TR TF-X KAAN | F-16 Özgür | Hürjet | Hürkuş - Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[MADDOG]

Ukrainian engine developer Ivchenko Progress has entered the "Preliminary Design Phase Project" tender for the development of the turbofan engine of KAAN.

-Ivchenko Progress established a cooperation model with TEI within the scope of the tender.

Via SST

Ukrayna KAAN savaş uçağının motor ihalesine girdİ

KAAN savaş uçağının özgün motorunun geliştirilmesi için açılan ihaleye, Ukraynalı Ivchenko Progress şirketi de katılım sağladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[Saithan]

Ukrainian engine developer Ivchenko Progress has entered the "Preliminary Design Phase Project" tender for the development of the turbofan engine of KAAN.

-Ivchenko Progress established a cooperation model with TEI within the scope of the tender.

Via SST

View attachment 57783

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663156264354938884

same but in turkish.

 

[TheInsider]

TEI&TRMotor(TAI-owned companies) +Ivchenko Progress vs Kale&RR.

 

[Afif]

At this point I am considering to establish my own company Afif-Motor, and submitt my offer to SSB before tender ends.

Jokes aside, this tender is taking too long. It is already 2023 and KAAN gonna make its maiden flight soon, yet the Engine development is not officially awarded.

 

[dBSPL]

TEI&TRMotor(TAI-owned companies) +Ivchenko Progress vs Kale&RR.

I am in favor of both groups developing a prototype.

 

[GoatsMilk]

So is this hedge should the americans start embargoing engines on us?

 

[Afif]

I am in favor of both groups developing a prototype.

It would have been ideal.
But I remember, Mr. Demir saying, State doesn't have enough funding for two simultaneous project. It's gonna be a single project by chosen company or a merger of all companies together.

 

[SavunmaSanayiST.com]

Let me emphasise this: SavunmaSanayiST does not publish information that it has not officially confirmed. This news is also officially confirmed. Official!

We follow the posts in different defence forums, we see those who are upset and those who slander #FakeNews

 

[Yasar]

Ukrainian engine developer Ivchenko Progress has entered the "Preliminary Design Phase Project" tender for the development of the turbofan engine of KAAN.

-Ivchenko Progress established a cooperation model with TEI within the scope of the tender.

Via SST

View attachment 57783

Ukrayna KAAN savaş uçağının motor ihalesine girdİ

KAAN savaş uçağının özgün motorunun geliştirilmesi için açılan ihaleye, Ukraynalı Ivchenko Progress şirketi de katılım sağladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

It would be really interesting to see what Ivchenko Progress is proposing.
1. They do not have a manufacturing facility.
2. They have never worked with single crystal and 3D technologies.
3. They have never helped build a military engine that has more than 6000lbf dry thrust.

Motor Sich has never built a military engine with more than 6000lbf dry thrust. Our TF35K engine has to have a dry thrust of 24-26000lbf.
To achieve the performance levels we are aspiring to, we have to use 3rd generation single crystal turbine blades and additive manufacturing techniques. These are technologies that Ivchenko Progress do not possess.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

The best possible scenario is; SSB encouraged TEI/TrMotor to start working on preliminary design stage and As a result, they have been working since 2/3 years and the number of engineers in program exceeded to 300. Later, SSB likely announce the winner as TrMotor/TEI/IP partnership, and later Kale also join the big club as development partner for Tf35K.

 

[Zafer]

I wonder what people expect Kale to put in the TF35 project while TEI already have 300 engineers working on the job for several years now. It is not about making Kale useful for the project but making the project useful for Kale. TEI only need to be pressured to work faster if need be.

 

[Yasar]

The best possible scenario is; SSB encouraged TEI/TrMotor to start working on preliminary design stage and As a result, they have been working since 2/3 years and the number of engineers in program exceeded to 300. Later, SSB likely announce the winner as TrMotor/TEI/IP partnership, and later Kale also join the big club as development partner for Tf35K.

Ivchenko Progress was asked by TRMotor, to design an APU for KAAN-TFX. It is most likely that their input is limited with that contribution.
I honestly can’t see a company that has no working engines that they may have designed since Soviet era, to be able to contribute anything to a design that is 35-40 years ahead of anything that they already have.

If SSB were to award the TF35K engine to Kale-RR consortium with TEI being a party to produce parts, then we may have just about a chance to see a locally produced engine powering and flying KAAN by 2028.
Otherwise if we are to faff around with TRMotor/Ivchenko Progress etc, it won’t be before early 2030s when we have an indigenous engine powering our KAAN-TFX.
In RR, we are talking about a company that can turn around a working demonstrator prototype engine for FCAS, from nothing within 18 months.
Having been a party to the development of F136 engine with GE and have the right tools such as additive production techniques for Blisk manufacturing and single crystal turbine blades, they are the right address to achieve what we want in this late hour of the day!

