TR Türkiye's Somalia Operations

Bogeyman 

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Ethiopia Mulls Scrapping Somaliland Recognition After Backlash​

  • Deal with breakaway region for sea access angered Somalia
  • US, UN urged a regional approach to de-escalate tensions

Ethiopia is considering scrapping a plan to recognize the breakaway state of Somaliland, amid international pressure to defuse regional tensions over the proposal, according to people familiar with the matter.

Landlocked Ethiopia signed an initial agreement with Somaliland in January that would make it the first nation to recognize the sovereignty of the semi-autonomous region of Somalia, in return for 50 years of access to the Gulf of Aden. The accord triggered an uproar in neighboring countries, with Somalia saying it would defend its territorial integrity and Egypt and other nations urging caution.

Ethiopian Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed and his Kenyan counterpart, William Ruto, held talks last week in Nairobi where the matter was discussed. Abiy expressed his willingness to step back from the deal’s most controversial elements in an effort to restore relations with Somalia, said the people who asked not to be identified as they’re not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

Ethiopian officials privately told foreign officials that the country may be willing to drop its recognition of Somaliland, according to five foreign officials who were briefed on Addis Ababa’s stance. Ruto also raised the matter in a meeting with Somalian President Hassan Sheikh, who was visiting Kenya at the same time as Abiy.

Ruto told Bloomberg in an interview in January that his administration was trying to “persuade Ethiopia” to consider other options beyond its demand for a port, though it’s unclear what those options are.


Ethiopia has yet to officially pull back from the deal with Somaliland, and Abiy remains keen on achieving his objective of attaining direct access to the coast, the people said.

Somaliland unilaterally declared independence from Somalia in 1991 after the eruption of a civil war. Since then, it’s been pushing for international recognition that would allow it to source foreign funding and aid. The deal with Ethiopia — long desperate for greater sea access — would take it a small step closer to achieving that aim.

Neighboring countries and some of Ethiopia’s biggest donors have expressed concern that the deal — which Somalia has said is illegal and would represent an annexation of its territory — may spark conflict in an already volatile region.

Molly Phee, the US assistant secretary of state for African affairs, told reporters on a call last month that Ethiopia should seek a deal providing it with sea access with the federal authorities in Mogadishu and not officials in Somaliland. The US and United Nations have also said the agreement may allow the Islamist militant group al-Shabaab to exploit the situation for its recruitment.

“The region can ill afford more conflict,” Phee said.

Ethiopian, Kenyan and Somali government spokespeople didn’t respond to questions about the current status of the Somaliland agreement. The Somaliland government said in a statement on Tuesday that the memorandum of understanding it signed with Ethiopia in January “signifies a positive step towards regional stability and prosperity.”

 

Bogeyman 

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According to Somali sources, Bayraktar UAVs used by the Mogadishu administration targeted a mosque in the village of Bakdad (Baghdad) near the Afgoye settlement in the Lower Shabel region during the tarawih prayer. Sources state that 18 civilians died in the attack.

Turkey urgently needs to change its policy to protect civilians in Somalia.
 

Zafer

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According to Somali sources, Bayraktar UAVs used by the Mogadishu administration targeted a mosque in the village of Bakdad (Baghdad) near the Afgoye settlement in the Lower Shabel region during the tarawih prayer. Sources state that 18 civilians died in the attack.

Turkey urgently needs to change its policy to protect civilians in Somalia.
I wonder if the reporting is accurate, it may be too easy to fabricate news. Misuse of weapons certainly undermines trust.
 

Huelague

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I wonder if the reporting is accurate, it may be too easy to fabricate news. Misuse of weapons certainly undermines trust.
Its a killiing machine, what do you expect? Even its a "AKP tool".
 

Huelague

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You are not making sense, it is a life saver that saves lives of its owners, like any other weapon. "AKP tool" ? what do you mean.
Saving lifes, by killing lifes?
What I mean with "AKP tool". You defend anything related to AKP/Erdogan, without beeing critical in a very dangerous manner.
 

