TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[begturan]

On the Hürkus II prototype there is the drawing of the daughter of Zahide Güçlü Ekici.
One of the martyrs of the recent terrorist attack on TUSAS complex. RIP.

View attachment 72917

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1873640266722345225

May Allah accept the martyrdom of those who were martyred, their children will grow up without a mother or father for us.

 

[Fatman17]

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I am still not convinced of the mission profile as Hürküs C Fighter Aircraft.
As a Trainer this Aircraft makes perfect sense together with Hürjet.
But in contrast to the armed Hürkus, Hürjet in combination with drones can give a real impact against counter-terrorism, Pirates and Drug Cartels and Patrol flights in own Airspace.
These groups rarely have very sophisticated Air Defense Systems.
What they do have are very modern SHORAD manpads.
Hürküs C as a Combat Aircraft can only fly at medium/low altitudes at best and manpads can take the Aircraft apart precisely in this range.
Even as a third world Country Fighter it is no good as an armed Version.
I don't know what they were thinking developing something like this as manned armed fighter....

 

[Saithan]

I am also curious on what type of mission these can be used for. If they can be used to launch glidebombs and carry 2x2 under each wing then, i guess cheap emergency use ?

 

[boredaf]

I am still not convinced of the mission profile as Hürküs C Fighter Aircraft.
As a Trainer this Aircraft makes perfect sense together with Hürjet.
But in contrast to the armed Hürkus, Hürjet in combination with drones can give a real impact against counter-terrorism, Pirates and Drug Cartels and Patrol flights in own Airspace.
These groups rarely have very sophisticated Air Defense Systems.
What they do have are very modern SHORAD manpads.
Hürküs C as a Combat Aircraft can only fly at medium/low altitudes at best and manpads can take the Aircraft apart precisely in this range.
Even as a third world Country Fighter it is no good as an armed Version.
I don't know what they were thinking developing something like this as manned armed fighter....

I am also curious on what type of mission these can be used for. If they can be used to launch glidebombs and carry 2x2 under each wing then, i guess cheap emergency use ?

Tell that to the US Special Operations Command then:

Here comes Sky Warden, the crop duster that’s SOCOM’s newest armed overwatch aircraft

U.S. special operations forces have a new eye in the sky to rely on.

taskandpurpose.com

With proper munitions, Hürkuş C would never have to enter into manpad range, at all. And we have more than enough munitions for that. Whether it is just MK 81/82 with guidance kits, or air launched TRLG 122 or Tolun, It can attack targets from farther away than not just any manpad but even some proper AA systems, not that it would ever have to go against them. How effective it would be depends on how much it can carry the most, but the fact that it can take off from and land from less than 600 m means we can place it closer to where it would need to be and use it more frequently against terrorists as it would only cost a fraction of using a jet.

I wouldn't buy it for air force though, rather establish a JÖH or army air support branch that'll use them and drones to help in operations more smoothly.

 

[Saithan]

Tell that to the US Special Operations Command then:

Here comes Sky Warden, the crop duster that’s SOCOM’s newest armed overwatch aircraft

U.S. special operations forces have a new eye in the sky to rely on.

taskandpurpose.com

With proper munitions, Hürkuş C would never have to enter into manpad range, at all. And we have more than enough munitions for that. Whether it is just MK 81/82 with guidance kits, or air launched TRLG 122 or Tolun, It can attack targets from farther away than not just any manpad but even some proper AA systems, not that it would ever have to go against them. How effective it would be depends on how much it can carry the most, but the fact that it can take off from and land from less than 600 m means we can place it closer to where it would need to be and use it more frequently against terrorists as it would only cost a fraction of using a jet.

I wouldn't buy it for air force though, rather establish a JÖH or army air support branch that'll use them and drones to help in operations more smoothly.

Yes, that's what I am asking about. As I don't really hear much about how which munition and how much it can carry. Considering how the terrorist use the mini chopper to cross borders they can lay and wait for these to come flying and ambush it, it depends on reach and range of the payload.

 

[boredaf]

Yes, that's what I am asking about. As I don't really hear much about how which munition and how much it can carry. Considering how the terrorist use the mini chopper to cross borders they can lay and wait for these to come flying and ambush it, it depends on reach and range of the payload.

As far as I know they use paragliders, don't think they could be armed with any anti-air weapons. I can't remember its payload capacity, and it will probably be different after Hürkuş 2 upgrade, I remember TAI saying it could carry MK-83, not sure how many though. It should easily carry multiple TRLG-122s, for example, which will probably have over 75+ km of range. Tolun has 100+ km range. MK bombs with guidance kits can have up to around 100 km as well. So, it has good options it could use.

It can also possibly use Sungur as well if they still have the plans to make it useable by drones, it should work with Hürkuş as well.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Tell that to the US Special Operations Command then:

Here comes Sky Warden, the crop duster that’s SOCOM’s newest armed overwatch aircraft

U.S. special operations forces have a new eye in the sky to rely on.

taskandpurpose.com

With proper munitions, Hürkuş C would never have to enter into manpad range, at all. And we have more than enough munitions for that. Whether it is just MK 81/82 with guidance kits, or air launched TRLG 122 or Tolun, It can attack targets from farther away than not just any manpad but even some proper AA systems, not that it would ever have to go against them. How effective it would be depends on how much it can carry the most, but the fact that it can take off from and land from less than 600 m means we can place it closer to where it would need to be and use it more frequently against terrorists as it would only cost a fraction of using a jet.

I wouldn't buy it for air force though, rather establish a JÖH or army air support branch that'll use them and drones to help in operations more smoothly.