Rolls-Royce unveils new engine demonstrator for FCAS - Aerospace Manufacturing

Rolls-Royce's defence business has designed, built, and run an innovative small engine concept in under 18 months – a transformational project that will change how products and technologies are developed for the UK’s Future Combat Air Strategy (FCAS).

www.aero-mag.com

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Ivchenko Progress was asked by TRMotor, to design an APU for KAAN-TFX. It is most likely that their input is limited with that contribution.
I honestly can’t see a company that has no working engines that they may have designed since Soviet era, to be able to contribute anything to a design that is 35-40 years ahead of anything that they already have.

If SSB were to award the TF35K engine to Kale-RR consortium with TEI being a party to produce parts, then we may have just about a chance to see a locally produced engine powering and flying KAAN by 2028.
Otherwise if we are to faff around with TRMotor/Ivchenko Progress etc, it won’t be before early 2030s when we have an indigenous engine powering our KAAN-TFX.
In RR, we are talking about a company that can turn around a working demonstrator prototype engine for FCAS, from nothing within 18 months.
Having been a party to the development of F136 engine with GE and have the right tools such as additive production techniques for Blisk manufacturing and single crystal turbine blades, they are the right address to achieve what we want in this late hour of the day!

Rolls-Royce unveils new engine demonstrator for FCAS - Aerospace Manufacturing

Rolls-Royce's defence business has designed, built, and run an innovative small engine concept in under 18 months – a transformational project that will change how products and technologies are developed for the UK’s Future Combat Air Strategy (FCAS).

www.aero-mag.com

I think Things aren't going as expected with UK. The contribution of BAE in TFX Phase-1 was very mediocre with mostly inexperienced engineers and Tusaş complained about this situation a few times. As for engine to be likely developed with RR, RR put strong cards on table both in terms of license rights and production since they feel that Turkiye don't have an alternative way out of their offer. Also, Some reluctant statements by Turkish officials regarding possible deal with BAE for TFX Phase-2 were reflected in the press. Turkiye's cooperation offers for Tempest were also rejected by UK. The withdrawal of British royal air force which was said to join the last AnatolianEagle exercise also created question marks. Apart from this, there is a serious political confrontation and embargo from the West in almost every field, be them enlargement of NATO, terror operations or Russia/Ukraine war. Considering these conditions, TEI/TrMotor must have been given an unofficial development task for Tf35K engine as a precautionary measure. If everything was fine with the RR, no one would work with 300 engineers on the design of the engine on an engineer/day basis. RR's capability is indisputable but we all know what we are going to face when it comes to matters related with Turkiye bro.

 

[Quasar]

TF35K is in a way our Manhattan project guess so we need to gether all enginers and infrastructure available in a single pool

 

[Eagleeye]

At this point I am considering to establish my own company Afif-Motor, and submitt my offer to SSB before tender ends.

Jokes aside, this tender is taking too long. It is already 2023 and KAAN gonna make its maiden flight soon, yet the Engine development is not officially awarded.

it doesn't matter it's only a formality tr motor and tei has already begun with the development of the engine 2 years ago.

 

[Zafer]

TF35K is in a way our Manhattan project guess so we need to gether all enginers and infrastructure available in a single pool

Gathering engineers is good but gathering companies is wrong. TEI will subcontract parts development when necessary and they actually do, like when they cooperate with Ivchenko or Motor Sich of the Ukraine or when TAI subcontract parts development of Hürjet to a Brazilian company. But project ownership should stay in solely the possession of TEI.

 

[buraktunahan]

The first reason that comes to my mind for this cooperation; this decision may be a "political" decision between countries rather than a "technical" one. As you know, at the moment we are connected to Ukraine in terms of engines (kızılelma, atak2, etc.), and they are connected to us in terms of drones. This decision may be a political decision to further deepen relations between the two countries.

Another reason is; As you know, there are already some components that slow down the project, that you can normally obtain from the market, but that you cannot obtain due to implicit embargoes, so you have to design yourself, which do not require critical technology (for example, the famous oil pump, which is required for the TF-6000 but not sold to us, etc.). It may have been aimed to save time by having such engine side components manufactured in Ukraine.

