TR TF-X Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Gamal]

T-50/FA-50 continues to dominate this gap. It will be interesting for the turks to face this. Your engine problem continues, and the longer the project gets, the longer it will get.

Egypt aims for local production of South Korean trainer aircraft

Egypt’s state-owned Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI) announced on 16 January that it has signed an agreement with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) for local production of the latter’s T-50/FA-50 lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) aircraft. The aircraft will be built at the AOI Aircraft...

defencehub.live

 

[Ripley]

T-50/FA-50 continues to dominate this gap. It will be interesting for the turks to face this. Your engine problem continues, and the longer the project gets, the longer it will get.

Egypt aims for local production of South Korean trainer aircraft

Egypt’s state-owned Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI) announced on 16 January that it has signed an agreement with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) for local production of the latter’s T-50/FA-50 lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) aircraft. The aircraft will be built at the AOI Aircraft...

defencehub.live

Sorry but I don’t follow you. What gap are you referring to?

 

[Lool]

T-50/FA-50 continues to dominate this gap. It will be interesting for the turks to face this. Your engine problem continues, and the longer the project gets, the longer it will get.

Egypt aims for local production of South Korean trainer aircraft

Egypt’s state-owned Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI) announced on 16 January that it has signed an agreement with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) for local production of the latter’s T-50/FA-50 lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) aircraft. The aircraft will be built at the AOI Aircraft...

defencehub.live

Again with the vagueness
What do you exactly mean by "local production"? Will the jets be produced from scratch in Egypt or will they just assemble whatever South Korea produces in Egypt?
I dont think that Korea is that stupid to give any country its manufacturing technology especially to a country that has really close relations with North Korea and may leak sensitive tech to S.Korea arch-enemies, otherwise the S.Koreans would be stupid

The article itself states that Egypt somehow is either in talks or does produce more than 2 different types of trainer aircrafts so adding the KAI-F50 is just outright stupid

 

[Blackeyes90]

T-50/FA-50 continues to dominate this gap. It will be interesting for the turks to face this. Your engine problem continues, and the longer the project gets, the longer it will get.

Egypt aims for local production of South Korean trainer aircraft

Egypt’s state-owned Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI) announced on 16 January that it has signed an agreement with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) for local production of the latter’s T-50/FA-50 lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) aircraft. The aircraft will be built at the AOI Aircraft...

defencehub.live

What do you mean by this ? There is nothing to face. We are creating our own platform for our needs. Perhaps you should try it yourself !

 

[Zafer]

Actually I tried to hint out the main landing gear (mlg) they chose for the plane Regarding this probabiliTy. It highly resembles the F14’s mlg design which is a strong, rugged one that would endure CV operations. Therefore, I assumed that TAI already designed the plane carrier operations in mind.
Will this be the final naval version, if there’ll ever be a one? I doubt it but the mlg design they chose just might be a clue.
Again, though, don’t quote me on this one. Was just thinking.

Actually I saw the hint but was too preoccupied to act on it.

It would also make sense to use two different undercarriage designs for conventional and carrier versions if the carrier version is too beefy for conventional purposes but we will see how it turns out. I am happy they took the design that lends itself to adaptation to carrier operations as it shortens the path to a carrier capable plane.

 

[Gamal]

What do you mean by this ? There is nothing to face. We are creating our own platform for our needs. Perhaps you should try it yourself !

I said Hurjet's competition with the T-50 will be interesting. What's strange about this? Potential sales of this aircraft will be blocked 99% by the US

 

[Can't think of a Name]

I wish people won't so hostile and defence on this forum.

Also, how many TF-X fighters can Turkey operate?

 

[Test7]

The posts that violate the rules have been deleted

 

[Test7]

I said Hurjet's competition with the T-50 will be interesting. What's strange about this? Potential sales of this aircraft will be blocked 99% by the US

A number of engine projects are underway to overcome such problems. If you wanna know more about them, you can visit.

