TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Tornadoss]

What makes you think we can’t shoot Shaheeds at 100km distance? The operational envelope of Eren states, 100+ km engagement range.
The turbojet engine that propels it is supposed to give it fairly high speed. It can sustain this speed for 15+ minutes. At 600km/hr speed that means 150+ km range. At 400km/hr it means 100km range.

Shaheed drones travel at 180km/hr. Eren could easily run after it and catch it up. But in most cases it will probably go for it head on, which will increase the engagement range.

Wouldn't you need a visual confirmation to shot it down?

 

[I_Love_F16]

What makes you think we can’t shoot Shaheeds at 100km distance? The operational envelope of Eren states, 100+ km engagement range.
The turbojet engine that propels it is supposed to give it fairly high speed. It can sustain this speed for 15+ minutes. At 600km/hr speed that means 150+ km range. At 400km/hr it means 100km range.

Shaheed drones travel at 180km/hr. Eren could easily run after it and catch it up. But in most cases it will probably go for it head on, which will increase the engagement range.

Wouldn’t it be hard to lock it and shoot it at such a distance ? Knowing it’s size and it’s relatively lower speed ?

 

[boredaf]

Knowing it’s size and it’s relatively lower speed ?

Eren is specifically advertised against low speed aerial targets, why would the target's slow speed be a problem when it is designed against it?

Edit: It also has a imaging infrared seeker, you don't need to lock onto anything and Eren is capable of detecting, tracking and engaging targets according to Aselsan, so, 100 km engagement of something like a Shahed isn't that far fetched.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Wouldn’t it be hard to lock it and shoot it at such a distance ? Knowing it’s size and it’s relatively lower speed ?

No not really. It has an IIR seeker. Optically it will track and recognise its target. It will lock on to the IR shape of the target.

How an IIR Seeker Functions:

Thermal Imaging (Focal Plane Array): Modern IIR seekers use a grid of sensors (focal plane array) that detect thermal radiation


Passive Detection: They do not emit energy (unlike radar), making them "passive," meaning the target often cannot detect it is being tracked.

Lock-on and Tracking: Before launch, the seeker "locks" onto a specific thermal shape. During flight, the guidance system continuously analyzes the image to keep the target centered.

Distinguishing from Decoys: Due to high-resolution imaging, IIR systems can distinguish between an aircraft's engine heat and decoy flares, making them significantly harder to deceive than older infrared technologies.

Such high-precision munition systems typically utilize a combination of advanced optical and thermal methods to achieve a "lock".

 

[begturan]

Bayraktar Akinci achieves first air-to-air kill with EREN loitering munition - Türkiye Today

Bayraktar Akinci UCAV destroys Shahed-type target drone using EREN loitering munition in first air-to-air kill

www.turkiyetoday.com

Last month Baykar and Roketsan carried out a test firing of a missile named Eren.
This is a very important turning point in slower UCAVs being used in air to air and air to ground combat from stand off distances and a game changer against kamikaze type drones as well as any low flying slow subsonic air breathing platforms with it’s indigenous jet engine.

Eren has shown that it has high precision. With over 15 minutes flight and more than 100km range it can be used against any moving or stationary armoured or non armoured ground targets as well as low flying UAVs including kamikaze drones. Although a price has not been set, it is specifically designed to be economically used against cheap drones as well as more expensive aircrafts.

Akinci finally found it’s ideal stand off attack missile that it can carry in large numbers.

We look forward to it being delivered to TSK in sizeable quantities soon as well as large export numbers of TB3 and Akinci UCAVs.

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Why haven't we seen any Gökdoğan or Bozdoğan missile launches from the Akıncı drone to date? Will the Akıncı only be equipped with the Eren air-to-air missile? If so, why was an AESA radar integrated?

 

[Trakya_forever]

Roketsan Eren is a munition like Swiss pocket knife.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Why haven't we seen any Gökdoğan or Bozdoğa missile launches from the Akıncı drone to date? Will the Akıncı only be equipped with the Eren air-to-air missile? If so, why was an AESA radar integrated?

Bozdogan is for WVR engagements. Can you see Akinci getting in to a dogfight with a manned jet fighter? Even KE is not yet ready for Bozdogan.
Gokdogan is an expensive BVR a2a missile. Best performance is achieved when it is fired from a high speed high altitude jet fighter. Also after firing it needs to leave the area quickly. Akıncı is too slow and bulky to be able to do either. It is a waste of resources to use these missiles on Akinci. KE is the right platform for Gokdogan.

Akıncı can fire TRG-300ER and TRG-230 as well as KGK series bombs from stand off distances to take out enemy’s ground assets. To fire these the Aesa radar will be invaluable for target acquisition. It can also be used as a munition mule, especially in airspaces controlled by us.
Eren is also an ideal stand off munition it can use more effectively with an Aesa radar, but not the only one.

Regarding @Trakya_forever ’s above comment;
Eren can dive in to a tank’s turret top where the armour is weakest and take it out. So not just to hunt kamikaze drones. It can be the stand off version of MAM-L munition.

 

[boredaf]

Eren can dive in to a tank’s turret top where the armour is weakest and take it out. So not just to hunt kamikaze drones. It can be the stand off version of MAM-L munition.

Not just tanks, it would also be a great asset for counter-battery fire against enemy artillery. Even if they shoot and scoot, they are not getting out of that range if a TB2 with Eren is loitering at a safe distance behind the front line.

