TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

boredaf

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Yeah, we pinky promised not to use the F-16s we buy from them in the deal but I wonder what did we say about other F-16s we have... Or F-4s... Or all kinds of drones... Do pinky promises have fine prints?

Edit: More seriously, the thing these people forget about fucking with us is that sooner or later, US leaves. Might take a year , might take a decade, but they will leave. And we are still going to be here, shoving bombs where sun don't shine so long as terrorist attack us. They should really learn to play nice and keep their dogs in short chains if they don't want to be constantly scared about US leaving.
 

Nutuk

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I don't think they're working on Anka 4, and if they are, it's at a very early concept stage in terms of gathering ideas and feedback from the current Anka 3.
But to already have the preliminary design here, and how much payload it can carry etc. I doubt it.
It doesn't matter what you and I think. For what it is worth we may think both wrong.

What we know is that Temel Kotil talks about working on ANKA-4, so there is a project going on irrelevant to in what stage it is. One day is may just appear like ANKA-2 and ANKA-3 in almost finished stage.
 

TheInsider

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Not only IVEWS, but L3harris's AN/ALQ-254 (V1) has both of those advantages.

It is a built in system.
It is in complete hermony with APG-83.
From what I know AN/ALQ 254 (V1) Viper Shield doesn't have pulse-to-pulse interoperability with AN/APG-83 SABR this is one of the reasons why USAF chose AN/ALQ 257 IVEWS over Viper Sheild.

I was really surprised when I saw IVEWS in the DSCA note.
 

Iskander

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The US Congress decided to approve a deal with Turkey to sell it 40 new and modernize existing F-16 fighters.

The American Embassy in Ankara reported this on the social network X.

“This week's decision by Congress to approve Turkey's acquisition of 40 new and 79 upgraded F-16 aircraft is a major step forward. The Turkish F-16 fleet is critical for NATO forces in terms of ensuring future interoperability between allies,” the embassy quoted the head of the diplomatic mission, Jeffrey Flake, as saying.
 

Oublious

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The US Congress decided to approve a deal with Turkey to sell it 40 new and modernize existing F-16 fighters.

The American Embassy in Ankara reported this on the social network X.

“This week's decision by Congress to approve Turkey's acquisition of 40 new and 79 upgraded F-16 aircraft is a major step forward. The Turkish F-16 fleet is critical for NATO forces in terms of ensuring future interoperability between allies,” the embassy quoted the head of the diplomatic mission, Jeffrey Flake, as saying.



So are the F16 in our pocket now? :D

How will the projec go after the approval from the congres?
 

Sanchez

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So are the F16 in our pocket now?
Nope. At any point they can still make a new law with 2/3 majority blocking the sale, well after first few aircraft are even delivered to Turkey. If US gov and parties want to exert pressure, say against a Syria operation, they still can. To clarify though, they can always do this. Doesn't mean they will do it.

Now it's time for negotiations if they haven't already did those during the last 2.5 years. Exact number and type of systems to be sold, offset deals, and possible license production etc will be negotiated now. Can take a few weeks to months.
 

boredaf

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with 2/3 majority blocking the sale
Which is borderline impossible btw, neither party is getting that big of a majority without something drastically changing and bipartisanship between GOP and DNC is all but gone.

Now it is between defence ministries of Turkey, US and Lockheed Martin to iron out the details. I still expect LM to allow TAI to build our F-16s as it did before.
 

Sanchez

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bipartisanship between GOP and DNC is all but gone.
Eh, all blockages we got from the congress in the last 5 years have always been bipartizan. If there is political will, they can do it. Our job is to remove that political will, so diplomacy.
 

Oublious

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in pocked for 23 billiion dollar is not something to feel pround 🤦‍♂️


Thats a number what does not mean we are going to buy, Feridun Tasdemir have explained in a video today why the calculation is hihg.

 

Fairon

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I have compared Turkish Viper upgrade with Greece and they have real poor program. They don't have Legion pod maybe it was not avaible. They don't have IVEWS but ASPIS.



Rafale and F-35 has very good capabilities in that regard. They are probably counting on covering these areas with them.

I wouldn't be surprised if their main intention of getting the Viper upgrade is overhauling their F16 fleet and increasing their combat readiness. In that regard, getting only the essentials and cutting costs on the rest makes sense.
 

Cabatli_TR

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Although the F-16V process coincided with NATO's Scandinavian expansion, another important issue that has been overshadowed in the Turkish media is that Iran has started to conduct joint exercises with China in the region and that Russian Su-35 deliveries will begin in 2023. Although there are of course many other reasons, but it can be assumed as one of the big factors that these developments on NATO's eastern flank have been instrumental in softening the resistance created by senators who have become toys in the hands of congressional lobbyists.

