TR TF-X KAAN | F-16 Özgür | Hürjet | Hürkuş - Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Rajendra Chola]

Front landing gear disagrees with you.

I fail to see how it's also designed for carrier ops, as there are no carrier designs for it to land yet. This is made by TAI's own resources. Their goal is to create a LIFT trainer for hvkk and even that is not yet guaranteed. Let's not get that ahead of ourselves.

If Hürjet becomes a reality and an N version is in the works, it'll be buffed up heavily in structural integrity and MTOW will increase. Probably will need 2 engines or a bigger one. As it currently stands with the F404, not worth to have her on a carrier, what good will it do?

Indian Navy rejected Naval Tejas with F404 due to bulked up increased MTOW which limits the radius and weapons capacity. It also finished landing and take off tests from aircraft carriers. From the results, Navy also rejected F414 engine upgrade seeing it still would carry low capacity and wanted multi engine aircraft.

IN requirement is different. It needs to police last swathes of water. So it needs an fighter with long legs. But Turkey can make do with an fighter with shorter legs as it’s primary threats are not far away. Hurjet in Naval role may still work.
However I agree, turning an Air Force variant into Naval variant is time consuming, complex design changes etc

 

[Heartbang]

Indian Navy rejected Naval Tejas with F404 due to bulked up increased MTOW which limits the radius and weapons capacity. It also finished landing and take off tests from aircraft carriers. From the results, Navy also rejected F414 engine upgrade seeing it still would carry low capacity and wanted multi engine aircraft.

IN requirement is different. It needs to police last swathes of water. So it needs an fighter with long legs. But Turkey can make do with an fighter with shorter legs as it’s primary threats are not far away. Hurjet in Naval role may still work.
However I agree, turning an Air Force variant into Naval variant is time consuming, complex design changes etc

Part of the success F404's managed to get with F-18 fighters come from F-18 being designed with CATOBAR ops in mind. When you get to yeet the plane at high velocity for launch, everything gets way easier.
Modifying Hurjet for STOBAR ops might not be worthwhile.

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Part of the success F404's managed to get with F-18 fighters come from F-18 being designed with CATOBAR ops in mind. When you get to yeet the plane at high velocity for launch, everything gets way easier.
Modifying Hurjet for STOBAR ops might not be worthwhile.

F18 is still dual engine. Two F404 would still work in Catobar or stobar config. Would still carry lot of fuel and weapons in stobar config.
But single engine with stobar would be still an tough call.

For Indian tender, F18 was tested in stobar configuration and they found it can still lift 80% of the capacity in Catobar config. For IN, it’s still an significant improvement over Mig29k

 

[Heartbang]

F18 is still dual engine. Two F404 would still work in Catobar or stobar config. Would still carry lot of fuel and weapons in stobar config.
But single engine with stobar would be still an tough call.

For Indian tender, F18 was tested in stobar configuration and they found it can still lift 80% of the capacity in Catobar config. For IN, it’s still an significant improvement over Mig29k

With this in mind, we could argue making a naval Hurjet will not be a minor upgrade it needs to be and will be essentially a brand new aircraft.
At that point, it would be better idea to make a VTOL TFX.

 

[Zafer]

With this in mind, we could argue making a naval Hurjet will not be a minor upgrade it needs to be and will be essentially a brand new aircraft.
At that point, it would be better idea to make a VTOL TFX.

It is an overkill to make a VTOL TFX. However smaller VTOL aircraft can be made. But still TB3 and Kızılelma can do the job already.

 

[uçuyorum]

Hürjet is not a fighter. There is a planned light attack craft version that is also not a multi-role fighter. It also has much more in common with 4th generation fighters than a 5th gen fighter. Making a twin engine naval version of Hürjet means making an entirely new, F18 A/B like fighter from scratch, and these would still have very limited usefulness in a hypothethical TCG Trakya that is similar to TCG Anadolu. And then if we were to make an entirely new full fledged aircraft carrier, would we make it for Hürjet, an underpowered platform based on outdated technology? To me it seems only in 2040-2050, after we have a significant fleet of TFX and significant economic recovery / growth could we hope to make a real aircraft carrier and a 5+ gen fighter that will be operated on it that will actually give us proper naval aviation capacity, if at all. Until then TB-3 / Kızılelma seem more realistic and useful.

 

[Heartbang]

It is an overkill to make a VTOL TFX. However smaller VTOL aircraft can be made. But still TB3 and Kızılelma can do the job already.

It will be a bonafide hit. And a mighty competitor to F-35B. After TFX project bears fruit we must look into it.

Hürjet is not a fighter. There is a planned light attack craft version that is also not a multi-role fighter. It also has much more in common with 4th generation fighters than a 5th gen fighter. Making a twin engine naval version of Hürjet means making an entirely new, F18 A/B like fighter from scratch, and these would still have very limited usefulness in a hypothethical TCG Trakya that is similar to TCG Anadolu. And then if we were to make an entirely new full fledged aircraft carrier, would we make it for Hürjet, an underpowered platform based on outdated technology? To me it seems only in 2040-2050, after we have a significant fleet of TFX and significant economic recovery / growth could we hope to make a real aircraft carrier and a 5+ gen fighter that will be operated on it that will actually give us proper naval aviation capacity, if at all. Until then TB-3 / Kızılelma seem more realistic and useful.

My point exactly.

