in making big booms in Syria from the times of Ocalan. Our guys are not worse, but better from these times :)
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,132
Reactions
65 7,615
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
This would be the easiest to do, but I think the repercussions of such an act would be big. They both are important people and more or less are internationally recognized representatives of their supporters.

Even in the harshest fights there are some rules which should not be crossed. In the case of Israel or the US the situation is different of course, because as we know the justice system established right now is working for the higher bidder and the guy with the biggest... rifle. As we know Turkiye is nowhere near these two in terms of bidding capacity and rifle length, Turkiye also don't have the international support which would at least soften the reaction. Highly secretive in our times is not so highly secretive after all and our enemies can also breach the rules and start hunting for our people around the world. This kind of intelligence war is extremely tiring and it will be sucking resources that could be used for something else.

In the case of Hafter it may work, but it is not a good thing to breach the etiquette as we know Hafter is connected to foreign intelligence services as well. In the case of Assad I don't think this would bring the wanted result. Syria is basically ruled by Assad family and the Muhabberat (military intelligence, air forces intelligence). It is a mafia State. For example they are one of the biggest producers and exporters of drugs in the Middle East right now. The State is controlled by many powerful people with big businesses and international connections. Even by some chance Assad dies, there will be another one that will take his place. It is an already established system.

If we put aside the international reaction we should carefully analyze the results and we should calculate the next moves because this will not end with their death. We should see who are the possible alternatives that would come to their places and if it would be better, worst and what is the possibility for exploitation. If such a thing didn't happen till now there is possibly a reason behind it. Hafter was actually close to his end...

BTW the Turkish Intelligence already has experience in making big booms in Syria from the times of Ocalan. Our guys are not worse, but better from these times :)

You are right, I know. This type of James bond style hit on a head of state is not practical today. (Even though technically very much possible.) But I can't stop entertain the idea. Specially when it comes to Assad, he is no less evil than Netanyahu. Caused so much suffering and horror.
 

BaburKhan

Well-known member
Messages
321
Reactions
5 721
Website
www.instagram.com
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Germany
Italians are an actor that moves according to their interests. They can meet anyone and nobody should be shocked about it. They are not aligned to any party of this conflict no matter how positive their stance is towards the UN recognized government. While we should aim at increasing the cooperation with Italy in Libya we should always take extra measures due to the facts listed previously.
The worst Case is when they would Act with France together. They are close Libya and the former Colonial Power in this Country. For this Reason they will see for their own Advantages.

It's important to deter any Action against our Interests by the foreign Powers.


 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,190
Reactions
22 18,827
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
Türkiye needs to make positive moves everyday in Libya, more positive imaging and promotion. Leaving it to others is not an option. And if we don’t have the right team to focus solely on Libya and get distracted by other happenings then we’re bound to lose.

our enemies and so called allies are pushing their own agenda everrytime we fail to keep an eye with things or dumb government moves resources elsewhere.

something like, “oh this libya team is good, I will move them to work in Iraq or Palestine” kinda dumb things
 

BaburKhan

Well-known member
Messages
321
Reactions
5 721
Website
www.instagram.com
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Germany
Türkiye needs to make positive moves everyday in Libya, more positive imaging and promotion. Leaving it to others is not an option. And if we don’t have the right team to focus solely on Libya and get distracted by other happenings then we’re bound to lose.

our enemies and so called allies are pushing their own agenda everrytime we fail to keep an eye with things or dumb government moves resources elsewhere.

something like, “oh this libya team is good, I will move them to work in Iraq or Palestine” kinda dumb things

Iraq is also important for us, there is a Terror Corridor which make it impossible to strengthen the Trade with the arab Gulf States. If Iraq is cleaned from Terorists we can establish Rail and Highways.

Libya is not anymore less important, it's close to straight of Sicily.

 

Kartal1

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Messages
4,469
Reactions
81 16,760
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Türkiye needs to make positive moves everyday in Libya, more positive imaging and promotion. Leaving it to others is not an option. And if we don’t have the right team to focus solely on Libya and get distracted by other happenings then we’re bound to lose.

our enemies and so called allies are pushing their own agenda everrytime we fail to keep an eye with things or dumb government moves resources elsewhere.

something like, “oh this libya team is good, I will move them to work in Iraq or Palestine” kinda dumb things
The worst Case is when they would Act with France together. They are close Libya and the former Colonial Power in this Country. For this Reason they will see for their own Advantages.

It's important to deter any Action against our Interests by the foreign Powers.


What is in the middle of the cooperation between the UN recognized government and Italy are the business opportunities and the fight against illegal migration. In the case of France we are talking about different interests. They look at the situation more from a strategic perspective within the concept of their leadership in the EU, Greece and the importance of natural resources in the Mediterranean. What we can do in Libya is to provide training and oversee the work of the armed forces, coast guard, the police and intelligence services in order to deter criminal gangs, improve the security situation in the country and prevent corruption.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,190
Reactions
22 18,827
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
Iraq is also important for us, there is a Terror Corridor which make it impossible to strengthen the Trade with the arab Gulf States. If Iraq is cleaned from Terorists we can establish Rail and Highways.

