TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

[Glass🚬]

While I understand where you’re coming from. I have to point out that for politicians or the west it all boils down to this. Mahmur is a UN refugee camp thus they reject any allegation of terrorist organization operates from the camps.

When you are faced with this kind of myogenic you can present them all the evidence you have, they will simply reject it.

This is standard western procedure. Look at the link I provided on YPG changing name.

I can guarentee you that if Osama Bin Laden had changed name to charlie, they would still have hunted him down. Even if alqaeda changed name to flower boys... double standards.

Don’t get annoyed over it, just find a way to destroy their plans.

Bro, its irrelevant for me as how they classify it, fact is with such statements they are backing the pkk and thats how I understand it and -how we have to understand it- because of the reason u stated.

Either they are with us or with the PKK and they picked the PKK. It will not grant them anything geopolitically but thats the US and their way of thinking, there is a reason why when we think of the US we think of a declining power.

 

[Glass🚬]

My intuition is from FSA to YPG, US was looking for a proxy to achieve its own goals in Syria. It is not interested in helping the PKK win against Turkey at all, instead has been hindering the PKK for decades. It does not aid PKK in Northern Iraq at all.


It indirectly supports the PKK by supporting the SDF, but makes efforts to curb PKK influence. Their current strategy is promoting the arab components of the SDF. The YPG do diffuse support with the PKK and YPG is led by former PKK. That is why the Americans have been trying hard with the Barzani talks, because they want to secure this entity in North East Syria and remove PKK where they can. The idealogy stuff does not bother them. Barzani to North East Syria is a good base for containing Iran and with Barzani in control, limits any threat to Turkey.


AKP/MHP do not like this plan. Both for domestic politics, but also because of the developing idealogy stuff, which I think is the real threat. There are millions of Kurds across the border that perceive Turkey negatively and now learn in Kurdish from school to university. They are sympathetic to Kurdish movements. America is not supporting this idealogy, they are there for their logistics and containing Iran, preventing Assad from having the oil. They do not care which proxy is capable of doing so, which is why they started with the FSA first before turning to the YPG. FSA collapsed, split into groups that joined with YPG and groups that went over to be sponsored by Turkey. SDF and SNA formed.


Turkey does not care about the small arms, PKK is hopelessly outmatched no matter how many AK's they take. But idealogically, this is the threat. Because logistics and support. America could do anything to ensure the security of Turkey and here I think there would still be an issue. Because these people exist. It's not just the Ocalan posters. America is not about to start anti-Ocalan camps now with their proxy, the same way we are not strictly vetting the SNA. We have these SNA as retainers because it geopolitically benefits us, but we do not support their cause. Erdogan does not care about beating Assad, only keeping the refugees at bay and dismantling the SDF, because of this idealogy. Since the SNA has been formed they have been prevented from taking ground from Assad and focussed on the SDF.


I think if America supported the PKK against Turkey, they could just delist them and that would be the biggest catastrophe. But no, they undermine them where they can. Syria and Iraq are a huge black market for weapons, this is not exactly something they can control. My complaint is, there is this huge perception that west actively sponsors PKK against Turkey, which I can agree with indirectly. But directly ? Russia and the East have always been the biggest sponsors. Yet they receive so much better coverage in this regard, while relations with America only recently decreased to the point where information sharing stopped as well.


Regarding Membic, America does not trust Turkey or what plans are with the areas it has. Secondly, Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it. Like it is complicated. I imagine if there was a better relationship with trust, America would have wanted Turkey directly in the fight from the start.


One to watch is China, they are establishing themselves with Barzani and I wonder how they will be with the PKK.

This guy is white washing the PKK again, smh. The tolerance lvl tho.

 

[Saithan]

Bro, its irrelevant for me as how they classify it, fact is with such statements they are backing the pkk and thats how I understand it and -how we have to understand it- because of the reason u stated.

Either they are with us or with the PKK and they picked the PKK.