Propulsion Systems

This thread is dedicated to built, unbuilt and prototype Turkish engines of all types. With the increased effort of Turkey to develop various domestic vehicles and missiles. Turkey has also decided to exert effort into developing engines, power packs and propulsion systems to power and propel...

defencehub.live

 

[Sanchez]

I wish people won't so hostile and defence on this forum.

Also, how many TF-X fighters can Turkey operate?

It's a prototype. In an ideal world, once it's ready, one would expect 200+ over 20 years to be produced.

I said Hurjet's competition with the T-50 will be interesting. What's strange about this? Potential sales of this aircraft will be blocked 99% by the US

You are probably right. There will probably be no important sales for some time unless the local engine comes out. T129 has a similar issue with its powerplant though and it did see export success. Real issue right now is getting the engines from US for further production of Hürjet for Turkish needs.

 

[Gamal]

It's a prototype. In an ideal world, once it's ready, one would expect 200+ over 20 years to be produced.

You are probably right. There will probably be no important sales for some time unless the local engine comes out. T129 has a similar issue with its powerplant though and it did see export success. Real issue right now is getting the engines from US for further production of Hürjet for Turkish needs.

This means that the potential sale of this jet is dependent on the buyer country's relations with the US.


Btw this was exactly the ''face'' I mentioned above

 

[Zafer]

Real issue right now is getting the engines from US for further production of Hürjet for Turkish needs.

Spot on and a bunch of Turkish members on this forum are ostensibly thinking that engine delays are purely technical.

 

[Can't think of a Name]

It's a prototype. In an ideal world, once it's ready, one would expect 200+ over 20 years to be produced.

You are probably right. There will probably be no important sales for some time unless the local engine comes out. T129 has a similar issue with its powerplant though and it did see export success. Real issue right now is getting the engines from US for further production of Hürjet for Turkish needs.

I know that it is a prototype, but how many can turkey afford to build and operate without any partners joining the project?

 

[Zafer]

Hürjet's maiden flight is coming up despite snags.

 

[Can't think of a Name]

Spot on and a bunch of Turkish members on this forum are ostensibly thinking that engine delays are purely technical.

This is why I believe they should work on both the TF-6000 and a stronger upscaled engine at the same time.

so it will have its maiden flight on the 17 of march.

 

[Zafer]

This is why I believe they should work on both the TF-6000 and a stronger upscaled engine at the same time.

so it will have its maiden flight on the 17 of march.

18th of March the latest planned, possibly earlier.

 

[Sanchez]

Spot on and a bunch of Turkish members on this forum are ostensibly thinking that engine delays are purely technical.

apart from the F404 engine being delayed due to technical issues which I read here, there has been no delays afaik on TAI projects so far. We order them for prototypes, and they get delivered. Serial production is another issue, as well as the 4th prototype of TF-X. Are they ordered yet? We don't know. US not giving the T800 engines for Pakistan's T129's is another issue and not really related. That was due to Pakistan, not Turkey.

I know that it is a prototype, but how many can turkey afford to build and operate without any partners joining the project?

We don't have numbers on total projected project cost. If engine supply is resolved, and prototyping phase is concluded, it'd start with LRIP runs and few years after that budgeting for serial production throughout the years would be thought about. Too early to say anything really.

 

[Zafer]

apart from the F404 engine being delayed due to technical issues which I read here, there has been no delays afaik on TAI projects so far. We order them for prototypes, and they get delivered. Serial production is another issue, as well as the 4th prototype of TF-X. Are they ordered yet? We don't know. US not giving the T800 engines for Pakistan's T129's is another issue and not really related. That was due to Pakistan, not Turkey.

We don't have numbers on total projected project cost. If engine supply is resolved, and prototyping phase is concluded, it'd start with LRIP runs and few years after that budgeting for serial production throughout the years would be thought about. Too early to say anything really.

The US will drag foot if not sanction directly as they have their own new trainer the Boeing–Saab T-7 Red Hawk that they want to sell.