Libya is not anymore less important, it's close to straight of Sicily.


What is in the middle of the cooperation between the UN recognized government and Italy are the business opportunities and the fight against illegal migration. In the case of France we are talking about different interests. They look at the situation more from a strategic perspective within the concept of their leadership in the EU, Greece and the importance of natural resources in the Mediterranean. What we can do in Libya is to provide training and oversee the work of the armed forces, coast guard, the police and intelligence services in order to deter criminal gangs, improve the security situation in the country and prevent corruption.
What I meant was to literally have task force for those countries and allocate resources to improve things.

Libya would need a dedicated task force due to being further away. Something like US CENTCOM Africa and such.

we don’t have an economy to allocate properly, but that is also why we need more than the just bare minimum Naval force and such. navy is and have always been important to protect our interest. The British empire is the best proof of that.

while Iraq being in our backyard doesn’t Require more than what we’re doing. What I was hinting at was not to be poor judge and move good task force from one region to another, and allow people to be specialized and professional at that region.

it’d be comparable with being bad manager/leader and toss excessive resource into one region due to being impatient and poor judgement call.
 

Kartal1

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Messages
4,469
Reactions
81 16,760
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
What I meant was to literally have task force for those countries and allocate resources to improve things.

Libya would need a dedicated task force due to being further away. Something like US CENTCOM Africa and such.

we don’t have an economy to allocate properly, but that is also why we need more than the just bare minimum Naval force and such. navy is and have always been important to protect our interest. The British empire is the best proof of that.

while Iraq being in our backyard doesn’t Require more than what we’re doing. What I was hinting at was not to be poor judge and move good task force from one region to another, and allow people to be specialized and professional at that region.

it’d be comparable with being bad manager/leader and toss excessive resource into one region due to being impatient and poor judgement call.
You're spot on. Not long ago I expressed the same concerns as you and just as you say I expressed my view and wishful thinking regarding the role of the Navy in Turkiye's oversea operations.

I want to reiterate my position on these matters and my position is that Navy should take bigger responsibility when it comes to overseas operations, stabilizing efforts, FID and military assistance operations. Our Navy carries great importance when it comes to the diplomatic representation of our country and I think it also should take a bigger role in our expeditions. We have great potential with the existence of our Amphibious Brigade. Our Amphibious Brigade also has its own SOF (AHT) which can be effectively utilized in providing support especially when it comes to FID operations.

Our Navy's fleet is getting stronger and our power projection potential will be on a totally different level post 2030. Together with this I expect that our Amphibious Brigade gets more attention, the personnel numbers increased if needed and the Brigade being better equipped and trained. If we manage to convert our Amphibious Brigade to fully fledged expedition force I think our efforts in countries like Somalia, Libya and Qatar will be more effective and a big burden will fall off the shoulders of our Land Forces. With this capability very serious task forces could be established wherever we need them while we keep the capacity of our Land Forces higher, enabling their expertise to be used wherever is needed.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,190
Reactions
22 18,827
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
You're spot on. Not long ago I expressed the same concerns as you and just as you say I expressed my view and wishful thinking regarding the role of the Navy in Turkiye's oversea operations.

I want to reiterate my position on these matters and my position is that Navy should take bigger responsibility when it comes to overseas operations, stabilizing efforts, FID and military assistance operations. Our Navy carries great importance when it comes to the diplomatic representation of our country and I think it also should take a bigger role in our expeditions. We have great potential with the existence of our Amphibious Brigade. Our Amphibious Brigade also has its own SOF (AHT) which can be effectively utilized in providing support especially when it comes to FID operations.

Our Navy's fleet is getting stronger and our power projection potential will be on a totally different level post 2030. Together with this I expect that our Amphibious Brigade gets more attention, the personnel numbers increased if needed and the Brigade being better equipped and trained. If we manage to convert our Amphibious Brigade to fully fledged expedition force I think our efforts in countries like Somalia, Libya and Qatar will be more effective and a big burden will fall off the shoulders of our Land Forces. With this capability very serious task forces could be established wherever we need them while we keep the capacity of our Land Forces higher, enabling their expertise to be used wherever is needed.

I agree, but if we start diversifying too much we'll just fail on all "fronts". I think it's important to expand closer to our waters and increase our influence from there. Hence LIbya, and KKTC is priority, and you can probably tell the kind of bad media coverage we'll be facing when we make these moves. So I'd say that Libya being further away, but still close, would be a better starting point.

I think TN needs at least 2 OPV and 1 I-class for the role of sailing to and from Libya, as we help LIbya build up a Coast Guard of sorts. Big and slow Vessels to properly guard their EEZ from foreign enemies.
 

Follow us on social media

Latest posts

Top Bottom