 

[Yasar]

Aircraft carriers are expensive and bulky platforms that are difficult to defend and operate. They are far too complicated to be useful for small but versatile navies.
For future modern navies, their presence may be questioned with a view to reform them in to more manageable platforms of sort.

A purpose built more economically calculated design carrier of 225-250 metre length of ~20000tons with CATOBAR system, operating a few squadrons of twin TF10000 engined stealthy KE UCAVs would be capable of giving both aerial and surface defence to the ship as well as project force within a diameter of 1500km.
There is no need to build expensive carriers and planes to operate from them. Expendable UCAVs can be the solution. A good ASW frigate and a submarine would suffice to provide escort for such a ship, that can also operate various helicopters to project force and defence against other surface combatants.
We don’t have to do and copy what other navies are doing. We need to develop our naval force in line with what we need and what we can afford. (Just like our tank and Pantsir killer TB2s)

 

[dBSPL]

I don't know whether it will be an upward bifurcation from the Hurjet project or a downward fork from the MMU, but I'm almost sure that we will see another fighter jet between the two platforms, in 2030s. In addition to the TF-6000/10000 engine development program We need two engines, one in the 20.000lb (with afterburner) and one in the 35.000lb in heavy class. Apart from the Hurjet advanced training jet, the KE's heavy variant can use this 20,000lb engine in twin and single engine configurations, and the Anka-3 follow-on/heavier variant in single engine configuration, without a/b.

The 35,000lb engine can be used as a single engine in this intermediate jet as well as the MMU. Also, if the force needs a high-capacity strategic bomber/penetrator/tanker etc, this engine could be used to achieve a much heavier and larger variant of latest ANKA fork.

So to summarize, we need engines in 3 main classes for possible combat aviation projects in the medium to long term:

1. 6000/10000 light class turbofan
2. 24000/35000 heavy class turbofan
3. 13000/20000 medium class turbofan

 

[boredaf]

What I would love to see is a missile truck like F-15EX that can take full advantage of all the AESA's we are planning to put on drones.

 

[Rooxbar]

What I'd love to see is a concerted swift action regarding engine development. Government should create the incentive for Kale and TEI to join forces in a joint venture for the here proposed 20k and 35k engines, to speed up future testing operations among other things.

 

[Nutuk]

What I would love to see is a missile truck like F-15EX that can take full advantage of all the AESA's we are planning to put on drones.

The question is how much a missile truck is needed.

F15-EX is nowadays wanted for her range, not her capacity as bomb truck. Nowadays we do not need a truck load of bombs to destroy a target, one smart guided bomb does the trick

 

[what]

What I'd love to see is a concerted swift action regarding engine development. Government should create the incentive for Kale and TEI to join forces in a joint venture for the here proposed 20k and 35k engines, to speed up future testing operations among other things.

Everyone's still waiting for the TF-X engine tender and hedging their bets. But that would be welcome outcome.
Maybe Kale could do parts manufacturing as a Tier1 supplier or get a certain share while TEI keeps the overall project.

 

[No Name]

Everyone's still waiting for the TF-X engine tender and hedging their bets. But that would be welcome outcome.
Maybe Kale could do parts manufacturing as a Tier1 supplier or get a certain share while TEI keeps the overall project.

I think it would be for the best if the government launched two different engine projects for the TF-X, one a 5th gen engine that is given to the new company that Rolls-Royce and Kale set up and a second one that is a 4th gen engine that TEI should build just in case.

Turkey shouldn't let the opportunity that is the Rolls-Royce and Kale partnership go to waste, especially as it might one day be a way for Turkey to become a way for Turkey to get its foot in the door of the Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP).

 

[Rooxbar]

This video has 2.8 million views. How? 6th gen to REPLACE Hürjet?

 

[Merzifonlu]

KE is not 6th fighter. Not yet. May be 10 years after.

 

[Tonyukuk]

This video has 2.8 million views. How? 6th gen to REPLACE Hürjet?

YouTube is flooded with these low quality military channels. It's pathetic.

 

[Quasar]

Was gonna ask the same question myself

While T50 and T7 designed on center lined main landing gears similar to F16 and old F104, on Hurjet they preferred the main landing gears beneath the wing roots.
The only main gain I can think of is Hurjet’s prospective ability to carry centerline pods and even ammunition.
On structural strength and weaknesses, experts here can do a better assessment.

Saying that, however, can’t help but notice the resemblance between Hurjet’s and F14’s main landing gear design. *wink wink.

another intersting thing is eventhough Hürjet has half the range of a F 16 still it's range is 400 km more than T 7 red hawk and T 50 and it was stated that it will have air refueling capability.

 

[Isa Khan]

Currently no, but I hope TAI is smart enough to make the Hurjet available in 2 engine choices (like F16 has choice between GE and P&W engine). If Hurjet is also available with EJ200 it would be able to sell it to countries where the US blocks the US engine

Probably should've done that from start after F-35 issue and the way US kept hassling Turkey. Wonder why countries choose American engine instead of Eurojet, French or local one. (Ex- FA-50, Gripen, KFX) This issue complicate sales.

 

[Hasanrize]

Probably should've done that from start after F-35 issue and the way US kept hassling Turkey. Wonder why countries choose American engine instead of Eurojet, French or local one. (Ex- FA-50, Gripen, KFX) This issue complicate sales.

Frech Engine? Dude, they don't even provide an engine for SOM, and you are writing their name to alternative lists? Seriously, when it comes to sanctions, if there is anything worse than the USA, it is Europe.