Absolutely, but considering how much hostility we’ve garnered in US senate and in the western world. We need to rebuild our value. Both militarily but also ideologically because th western countries identify with ideology.

Oh we can see the double standards. But we have to be the good ally. The one that says no or it’s wrong and take the long road. Thankfully our defense industry has reached a point where we can do it. But it’s better to have your allies with you than against you.

National unity is very importand and should be on the agenda every day

 

[Test7]

Dear @Akhtar ;

Do we agree that pkk and ypg are a terrorist organization?

 

[kimov]

My intuition is from FSA to YPG, US was looking for a proxy to achieve its own goals in Syria. It is not interested in helping the PKK win against Turkey at all, instead has been hindering the PKK for decades. It does not aid PKK in Northern Iraq at all.


It indirectly supports the PKK by supporting the SDF, but makes efforts to curb PKK influence. Their current strategy is promoting the arab components of the SDF. The YPG do diffuse support with the PKK and YPG is led by former PKK. That is why the Americans have been trying hard with the Barzani talks, because they want to secure this entity in North East Syria and remove PKK where they can. The idealogy stuff does not bother them. Barzani to North East Syria is a good base for containing Iran and with Barzani in control, limits any threat to Turkey.


AKP/MHP do not like this plan. Both for domestic politics, but also because of the developing idealogy stuff, which I think is the real threat. There are millions of Kurds across the border that perceive Turkey negatively and now learn in Kurdish from school to university. They are sympathetic to Kurdish movements. America is not supporting this idealogy, they are there for their logistics and containing Iran, preventing Assad from having the oil. They do not care which proxy is capable of doing so, which is why they started with the FSA first before turning to the YPG. FSA collapsed, split into groups that joined with YPG and groups that went over to be sponsored by Turkey. SDF and SNA formed.


Turkey does not care about the small arms, PKK is hopelessly outmatched no matter how many AK's they take. But idealogically, this is the threat. Because logistics and support. America could do anything to ensure the security of Turkey and here I think there would still be an issue. Because these people exist. It's not just the Ocalan posters. America is not about to start anti-Ocalan camps now with their proxy, the same way we are not strictly vetting the SNA. We have these SNA as retainers because it geopolitically benefits us, but we do not support their cause. Erdogan does not care about beating Assad, only keeping the refugees at bay and dismantling the SDF, because of this idealogy. Since the SNA has been formed they have been prevented from taking ground from Assad and focussed on the SDF.


I think if America supported the PKK against Turkey, they could just delist them and that would be the biggest catastrophe. But no, they undermine them where they can. Syria and Iraq are a huge black market for weapons, this is not exactly something they can control. My complaint is, there is this huge perception that west actively sponsors PKK against Turkey, which I can agree with indirectly. But directly ? Russia and the East have always been the biggest sponsors. Yet they receive so much better coverage in this regard, while relations with America only recently decreased to the point where information sharing stopped as well.


Regarding Membic, America does not trust Turkey or what plans are with the areas it has. Secondly, Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it. Like it is complicated. I imagine if there was a better relationship with trust, America would have wanted Turkey directly in the fight from the start.


One to watch is China, they are establishing themselves with Barzani and I wonder how they will be with the PKK.

This kind of reply just confirm your affinity for PKK.

You find all the excuses for USA and PKK for their actions while disregarding legitimate Turkish interest. You also use typical divide-and-conquer tactics by bringing up AKP when every Turk agree that America is supporting PKK in Syria, Iraq and Iran by their direct actions, indirect actions or non-actions since 30 years (they have been occupying Iraq for 30 years if you missed it). If that is not working, you bring a whataboutism (china in this case) to see if you can get some support from someone. Just get this clear, Turks do not support PKK whereever they are, be it in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Brussels or Washington. We will fight to the last one of them dies, period.

Also, what the f* do you mean by "Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it". Membic was literally given to Assad/Russia by the American military just to prevent Turkey. Do I need to explain that Russia also have been actively supporting PKK since 80s?

 

[Akhtar]

Yeah ?