And I think it could be an invaluable asset for USVs. You can make a tube or canister launcher with, for example 10 Erens and put them on an USV while also sending one out with Çakır or Atmaca. Suddenly, you have a distributed threat against enemy ships, one USV carrying out a swarm attack, while the other is trying to land a killing blow. All from 80 to 150 km away perhaps. And if you happen upon an enemy helicopter or drone on the way, all the better for you.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Using ballistic missile capable of hitting moving sea targets have been discussed many times.

Problem with fast travelling ballistic missiles is attainment of a precision strike. Currently our Tayfun has a GOLIS (Go Onto Location In Space) guidance. That is for stationary targets. Roketsan gives a less than 10m CEP rating for that. We know and have seen in test that this missile can hit with less than 3m deviance which suggests a CEP rating less than 5m.
But we need that latter precision level or even better for moving targets. That is pretty hard to achieve especially if we are trying to do that whilst travelling at nearly 5 Mach speed in terminal phase.

But a Block-4 hypersonic Tayfun capable of hitting a moving ship with a speed of 5 Mach would be a devastating weapon if we could manage to manufacture it. It wouldn’t need any explosives. If it started it’s downward attack when it is at a perpendicular position to make it nearly impossible to intercept and had a penetrating head, it would rip through any ship like a knife hitting soft butter due to it’s kinetic energy.

But there are so many technical handicaps that will have to be overcome that it is a very difficult task to achieve.

 

[Sanchez]

The steel sword of the Blue Homeland, ATMACA, hit the land-coordinated target with full accuracy during a firing conducted from the TCG Burgazada platform.

With this capability, ATMACA has demonstrated in the field that it has gained effective engagement capability not only against naval targets but also against strategic targets on land.

Thanks to the integration of the national data link, the system has gained the ability to update its mission during flight; it provides high flexibility and operational superiority in dynamic operational environments.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2037599457215422653

Isn't the real issue for radar guided missiles like Atmaca being used against land targets the ground clutter? Probably will need few more tests in more realistic environments.

 

[MonteCarlo]

Isn't the real issue for radar guided missiles like Atmaca being used against land targets the ground clutter? Probably will need few more tests in more realistic environments.

Apparently it didn't use its seeker at all in this test and used only GPS + INS. So ground clutter shouldn't really affect anything except the flight path

 

[Pokemonte13]

Damm that missile flew low

 

[MonteCarlo]

Damm that missile flew low

Hopefully Akata is ready soon because a sub launched missile with these flight characteristics would be our current best deep strike asset. And would curb the ambitions of some of our over-eager neighbours

 

[Huelague]

Can a single missile or rocket sink an aircraft carrier?

 

[Sanchez]

Hopefully Akata is ready soon because a sub launched missile with these flight characteridtics would be our best deept strike asset currently. And would curb the ambitions of some of our over-eager neighbours

Sub harpoon is already in use with the navy for decades. Akata doesn't really bring much new to the table. Our subs are small, Type 209s carry about 15 munitions(8 in tubes), Type 214 should be about 16-18. Majority of these are torpedos. I believe 4 of the 8 tubes are rated for missiles. So to send 8 missiles, you need to send 2 boats. 8 missiles is not strategic.

Can a single missile or rocket sink an aircraft carrier?

Impossible, they have too many redundancies and the boat just wants to float.

 

[MonteCarlo]

Sub harpoon is already in use with the navy for decades. Akata doesn't really bring much new to the table. Our subs are small, Type 209s carry about 15 munitions(8 in tubes), Type 214 should be about 16-18. Majority of these are torpedos. I believe 4 of the 8 tubes are rated for missiles. So to send 8 missiles, you need to send 2 boats. 8 missiles is not strategic.


Impossible, they have too many redundancies and the boat just wants to float.

The official range of sub-harpoon block-II is 120km while Akata's is 250 km. And that isn't even counting the advantages of being fully in control of flight path and terminal maneuvers, your local data link and ability to re-target on the path. I wouldn't call that not bringing much to the table. 8 missiles would be more than enough to take out a key AD system in an island for example.

 

[Shtr]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2037623483509735822

It seems Akbaba will be announced as well soon.

 

[Oublious]

Did i mis something? What is Akata?

 

[AlperTunga]

@TR_123456 @boredaf imo the biggest deterence will be if we can detect, saturate and sink every kind of ship by targeting from our mainland.
Because imo the only way to successfully invade Türkiye would be by sea.
That's why ASBM versions of TAYFUN/CENK are so important for us.

Yes, we should be able to neutralize aircraft carriers for our survival. TAYFUN/CENK are very important for stationary targets like air fields, military infrastructure etc. but it is a very difficult task to hit moving targets with them. The easiest way is to use Super Simsek or Harop style drones to saturate carrier group defences and then once the defence gets weaker, attack it with ANKA-3 (or a larger version to carry more payload) type stealth drones carrying SOM-J. Of course, the numbers should be sufficient (at least 50 Anka-3 each with 2 SOM-J). For the initial saturation one would need around 500 Super Simsek (including the depletion of most air-to-air missiles of the fighter jets). These have only a range of 800km. So we either need to improve this, and/or find larger carriers for them (maybe ANKA-4). The capability to saturate the ADs of the carrier group with reasonable costs is essential. The total costs per carrier group should not exceed 500m USD. Of course, to defend those ANKA-4 we'd need to send numerous Kizilelmas as well. If each SS costs 200'000USD, then 500 of them would cost 100m USD. This is not much. As ANKA-3/4 will deliver its payload from at least 500km away from the carrier, most of them will be out of harm's way and one can also send 50 KE to protect them.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Did i mis something? What is Akata?

Sub Atmaca-> Its the same just in a capsule