Ok, it may be true that with glide bombs of the HGK Series or UAV 122 supersonic ammunition between 30-100km from the target, a Hürküs C can drop or launch its bombs/missiles without coming within range of the enemy SHORAD.
Who tells me or you that there aren't many smaller groups somewhere up in target area 50-80km Radius, equipped with MANPADS and lurking in positions? It is not the case that SHORAD systems only or exclusively remain in the vicinity of combat value targets.

Then I can just take an Akinci drone and drop these bombs/missiles maybe in even higher altitude with the option of not risking human lives.

 

[boredaf]

Ok, it may be true that with glide bombs of the HGK Series or UAV 122 supersonic ammunition between 30-100km from the target, a Hürküs C can drop or launch its bombs/missiles without coming within range of the enemy SHORAD.
Who tells me or you that there aren't many smaller groups somewhere up in target area 50-80km Radius, equipped with MANPADS and lurking in positions? It is not the case that SHORAD systems only or exclusively remain in the vicinity of combat value targets.

Then I can just take an Akinci drone and drop these bombs/missiles maybe in even higher altitude with the option of not risking human lives.

You do realise that problem also exists for Hürjet, right? It will use most of the same munitions as Hürkuş. And if our reconnaissance misses "smaller groups" that are far closer to our bases than the target that means we have far bigger problems and they can shoot down Hürjet as well.

I'm not saying don't use drones, I'm making the case for how Hürkuş can be used, as opposed to you saying it is useless. There are of course caveats but your claim is simply not true.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

You do realise that problem also exists for Hürjet, right? It will use most of the same munitions as Hürkuş. And if our reconnaissance misses "smaller groups" that are far closer to our bases than the target that means we have far bigger problems and they can shoot down Hürjet as well.

I'm not saying don't use drones, I'm making the case for how Hürkuş can be used, as opposed to you saying it is useless. There are of course caveats but your claim is simply not true.

It's not a criticism of you or your opinion, just why the fuck would I as a mission planner want to send a Hürküs C there when I have other options that work just as well.....

I would never send a manned turboprob aircraft on such a sensitive mission, the time of turboprobs as manned weapon systems in the 21st century is over. Even combat helicopters are becoming less and less important, even for CAS missions; everything is now controlled by drones.
Even in the USA, A10 Fairchild aircraft are being phased out.
Because the MQ9 Reaper or a other drone with an on-board MG/Minigun + Bombs/Missiles can do the job just as well.
Honestly, if Turkey really wants to use a cheap weapon system instead of a fighter jet and the mission parameters allow it, then a drone is always the first choice!
If they want CAS support as an aircraft then we should buy two or four smaller Airbus planes from Turkish Airlines and have them converted as gunships from TAI and ASELSAN, the Americans still use gunships for terrorism, drugs, piracy missions.

 

[boredaf]

It's not a criticism of you or your opinion, just why the fuck would I as a mission planner want to send a Hürküs C there when I have other options that work just as well.....

I would never send a manned turboprob aircraft on such a sensitive mission, the time of turboprobs as manned weapon systems in the 21st century is over. Even combat helicopters are becoming less and less important, even for CAS missions; everything is now controlled by drones.
Even in the USA, A10 Fairchild aircraft are being phased out.
Because the MQ9 Reaper or a other drone with an on-board MG/minigun + Bombs/Missiles can do the job just as well.
Honestly, if Turkey really wants to use a cheap weapon system instead of a fighter jet and the mission parameters allow it, then a drone is always the first choice!
If they want CAS support as an aircraft then we should buy two or four smaller Airbus planes from Turkish Airlines and have them converted as gunships from TAI and ASELSAN, the Americans still use gunships for terrorism, drugs, piracy missions.

Gunships? You were concerned about manpads but you want to use gunships? How does that makes sense? What I'm talking about with missiles *is* CAS in modern times, US is retiring its A-10s because it is a relic from another era that has to get extremely close to do its job. When you can lob missiles (or guided bombs) 70-100 km from your target and hit your target that is close air support. This isn't WWII or Vietnam, nobody needs to get close to do its job if the munition has the required range.

And we are using drones, but drones are slower than Hürkuş, in certain situations, it might more useful than one.

 

[I_Love_F16]

It's not a criticism of you or your opinion, just why the fuck would I as a mission planner want to send a Hürküs C there when I have other options that work just as well.....

I would never send a manned turboprob aircraft on such a sensitive mission, the time of turboprobs as manned weapon systems in the 21st century is over. Even combat helicopters are becoming less and less important, even for CAS missions; everything is now controlled by drones.
Even in the USA, A10 Fairchild aircraft are being phased out.
Because the MQ9 Reaper or a other drone with an on-board MG/Minigun + Bombs/Missiles can do the job just as well.
Honestly, if Turkey really wants to use a cheap weapon system instead of a fighter jet and the mission parameters allow it, then a drone is always the first choice!
If they want CAS support as an aircraft then we should buy two or four smaller Airbus planes from Turkish Airlines and have them converted as gunships from TAI and ASELSAN, the Americans still use gunships for terrorism, drugs, piracy missions.

I agree with you. We already talked about it before, and I share the same opinion. It makes much more sense to use UCAV’s instead of an armed Hurkus. Pilots are extremely valuable, so we shouldn’t take the risk to send them if a drone can do the job. I believe that armed Hurkus’s were mainly developed for exports.

 

[Turkic]

P.1HH would provide everything you stated for CAS if Baykar makes a few touches on it. High speed, unmanned, high potential of armament...