Dear @Akhtar ;

Do we agree that pkk and ypg are a terrorist organization?

Yes, this was not what I was talking about in my debate

 

[Akhtar]

This guy is white washing the PKK again, smh. The tolerance lvl tho.

No I'm not, I'm explaining what I think is the US position.

 

[Akhtar]

This kind of reply just confirm your affinity for PKK.

You find all the excuses for USA and PKK for their actions while disregarding legitimate Turkish interest. You also use typical divide-and-conquer tactics by bringing up AKP when every Turk agree that America is supporting PKK in Syria, Iraq and Iran by their direct actions, indirect actions or non-actions since 30 years (they have been occupying Iraq for 30 years if you missed it). If that is not working, you bring a whataboutism (china in this case) to see if you can get some support from someone. Just get this clear, Turks do not support PKK whereever they are, be it in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Brussels or Washington. We will fight to the last one of them dies, period.

Also, what the f* do you mean by "Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it". Membic was literally given to Assad/Russia by the American military just to prevent Turkey. Do I need to explain that Russia also have been actively supporting PKK since 80s?

Also, what the f* do you mean by "Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it". Membic was literally given to Assad/Russia by the American military just to prevent Turkey. Do I need to explain that Russia also have been actively supporting PKK since 80s?

America clearly wants to draw Turkey into wider conflict with Russia, they'll use the SDF to do it as well. Russia is at all the major points of contact with Turkey. This is good for America. There are many analysts in washington who discuss cooperation between Turkey and Russia, but also many who say they are at odds. America wants to make sure the relationship is damaged.

You also use typical divide-and-conquer tactics by bringing up AKP when every Turk agree that America is supporting PKK in Syria, Iraq and Iran by their direct actions, indirect actions or non-actions since 30 years (they have been occupying Iraq for 30 years if you missed it). If that is not working, you bring a whataboutism (china in this case) to see if you can get some support from someone.

Well you tell me how effective the AKP-MHP strategy has been and how it differs from what CHP would do? I was not discussing what the average Turk thinks. I think its obvious from my previous posts I am against AKP. I personally think the PKK is mainly a domestic problem. There is one good thing the AKP managed, this was during the peace process to move the PKK to the north of Iraq.

 

[Ryder]

Also, what the f* do you mean by "Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it". Membic was literally given to Assad/Russia by the American military just to prevent Turkey. Do I need to explain that Russia also have been actively supporting PKK since 80s?

America clearly wants to draw Turkey into wider conflict with Russia, they'll use the SDF to do it as well. Russia is at all the major points of contact with Turkey. This is good for America. There are many analysts in washington who discuss cooperation between Turkey and Russia, but also many who say they are at odds. America wants to make sure the relationship is damaged.

You also use typical divide-and-conquer tactics by bringing up AKP when every Turk agree that America is supporting PKK in Syria, Iraq and Iran by their direct actions, indirect actions or non-actions since 30 years (they have been occupying Iraq for 30 years if you missed it). If that is not working, you bring a whataboutism (china in this case) to see if you can get some support from someone.

Well you tell me how effective the AKP-MHP strategy has been and how it differs from what CHP would do? I was not discussing what the average Turk thinks. I think its obvious from my previous posts I am against AKP. I personally think the PKK is mainly a domestic problem. There is one good thing the AKP managed, this was during the peace process to move the PKK to the north of Iraq.

Peace process just put pkk back to health not to mention got our soldiers and policeman killed. They even killed innocent civilians in this bullshit ceasefire.

How did the pkk assault Sirnak and Cizre due to the peace process as years went by as the pkk nursed themselves back to health and went on with an asaault by trying to take a city along with a province. The Siege of Kobani along with the Kurdish riots emboldened the pkk to attack. The biggest factor was the peace process as the pkk believed the Turks wont fight due to a ceasefire.

Akp cucking to the pkk and other terrorist groups nearly costed the country.

