Pakistan: Militants abduct and kill Shia Hazara miners in Balochistan | DW News

Nilgiri

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In Pakistan, Islamic State militants have kidnapped and murdered 11 coal miners in Balochistan Province in the country's southwest. All of the victims belong to the Shia Hazara minority.Their families have been staging a sit-in for several days – demanding strong, decisive action. The military has pledged to track down the attackers. But the Hazara community say their pleas for protection have long gone unanswered. Hundreds of Hazaras have been killed in attacks over the last decade.

 

Nilgiri

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@Saiyan0321 @Kaptaan what are your impressions/contexts of the Hazara's in Pakistan and their sustained targetting by groups like Lashkar-e-jhangvi etc? (If you feel like it ofc).

I'd like to add Gen. Musa Khan (8 year COAS under Ayub Khan admin) was Hazara.

I've been wondering if saiyan you read his books "My version" and "Jawan to General" as both are referenced quite a lot by Agha Amin?

@Joe Shearer might have something to say here too.
 

Kaptaan

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Nothing but genocide. Every Pakistani should be ashamed. This whole Hazara thing blows the fraud of "Islamic Republic". And if this is what "Islamic Republic" gives please let's have "Athiest Republic". This is far worse than the Uighur or even the Palestinian suffering. Frankly I find it disgustingly ugly and it makes me angry. No civilizd human being could look at this and not feel revolt. Can you imagine if far right began killing Pakistani's every week in UK or Germany?

There would be uproar. The sad thing is Hazara provide a far higher numbers to the the military and police then then % of population. But that does not figure in the minds of savages.

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Saiyan0321

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@Saiyan0321 @Kaptaan what are your impressions/contexts of the Hazara's in Pakistan and their sustained targetting by groups like Lashkar-e-jhangvi etc? (If you feel like it ofc).

I'd like to add Gen. Musa Khan (8 year COAS under Ayub Khan admin) was Hazara.

I've been wondering if saiyan you read his books "My version" and "Jawan to General" as both are referenced quite a lot by Agha Amin?

@Joe Shearer might have something to say here too.

There was an air marshal changezi as well. Two distinctions must be made. The hazara of quetta are not the hazara of hazara division of kpk. Both are different ethnic people. The hazara in baluchistan are normally centered around quetta and migrariins happened during the ruthless campaigns of afghan king abdur rehman on hazarajat and then new migrations happened due to taliban and their oppression on shia. Their faith is shia.

The community loved peacefully in pakistan and saw pakistan as a haven until Zia came to power and allowed for the raising of sunni militant groups and radical islamization through deobandi schools which allowed for sunni militant groups to flourish and openly target shias. They are a casualty of their faith. Soon groups like LEJ and sipah sahaba came to power and had gained massive resources and the real harm came when the taliban began to rule afghanistan but pakistan had its border opened. Alot of networks came to be that would haunt pakistan for decades to come. The hazara become easy target due to their vicinity of being in baluchistan, a region devoid of proper police administration ( can't have that otherwise the sardars would be most impacted) and the provincial administration is absolute rubbish as well. The FC is not police and cannot provide the protection nor have a network that a police, formed in thanas and tehsils can. It is far harder to target a procession of shia in punjab than it is to target miners in baluchistan.

So basically religious fundamentalism patronized by the state during Zia and carried later on through islamic laws and the constant demand for a religious definition.

You see nilgiri here is the thing. When you define a religion, you have to define it properly. So you can't just say muslim is muslim, you need to define what a muslim is and what about those that profess things differently like he shia. Can they be Muslims as well? The extremist groups make the case that if companions are infallible then the shia are committing blasphemy and should not be Muslims and If one group, like the ahmedis, could be declared kaffir then why not shia? What is so special about them?

Add this to the constant need to define muslim and then of course when you define what a muslim is then you need to define what type of muslim a citizen of pakistan is. Is he shia or sunni? And what about the state? The state had been defined as muslim but what type of muslim is it. Shia or sunni. If a person can't be shia or sunni at the same time then how can the state be both at the same time?

So basically @Kaptaan and his open declaration on the futility of such an endeavor of an islamic state. This is why most of these militant groups also declare the state as kaffir aka kaffir hakumat when they see the state trying to protect the "kaffirs".

Savages. Nothing more and nothing less.
 

Saiyan0321

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@Saiyan0321 @Kaptaan what are your impressions/contexts of the Hazara's in Pakistan and their sustained targetting by groups like Lashkar-e-jhangvi etc? (If you feel like it ofc).

I'd like to add Gen. Musa Khan (8 year COAS under Ayub Khan admin) was Hazara.

I've been wondering if saiyan you read his books "My version" and "Jawan to General" as both are referenced quite a lot by Agha Amin?

@Joe Shearer might have something to say here too.

I haven't. I will try to locate them.
 

Nilgiri

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happened during the ruthless campaigns of afghan king abdur rehman

Yes I have been reading about these lately...very sad context to their story at large.

They seem a noble well-meaning community. They look quite distinct and fascinating to me too.

Quite sad they have been targeted this way over so many years.

There was some articles I came across....they are a high prevalence (compared to %) not only in military as kaptaan says...but also professions in general like doctors etc. Its a thing you often see with minorities in general world over that have good aptitude.

But again this make their best people easy targets, there was some mass targetted assasination in KArachi at sometime in the 90s? of Hazara doctors or something. It seem very correlated to what Zia unleashed broadly like you referenced.



When you define a religion, you have to define it properly. So you can't just say muslim is muslim, you need to define what a muslim is and what about those that profess things differently like he shia.

Yes, this is the slippery slope. It is why I feel any country ought to do away it...esp at modern nationstate formation. Israel is only other one (though there is a large ethnic definition w.r.t "Jew" that overrides the religion one), and their's is very specific case that is not comparable imo (and they also have attracted major problems externally and internally by doing that).

Pakistan if it was proper separate nation historically should have defined so geographically (eg. indus river basin), and postulated that as being concept for nationhood...and just accepted every identity (religion-based or otherwise) within it as is....and simply religions/identities within it exist in whatever % they do.

There would have been no need for partition migrations...and unnatural union with Bangladesh. But it raises uncomfortable questions in the present time for most people, given now its all done and done w.r.t the defined original conception basis (with Jinnah who's mother tongue is Gujarati).

Instead religion just become something to keep defining as you said....and over time people get left out (and targetted later) simply by political expedience precedence....because cleaving and hewing across whatever seam consolidates majority or a plurality like nothing else does. Extreme majoritarianism is a politician's best situation....but a country's worst one (it entrenches into top-down collectivism at cost of bottom-up civic nationalism and the individual's inherent rights).

This has severe consequence downstream. Most people in Pakistan in the elite or layman dont think like you and Kaptaan and certainly do not action-organise at least for it....as we would see it manifest in crucial things long time ago...and they would likewise start to be corrected now, but they aren't.

Hazaras are shia and they stand out look wise lot of time on top. A particularly easy fault line for raw unprincipled power to hammer on.
 

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