Boeing aims to sell over 2,700 Red Hawks globally. In addition to the U.S. Air Force.

 

[babayetu]

I said Hurjet's competition with the T-50 will be interesting. What's strange about this? Potential sales of this aircraft will be blocked 99% by the US

Hurjet project just like Hürkus is fundementally an R&D project. Aim is to make TAI a technologically capable company that could carry out the TF-X project or the projects that'll come after that.
I agree that it is very likely no export success will be achieved but TURAF is going to procure +50 that will compensate like %70 of the funds that goes into the project.

Economically, roughly TAI is going to be spending like 4b$ in 40 years to supply around 50 jets and spare parts meanwhile TURAF paying like 3b$. So TAI's loss is 1b$ but it is going to gain a lot of experience.

In the alternative case If TURAF just buys from koreans or americans or italians it would gain an offset agreement for TAI in which TAI is to only produce trivial parts&assembly which is basicly 0 valuable experience for TAI, TURAF would pay 3b$ again and TAI would earn like 1b$.

In short, Turkey chose spending extra 2b$ so that it could have a company and human resources that can design and manifacture a supersonic jet, in my opinion it is a very good investment cause that 2b$ extra spending is going to its own engineers pocket and staying in the national economy anyway. Not to mention, we don't know how would Turkey-US relationship could change in 5 to 10 years and Turkey could export this jet to its close allies which could make the project completely lucrative.
I think, for countries like Turkey which most of its exports are not high-tech any investment or adventure in high-tech sectors are good to go and im happy with it, otherwise those $$$ going to stupid construction projects or flat out wasted in corruption shenanigans, always better to invest in our human resources& technical infrastracture and maybe sacrifice in the short term than just buying foreign and lag behind forever. Clearly, after the hurkus project hurjet is the perfect next step to take.

 

[AzeriTank]

Hurjet project just like Hürkus is fundementally an R&D project. Aim is to make TAI a technologically capable company that could carry out the TF-X project or the projects that'll come after that.
I agree that it is very likely no export success will be achieved but TURAF is going to procure +50 that will compensate like %70 of the funds that goes into the project.

Economically, roughly TAI is going to be spending like 4b$ in 40 years to supply around 50 jets and spare parts meanwhile TURAF paying like 3b$. So TAI's loss is 1b$ but it is going to gain a lot of experience.

In the alternative case If TURAF just buys from koreans or americans or italians it would gain an offset agreement for TAI in which TAI is to only produce trivial parts&assembly which is basicly 0 valuable experience for TAI, TURAF would pay 3b$ again and TAI would earn like 1b$.

In short, Turkey chose spending extra 2b$ so that it could have a company and human resources that can design and manifacture a supersonic jet, in my opinion it is a very good investment cause that 2b$ extra spending is going to its own engineers pocket and staying in the national economy anyway. Not to mention, we don't know how would Turkey-US relationship could change in 5 to 10 years and Turkey could export this jet to its close allies which could make the project completely lucrative.
I think, for countries like Turkey which most of its exports are not high-tech any investment or adventure in high-tech sectors are good to go and im happy with it, otherwise those $$$ going to stupid construction projects or flat out wasted in corruption shenanigans, always better to invest in our human resources& technical infrastracture and maybe sacrifice in the short term than just buying foreign and lag behind forever. Clearly, after the hurkus project hurjet is the perfect next step to take.

Things you mentioned has been told officially several times. Also, there are countries that like Malasia, has rare earth materials that US needs it and will not be able to block the sale. It might create extra issues for itself where Turkey could make 1.8 billion$. Plus, Russia has similar engine that Turkey could ask to use(i think rd53 was the name, like the one Pakistan use). On the other hand, 2 TF10000 will be able to power Hurjet which the prototype will be readu this year but the real engine might take 3-4 years which is also fine. Most important one, it can use double Ukranian engine that Kizilelma will use and still have mote power than f404