Zafer

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Saving lifes, by killing lifes?
What I mean with "AKP tool". You defend anything related to AKP/Erdogan, without beeing critical in a very dangerous manner.
You are making a personal accusation which is not accepted in this forum.

I defend Türkiye's position because I approve of it and actually ask for more rather than simply defending its leaders. Ak Parti and Erdoğan do what I want while I actually ask for more of it.

It is saving lives by killing the enemy that want to kill us or our friends. What part of that don't you understand after so much time following defense forums.
 

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According to Somali sources, Bayraktar UAVs used by the Mogadishu administration targeted a mosque in the village of Bakdad (Baghdad) near the Afgoye settlement in the Lower Shabel region during the tarawih prayer. Sources state that 18 civilians died in the attack.

Turkey urgently needs to change its policy to protect civilians in Somalia.
I think it is time we assign overseer officers to Somalia's drone missions.
 

Bozan

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If you can't even reign in the SNA I doubt they can police Somalia on not killing civilians
 

Kartal1

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I wonder if the reporting is accurate, it may be too easy to fabricate news. Misuse of weapons certainly undermines trust.
There is a reality in Turkish weapons export in Africa and it is that the exports are done in a totally irresponsible way with no vision either on the internal impact in these countries, but also no vision regarding the future in which the chance for use of Turkish weapons against Turkish soldiers is extremely high... And I am not talking about rifles and machine guns, but sophisticated weapons like UCAVs.

Turkiye: Do you like France and UAE?

African Customer: No.

Turkiye: Allright, take this drone!

Turkish made drones are known to have caused civilian casualties at least in Somalia, Mali and Ethiopia. The numbers of civilian casualties in result of Turkish made UCAV use is in the thousands by now.

Propaganda is big part of any war, but unfortunately here we are talking about irresponsible export and irresponsible use. Currently Turkish made drones are in the hands of armed forces around Africa that I am not shy to call tribes. This is not a good thing.

In the case of Somalia we already operated drones there. We have a big training facility, we have the soft power and I am sure we have the capacity. My personal opinion is that a counter-terrorism coordination center should be established in Mogadishu under Turkish supervision. This center will cover all aspects of the counter-terrorism initiatives both in terms of the armed forces, law enforcement services and intelligence. Advisers to senior officers in the Somali National Army should be appointed and counter-terrorism efforts must be reinforced with Turkish expertise. We can not let such kind of unprofessional behavior to damage our image.
 

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I think it is time we assign overseer officers to Somalia's drone missions.
Not only drone missions... The security of the Turkish business and military personnel in Somalia should be ensured. This is of crucial importance in order for Turkiye to continue working towards the objectives that were put within the frame of the strategic partnership between Turkiye and Somalia.

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Zafer

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The numbers of civilian casualties in result of Turkish made UCAV use is in the thousands by now.
Do you have proof for your clam or are you just saying your gut feeling.
 

Zafer

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I only see a few claims that lack proof. This latest Somali claim is the only one that holds significance as it came after the hotel attack that killed high ranked government officials and provoked retaliation that may have led to a hasty first opportunity attack.
 

Kartal1

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Do you have proof for your clam or are you just saying your gut feeling.
That's what independent analyzers following the conflicts in the region tell. By independent I am not talking about the typical anti-Turkiye bullshit we see nowadays. I also can find visual proof for killed civilians in such strikes if I dig deep enough, but I am not sure how appropriate will be to share the content here.

The reason why we are seeing these news so late is because there are little sources covering the developments in the region due to known reasons. This is good from the point of purely business perspective, but in future these cases will start to be a headache for us and the international community will start to ask questions. Add these with the rare cases of collateral damage in the north of Iraq, the black propaganda and you have a pretty serious problem. While in 99% of collateral damage caused by these are not in result of Turkish use we will get the negatives of these claims.