 

[Ecderha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401809963761217537

 

[Oublious]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401980536873177090

 

[Glass🚬]

No I'm not, I'm explaining what I think is the US position.

Well, It's one thing to attempt to explain the US viewpoints another to purposely to try to make a distinction of the kck groups. You tried the latter and should be banned for this.

 

[Lool]

Peace process just put pkk back to health not to mention got our soldiers and policeman killed. They even killed innocent civilians in this bullshit ceasefire.

How did the pkk assault Sirnak and Cizre due to the peace process as years went by as the pkk nursed themselves back to health and went on with an asaault by trying to take a city along with a province. The Siege of Kobani along with the Kurdish riots emboldened the pkk to attack. The biggest factor was the peace process as the pkk believed the Turks wont fight due to a ceasefire.

Akp cucking to the pkk and other terrorist groups nearly costed the country.

If the AKP didnt try talks first, the international media would just say that the turks are war-mongering infidels and should be cleaned (not that they arent saying this now but it will be worse)
I remember the defense minister once saying, we tried to extend a hand and make peace, and they used it to kill innocent civilians;thus, no mercy
It is a good excuse to fall back to tbh and post some pics of the civilians who died and voila the international media chills out a bit

 

[Combat-Master]

Turkey urges neighbors to stop supporting PKK terrorists​

Turkey’s Defense Ministry called on the global community to stop their support for the PKK and its offshoots in Syria and Iraq, after the terrorist group killed five Kurdish Peshmerga soldiers in an attack Saturday.

“By attacking the Peshmerga, the PKK/KCK/YPG has once again shown that it poses the greatest threat to peace and stability in the region,” the ministry said in a statement, adding that the terrorists have shown that they cannot represent the Kurdish people.

The ministry continued by saying that friendly nations should especially see the true face of the PKK/KCK/YPG terrorists and stop providing assistance, especially weapons and ammunition.

“Turkey is ready to completely eliminate this treacherous and bloody terrorist organization, which brings nothing but instability, blood and tears to the region until the last terrorist is neutralized and is ready to cooperate with its neighbors regarding the matter,” the ministry said. Turkish authorities often use the term “neutralized” in statements to imply that the terrorists in question surrendered, were killed or captured.

Turkey urges neighbors to stop supporting PKK terrorists

Turkey’s Defense Ministry called on the global community to stop their support for the PKK and its offshoots in Syria and Iraq, after the terrorist group...

www.dailysabah.com

 

[Kartal1]

I mean I agree. But these are laws that would have to come into play. It's not the same as saying they directly finance or arm the PKK, which is serious accusations. Remember when damn Time magazine reported on the ISIS gift shop in Istanbul and people started saying Turkey supported ISIS ?

My comment was mainly that the US has not supported the PKK within Turkey at all, at any point, rather it has supported Turkey. Externally, there is the YPG. It's a different game.

I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.

The US is gaining something by using the YPG which they couldn't using the FSA. The YPG shares idealogies with the PKK and can be said to be the PKK.

But the West doesn't see it that way. The US has always supported Turkey during the war with the PKK internally (NATO involvement), but in Syria are attempting something else. I don't think they intentionally support the PKK at all. Constantly printing media articles linking US to PKK harms the relationship I think.

If you are looking at PKK and YPG as something different you immediately can see yourself as deceived. PKK and YPG are part of the same structure. Command, logistics, human resources it is all coordinated. You are asking if US directly supports PKK but in what context? If you try to reach a legal outcome it will not happen. The cooperation between PKK and the US is going on trough middle men and underground cooperation schemes. It is not like Biden will go to Kandil, eat Lavas with honey and give all the intelligence support and the weapons while making a press conference in support of PKK.

Distinguishing the support to YPG from the one to PKK is not a right approach. It is not a different game. It is the same exact game on a different front. If you accept that it is not a same game you accept that YPG and PKK are not the same thing. The man on top of YPG is a high ranked PKK terrorists that fought in Iraq against the Turkish State. He is a man that commanded the YPG to cross into Turkey in order to conduct suicide attacks and take part in the 2015-2016 city operations. If that is not PKK then what is it?

