TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Fairon]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576323726031097857

I guess we are not solving our problem economicaly.

If it is possible we should buy Eurofighter(later versions).

In the meantime I hope our decision makers are considering developing a light fighter as well. Hurjet won't be enough and operating all MMU Airforce will be too expensive.

 

[Ryder]

Oh a good time to cut the rope with the USA.

Those F16Vs are better off in a museum.

 

[Ryder]

When I buy a car I drive it where the fck I want.

Same with the F16s.

 

[Yasar_TR]

existing blk30s and 40s should be subjected to Ozgur treatment ASAP.
as for the upgrading of blk50s to blk70s, we must wait for conditions in the US congress to take shape. if the preconditions previously mentioned go through all the way, we'll tell'em to fuck off and start the litigation procedures for our 1.5 B$. we must also start giving the Blk50's the Ozgur procedure as well. no need to follow through with the deals of a dealbreaker.
the question on my mind is, could we ever possibly find a way to upgrade those T1's to modern standards? surely there must be a way to figure it out?

From what I can understand, upgrading T1 to T3 or T4 level requires major work and UK MOD has reported that it is “prohibitively expensive due to budgetary constraints”. But if they can do a deal as it will be sold to an export customer together with say 40+ new tranche 4 planes, may be an initial squadron of the T1 can still have the latest specs.
Spain is having their T1s upgraded with many T3 equipment being fitted. But the newest Aesa radar is not among them. Again due to high cost involved probably.

Problem with Eurofighter is Germany. They produce a good number of the parts of this plane. The engine is manufactured by Eurojet GMBH .
They can exercise their right to block the sale or put presale conditions on the deal. (They had already blocked 48 plane sale of BAE Systems to Saudi Arabia after Kaşıkçı murder)
Even if the engine is produced in Turkey under license and the assembly parts of the engine comes from Bristol UK and the body parts from Preston UK, due to being a member of consortium, could they still block or set conditions on the sale? That needs to be addressed first.

 

[bisbis]

I will be very happy not to buy a plane from the USA. Buying an F16 would be an unnecessary expense when we have good projects like Kızılelma and Mmu.

My guess is that when the Ef 2000 sale gets serious, Europeans will put forward ridiculous conditions like the US.

So in the end, we will continue on the road with Kızılelma and Mmu.

 

[Brokengineer]

Considering economic pressure under europe (especially Germany coming from account surplus to deficit), a sizeable order (40+20 tranche 4) could Come from TurAF could be attractive.

 

[Lool]

Considering economic pressure under europe (especially Germany coming from account surplus to deficit), a sizeable order (40+20 tranche 4) could Come from TurAF could be attractive.

Mate
Germany is under the mercy of Russia, PKK, Greek and Israeli lobbies

Economy is secondary to the germans! Rn, what politicians want is fqing votes and such lobbies can ruin them

 

[Glass🚬]

Mate
Germany is under the mercy of Russia, PKK, Greek and Israeli lobbies

Economy is secondary to the germans! Rn, what politicians want is fqing votes and such lobbies can ruin them

That is so wrong, economy and financial state is always the first priority, there are also no ethnic lobbies in germany with great influence, they wont make it far. There is a flawed german perspective on geopolitcal events but even that is changing, there isnt much luxury anymore to have an arrogant approach to a lot of topics like it used to be.

 

[dBSPL]

Perhaps the Germans will not stand firm against this 'possible' purchase. T1's, which have been for sale for a long time in the UK's hands, will be modernized, and another -major airforce- is entering the client list with the possible new orders. This is a huge win for every single company in the eurofighter ecosystem. In other words, if Germany exhibits a strong barrier and harms these countries in an issue where Italy and the UK will benefit economically (+politically), other complications may arise in the relations between these countries.