 

[GoatsMilk]

I think Things aren't going as expected with UK. The contribution of BAE in TFX Phase-1 was very mediocre with mostly inexperienced engineers and Tusaş complained about this situation a few times. As for engine to be likely developed with RR, RR put strong cards on table both in terms of license rights and production since they feel that Turkiye don't have an alternative way out of their offer. Also, Some reluctant statements by Turkish officials regarding possible deal with BAE for TFX Phase-2 were reflected in the press. Turkiye's cooperation offers for Tempest were also rejected by UK. The withdrawal of British royal air force which was said to join the last AnatolianEagle exercise also created question marks. Apart from this, there is a serious political confrontation and embargo from the West in almost every field, be them enlargement of NATO, terror operations or Russia/Ukraine war. Considering these conditions, TEI/TrMotor must have been given an unofficial development task for Tf35K engine as a precautionary measure. If everything was fine with the RR, no one would work with 300 engineers on the design of the engine on an engineer/day basis. RR's capability is indisputable but we all know what we are going to face when it comes to matters related with Turkiye bro.

I guess beggars cannot be choosers, but when the USA has a geopolitical agenda against Turkiye its never a good idea to rely on the British, since its pretty much known here in the UK we do whatever the USA wants.

 

[buraktunahan]

I guess beggars cannot be choosers, but when the USA has a geopolitical agenda against Turkiye its never a good idea to rely on the British, since its pretty much known here in the UK we do whatever the USA wants.

Turkey's motto is: "If anyone can do anything, I can do it too."

Maybe we'll make that engine a little late on our own. It will be a difficult process. But we'll build that engine eventually. Türkiye sought ways to cooperate with RR to shorten this process. Therefore, even if there is no RR, Türkiye continues on its way. It will take a long time, but eventually Türkiye will make its own engine.

It's always been like that. Years ago, we wanted to buy an armed Predator from the USA, it was not given to us. We started making our own drones 20 years ago. Today we export our own drones to 30 countries. Along with our own developed missiles.

We wanted to buy Patriot from the USA, we couldn't. We bought S400 from Russia. The United States imposed an embargo. We built our own air defense system. (Siper, Hisar, Sungur etc.)

We were building ships, but we couldn't get Harpoon from the USA. We've made an effort for years. We built our own anti-ship missile Atmaca.

Our "ally" USA no longer sells us F-16s or F-35s. He kicked us out of the F-35 project. So we started making Kaan. Hopefully this plane will be made eventually. But on the day this plane was built, we will not forget those who supported us and those who hindered us.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Turkey's motto is: "If anyone can do anything, I can do it too."

Maybe we'll make that engine a little late on our own. It will be a difficult process. But we'll build that engine eventually. Türkiye sought ways to cooperate with RR to shorten this process. Therefore, even if there is no RR, Türkiye continues on its way. It will take a long time, but eventually Türkiye will make its own engine.

It's always been like that. Years ago, we wanted to buy an armed Predator from the USA, it was not given to us. We started making our own drones 20 years ago. Today we export our own drones to 30 countries. Along with our own developed missiles.

We wanted to buy Patriot from the USA, we couldn't. We bought S400 from Russia. The United States imposed an embargo. We built our own air defense system. (Siper, Hisar, Sungur etc.)

We were building ships, but we couldn't get Harpoon from the USA. We've made an effort for years. We built our own anti-ship missile Atmaca.

Our "ally" USA no longer sells us F-16s or F-35s. He kicked us out of the F-35 project. So we started making Kaan. Hopefully this plane will be made eventually. But on the day this plane was built, we will not forget those who supported us and those who hindered us.

No doubts about it, but we shouldn't be surprised by such things. When temil kotil mentioned the tempest cooperation that was refused, he sounded bitter over it. Why would you act surprised? Are they ignorant to what's happening today towards Turkiye? Are they ignorant of British history? British history is rife with deception and duplicity.

My issue is the "surprise" when things don't pan out how they imagined. If I'm Turkiye and I'm dealing with the former imperial powers of Britain, France, Germany, etc I'm not expecting good things, I'm planning for the worst and hoping for the best. I'm not not planning for the best and hoping the worst doesn't happen.

We are not new to their games.

You know i've said it before but if you want to know what a nation really thinks about your nation, pay attention to their media. The British media is completely hostile to Turkiye. The British media portrays us as a two faced enemy of the west and great ally of Russia. While promoting the PKK always as "kurdish separatists fighting for freedom" never terrorists. When we kill PKK they report it as "killing Kurds". Deciving the international population that some kind of ethnic genocide is taking place.

The british state is on board with the american agenda against Turkiye. When you deal with them you must deal with them under this understanding.