We also have a badly controlled border crossing between the north of Syria and north of Iraq. I think shouldn't remind you that we captured and killed many high ranking PKK terrorist on the road to Duhok from Sinjar. We killed or packet PKK terrorists in Syria. It would be naive to think that the cooperation is ongoing without the knowledge and consent of the US but what they can do? Can you imagine the US to demand YPG to cut ties with PKK but the real way not just some statements to please Turkey? This is not imaginable because it is like asking a child to cut ties with its mother. And why should they want to cut the relationship? Some of the potent commanders of YPG are "ex" mountain rats from Iraq.

On the question does the US directly supports PKK my answer would be the following. No the US does not support PKK (the fighters in Iraq) directly because it is not the right way to support such an organization in such a way. There are different types of professionals tasked to create the needed contacts in order to eliminate the need of direct contacts by officials. The US supports PKK trough middlemen mainly responsible for the logistics and intelligence works in Syria and Iraq. Firearms acquisition is a basic thing to do in Iraq. MANPADs acquisition is not done just like that. There is a tight control in the black market for such systems. It is mainly supplied by State actors trough non-State actors. Is it directly? Of course not!

There are many things we are not able to see from our chairs but thanks God there are people that are watching and listening for us 24/7. Thanks to these people we are packaging terrorists directly involved into the US-YPG-PKK cooperation on the way to their destinations and we also killed many terrorists on the spot. There is a reason why they gave us Ocalan. There is also a reason why they don't give us Cemil Bayik but give or not we will take what is ours.

 

[GoatsMilk]

@Cabatli_53 @MisterLike It really has become annoying at this point to constantly refute his false claims which he does on purpose, if u read trough the discussion now u will see that hes not here to have a normal discussion but to troll, bait the people here.

There is now one way, either u will bann him or he will continue to spread misinformation which will have a negative effect on the Forum sooner or later.

The guy could be Feto affiliated or pkk sympathiser. No way to explain his attitude, next he will be asking us to prove water is wet and that the suns surface is hot.

The YPG is the Syrian arm of the PKK, the americans are their biggest "DIRECT" supporter. The americans are not so dumb as to know what they are working with and who they keep threatening Turkey not to fight.

 

[Akhtar]

If you are looking at PKK and YPG as something different you immediately can see yourself as deceived. PKK and YPG are part of the same structure. Command, logistics, human resources it is all coordinated. You are asking if US directly supports PKK but in what context? If you try to reach a legal outcome it will not happen. The cooperation between PKK and the US is going on trough middle men and underground cooperation schemes. It is not like Biden will go to Kandil, eat Lavas with honey and give all the intelligence support and the weapons while making a press conference in support of PKK.

Distinguishing the support to YPG from the one to PKK is not a right approach. It is not a different game. It is the same exact game on a different front. If you accept that it is not a same game you accept that YPG and PKK are not the same thing. The man on top of YPG is a high ranked PKK terrorists that fought in Iraq against the Turkish State. He is a man that commanded the YPG to cross into Turkey in order to conduct suicide attacks and take part in the 2015-2016 city operations. If that is not PKK then what is it?

We also have a badly controlled border crossing between the north of Syria and north of Iraq. I think shouldn't remind you that we captured and killed many high ranking PKK terrorist on the road to Duhok from Sinjar. We killed or packet PKK terrorists in Syria. It would be naive to think that the cooperation is ongoing without the knowledge and consent of the US but what they can do? Can you imagine the US to demand YPG to cut ties with PKK but the real way not just some statements to please Turkey? This is not imaginable because it is like asking a child to cut ties with its mother. And why should they want to cut the relationship? Some of the potent commanders of YPG are "ex" mountain rats from Iraq.