Instead putting our heads into the sand and pretend that nothing is wrong we should recognize the problem and find solution to it. Many of us including guys in the forum warned about the consequences of these irresponsible sales and we are seeing the impact and mark my words, in 2-3 years from now these issues will be brought to higher places than a couple of analyzers in Twitter and Turkiye will get the negatives. Why? Is it because Turkiye did it? No! It is because this is the best way to slander Turkiye for its operations against targets in its back yard.

If even the US is impacted by such claims just think of what Turkiye will get.
 

Zafer

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That's what independent analyzers following the conflicts in the region tell. By independent I am not talking about the typical anti-Turkiye bullshit we see nowadays. I also can find visual proof for killed civilians in such strikes if I dig deep enough, but I am not sure how appropriate will be to share the content here.

The reason why we are seeing these news so late is because there are little sources covering the developments in the region due to known reasons. This is good from the point of purely business perspective, but in future these cases will start to be a headache for us and the international community will start to ask questions. Add these with the rare cases of collateral damage in the north of Iraq, the black propaganda and you have a pretty serious problem. While in 99% of collateral damage caused by these are not in result of Turkish use we will get the negatives of these claims.

Instead putting our heads into the sand and pretend that nothing is wrong we should recognize the problem and find solution to it. Many of us including guys in the forum warned about the consequences of these irresponsible sales and we are seeing the impact and mark my words, in 2-3 years from now these issues will be brought to higher places than a couple of analyzers in Twitter and Turkiye will get the negatives. Why? Is it because Turkiye did it? No! It is because this is the best way to slander Turkiye for its operations against targets in its back yard.

If even the US is impact by such claims just think of what Turkiye will get.
I wouldn't call drone sales irresponsible, consider the consequences in the case where they were not there. But I would agree that we need to keep our eyes open for cases of taking shortcuts and misuse of them. They need more reliable intelligence before hitting targets. We don't want shame but we want pride.
 

Saithan

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The latest claims about misuse are from Somalia, but in Somalia we can do a lot to prevent this from happening. While Somalia has its own problems, there still is some kind of stability left. In situations as that in Mali and Ethiopia we can't do much. These countries are under constant pressure and the environment is suitable for coups. We know the recent history of Mali and a coup in Ethiopia is prevented just 1 year ago. Due to this lack of stability even if we send advisors, give courses to personnel this knowledge and expertise can not be accumulated for long. Technology is a good thing to have and drones are a very good technologically advanced tool to keep in check terrorist organizations in the region, but just drones are not enough.

Wherever possible we must send advisors until the personnel and military officers adopt the needed expertise and adapt their rules of engagement and criteria according to a higher standard as the standard of TSK for example. And where this is not possible it is better not to export such weapons.

I happen to talk to a Somalian yesterday, our kids go to the same daycare.

I asked him if Turkey's effort was paying off in Somalia. His answer was that it was progressing very slow, but it was still better than what other nations in the world has done.

The issue is Somaliland declaring indepencence, while some regions in Somaliland doesn't want to be separated from Somalia. Which kinda brings us back to all this Clan stuff.

Somaliland is not in anyway trying to help Somalia, so the support internally doesn't really exist. Clan stuff.

But the same could be said about Somalia, while Al-Shabbab is causing issue in Mogadishu and the area there and south, the northern parts seem to be more safe.

But you still need proper law enforcement present to create safe environment for further developing the country.

So why is Turkeys endeavor going so slow.

Classic problem, Turkish government ask Somalian government, "send us some people to train".

Clan mentality goes, "we'll send our own clan members to train".

So yes, you are right we should have advisor present to prevent any such incidents.

Like in the movie Charlie Wilsons War, "All these things happened, it was glorious, but we fucked up the end game".

Without an educational system that focuses on nationalism, you can never break out of the Clan stuff.

This goes for our country as well.
 

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