If we look at the issue from the perspective of air force current/short term positions and -ASAP type- procurement planning, one of opportunity attracts my attention more: As we know, the list of ammunition notified to the congress includes both the new block AGM-88Bs and the AGM-88E AARGM order, which includes advanced active millimeter-wave seeker features that are developed with Italy. Thus, AARGM will enter the TAF inventory. It has an important update that allows the missile to continue tracking the target with determination even if the radar is turned off to get rid of the missile lock. In Viper squadrons, AARGM will be integrated with AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS and AN/APG-83 SABR on the electronic side.

However, there is another powerful SEAD/DEAD configuration paired with AARGMs: Eurofighter EK, which is also include Sweden Saab's Arexis Electronic Warfare (EW) suite, and which includes the CAPTOR E AESA radar and all these package is expected to replace the Tornado ECR.

We see many embargo decisions being lifted currently. Sweden, followed by Canada as latest examples but general picture seems broader than. With the US approval of the Viper, the only left stumbling is Germany. Personally, I think that this stubborn will be partially lifted, even if only in a narrow scope. I believe that the warm messages of the last days by german politicis are also aimed at preparing this environment. For Germany, NATO is not the only issue, but more importantly, there is an EU's future that declared its intention a week ago to provide a financing of up to 300 billion euros for the stronger integration of Central Asia into the EU's energy security and trade.

The fact that Germany is blocking this sale when the UK side is so willing to do so, I think, is becoming an increasingly critical issue in shaping the future of German-Turkish relations. And I think the UK is pursuing a win-in-every-situation strategy. But there is only one way in which Germany can win. It seems that Air Force has reached AARGM to prevent any vulnerability until the AKBABA, MURAD, MEH POD/IS solution is in place. While even the US sees it as a strategic issue to meet on minimum commonalities and secure the alliance border, Germany's alone and foot dragging position without a serious supporter is pushing relations permanent fracture and it is really nothing but nonsense. Verin amk T4'leri...


Certainly state's strategic threat perception and inventory assessment works in the way you mentioned bro.

Aster-30 Block-1NT is seriously requested today against guided ballistic missile threats that pose serious threat from Iran and its proxies which have become very widespread and at the same time, work is being carried out for Siper Blk-3 missiles.

Iran's approach to China, Russia's Su35 delivery schedule for Iran, Egypt's serious investment in air force, Russia's expansion strategy and its presence in our south and Greece's efforts to establish air superiority with last money in its hands have both affected KAAN schedule and the simultaneous request for 4+ generation aircrafts as a continuation of deterrence has been brought to the agenda.

On opposite front in NATO, the weakening position of the US in the Middle East, the bad situation in Ukraine, energy security and the closure of international trade routes in Redsea and Aden due to Israeli actions have deeply affected both the US and Europe, force them to see alternative suppliers/routes, leaving them unable to find a solution other than arming themselves or show of force. This situation has started to make Turkiye, which they have repeatedly stabbed in the back with embargoes, important again and the steps of softening in statements/policies have become apparent and even a return to F35 has started to be brought to the agenda. It is clear that for US front, the issue is the strategy of creating a deterrent NATO base against Iran through Turkiye in region and showing the stick with the hand of "ally Turks".

From Turkish side, the issue is the protection of regional interests and the balance of power in the process of the maturation of KAAN into a true war machine and TurAF maintains its most effective position with the full establishment of deterrence with most modern and better sensor and missile systems the regional rivals/enemies may purchase from other sources. To carry out this deterrence;

119 F16B70-Vs, with APG83 AESA + IVEWS along with Legion IRST with bulit-in datalink, Link-16 armed with AIM120C8, AIM9X2, HARM-B/E

150+ F16Ts, with Murad AESA + FEWS + Tulgar, T-Link armed with Gokhan/Gokdoğan, Bozdoğan and Akbaba missiles.

40 Eurofighter T4 with Captor-E + Arexis (?) + IRST+ Link-16 armed with Meteor and Iris-T (?)
 

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e2df67c4-d650-4bee-bc57-b04082e9fabb.png
 

Sanchez

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Now it's time for negotiations if they haven't already did those during the last 2.5 years. Exact number and type of systems to be sold, offset deals, and possible license production etc will be negotiated now. Can take a few weeks to months.
"Ministry of National Defence sources said that the official congressional notification for the procurement of 40 F-16 Block-70 and Viper Modernization of 79 F-16 aircraft and various other materials for the F-16 procurement and modernization process and use and the F-35 program was made by the US administration on January 26, 2024, and the congressional approval process regarding our requests was completed on February 11, 2024.

We expect to receive draft Offers and Letters of Acceptance by the end of February.

The schedule is expected to enter into force in June-July 2024, following our review of the Offer and Acceptance letters and finalization of the project together with the US authorities.

We continue our negotiations to carry out the modernization activities and the production processes of the aircraft to be procured in our country.


Contrary to the claims regarding the use of the F-16s to be procured and modernized, as we have emphasized before, there are no conditions."
 

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