On the question does the US directly supports PKK my answer would be the following. No the US does not support PKK (the fighters in Iraq) directly because it is not the right way to support such an organization in such a way. There are different types of professionals tasked to create the needed contacts in order to eliminate the need of direct contacts by officials. The US supports PKK trough middlemen mainly responsible for the logistics and intelligence works in Syria and Iraq. Firearms acquisition is a basic thing to do in Iraq. MANPADs acquisition is not done just like that. There is a tight control in the black market for such systems. It is mainly supplied by State actors trough non-State actors. Is it directly? Of course not!

There are many things we are not able to see from our chairs but thanks God there are people that are watching and listening for us 24/7. Thanks to these people we are packaging terrorists directly involved into the US-YPG-PKK cooperation on the way to their destinations and we also killed many terrorists on the spot. There is a reason why they gave us Ocalan. There is also a reason why they don't give us Cemil Bayik but give or not we will take what is ours.

Distinguishing the support to YPG from the one to PKK is not a right approach. It is not a different game. It is the same exact game on a different front. If you accept that it is not a same game you accept that YPG and PKK are not the same thing. The man on top of YPG is a high ranked PKK terrorists that fought in Iraq against the Turkish State. He is a man that commanded the YPG to cross into Turkey in order to conduct suicide attacks and take part in the 2015-2016 city operations. If that is not PKK then what is it?

It's a different game in that I do not think the US is supporting the YPG (Syrian PKK) against Turkey but for their own agenda in Syria, otherwise they could do far more. I am sure they do not support PKK directly in Northern Iraq. Not that these are different groups, from what I have seen the US attempting to promote arab groups and non-PKK affiliated groups in the SDF and the Barzani talks. They are attempting to peel them off from the PKK. Then there is the Pentagon and CIA doing the indirect stuff you mentioned.

On the question does the US directly supports PKK my answer would be the following. No the US does not support PKK (the fighters in Iraq) directly because it is not the right way to support such an organization in such a way. There are different types of professionals tasked to create the needed contacts in order to eliminate the need of direct contacts by officials. The US supports PKK trough middlemen mainly responsible for the logistics and intelligence works in Syria and Iraq. Firearms acquisition is a basic thing to do in Iraq. MANPADs acquisition is not done just like that. There is a tight control in the black market for such systems. It is mainly supplied by State actors trough non-State actors. Is it directly? Of course not!

I think we came from different roads to the same conclusion. Thank you for the answer. I disagree it is directly as well but they have created the space for these groups.

The guy could be Feto affiliated or pkk sympathiser. No way to explain his attitude, next he will be asking us to prove water is wet and that the suns surface is hot.

The YPG is the Syrian arm of the PKK, the americans are their biggest "DIRECT" supporter. The americans are not so dumb as to know what they are working with and who they keep threatening Turkey not to fight.

If by attitude you mean questioning the media, it is healthy to question especially with what has happened. AKP and Perincek has big control over the media. I am still suspicious over Cananda and the drone for example. I looked, it is possible to get multi-frequency cards from Ali Baba Express:

1299.99US $ |For Trimble BD970 four star multi frequency high precision centimeter level RTK card GNSS UAV precision agriculture monitoring|Aerials| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[GoatsMilk]

This guy is white washing the PKK again, smh. The tolerance lvl tho.

Whose paying you? Be honest with us.

 

[Akhtar]

Whose paying you? Be honest with us.

It's Perincek. clearly by criticizing him I am actually building up support for him.

You know, the guy with a real interest in demonizing the west and breaking Turkey away from the west, influential with Erdogan, organized huge China-Turkey economic conferences in May 2019 attended by AKP businessmen and partners. The one where Ethem Sancak, close friend of Erdogan said Turkey and China are “bound to each other” and that the responsibility for building the new international system humanity needs lays on the shoulders of the Turks and the Chinese. The one where billionaire Murat Ülker said that “as the world is becoming divided into two parts, in favor and against China, we are all on China’s side”.

 

[Ryder]

Dogu Perincek the same guy who called Bashar Al Assad as Syria's own Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

Its really sad how this joke of a man has so much power in the government.