 

[Ecderha]

Perhaps the Germans will not stand firm against this 'possible' purchase. T1's, which have been for sale for a long time in the UK's hands, will be modernized, and another -major airforce- is entering the client list with the possible new orders. This is a huge win for every single company in the eurofighter ecosystem. In other words, if Germany exhibits a strong barrier and harms these countries in an issue where Italy and the UK will benefit economically (+politically), other complications may arise in the relations between these countries.

"Perhaps the Germans will not stand firm against this 'possible' purchase"
Why you think that german state against Turkiye is changed?
Are there any official parliament passed law notification stating that Embargo against Turkiye is removed?

Or we talking about Naive thought?

 

[Agha Sher]

Although Eurofighter is a good option in the short-term to maintain Turkish air superiority in the region (expect Israel), I am against a big order of +40 aircrafts.
Turkey needs to maintain urgency on MIUS, TF-X and Hurjet.

24-36 Eurofighters at T3 level would be optimal and enough.

Also, this number would ensure that Turkey is not too reliant on Germany if trouble in relations should increase even further.

 

[dBSPL]

"Perhaps the Germans will not stand firm against this 'possible' purchase"
Why you think that german state against Turkiye is changed?
Are there any official parliament passed law notification stating that Embargo against Turkiye is removed?

Or we talking about Naive thought?

I do not know enough about the legal background of Eurofighter Gmbh. So just a guess. I think the most important advantage here is that EF's industrial property does not belong to a single country. In this sense, it differs from examples such as the F-16, Gripen and Rafale. Planes can be purchased over the UK. this way, can get around behind the arms embargo of Germany.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I do not know enough about the legal background of Eurofighter Gmbh. So just a guess. I think the most important advantage here is that EF's industrial property does not belong to a single country. In this sense, it differs from examples such as the F-16, Gripen and Rafale. Planes can be purchased over the UK. this way, can get around behind the arms embargo of Germany.

The Typhoon aircraft was designed and developed by UK. it’s engines were developed from XG40 engine of Rolls Royce. The first prototype used a modified tornado engine and built in Preston UK.
But as it is a production that is undertaken by a consortium of 4 countries, it is not clear which country or company holds the Intellectual Property rights of this aircraft and it’s engine.
UK’s RR uses it’s Bristol Plant to produce the engines for her own use. But which parts are imported, if any, is a mystery. If there are German parts used in the engine, then it could be a problem. The body of the plane and most of it’s parts are manufactured by the contributing countries. Again the UK produces a big percentage of the parts in Preston UK where the UK Typhoons are assembled.
As I mentioned in my previous post, purchasing the planes via UK doesn’t absolve you from Germany’s wrath. They blocked a UK sale to Saudi Arabia before.

 

[Fairon]

Is there a posibility that we can replace non British parts in local production?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Is there a posibility that we can replace non British parts in local production?

That is the logical solution for the engines. If engines were manufactured in TAEC (Kale/RR), using parts made by TEI and TAEC, then Germany shouldn’t be a party to it; Especially if the engine name is changed like we did for T700-TEI 701D for the Blackhawks.
But there is the problem of actual name of the plane - Eurofighter. That plane is manufactured by 4 countries. UK can’t sell that plane on it’s own. All four countries get a share of the profits.
The only other alternative that comes to mind is the T1 versions are upgraded no matter the cost and are sold on to us with guarantees provided that there are no restrictions for engines or parts due to other members not playing ball.
Otherwise the other partners have to pressurise Germany to make the sale and/or appeal to Germany’s good nature.

 

[bisbis]

Kardak krizi: Pangalos ve Öymen 1996'yı anlattı - BBC News Türkçe

BBC'nin tarih programı Witness, yirmi yılı aşkın bir süre önce yaşanan Kardak Krizi'nin tanıkları eski Yunan Dışişleri Bakanı Theodoros Pangalos ve Dışişleri müsteşarı Onur Öymen'le konuştu.

www.bbc.com

Friends, after reading the news I shared, I think your ideas about purchasing foreign military equipment will change.

 

[Manomed]

Kardak krizi: Pangalos ve Öymen 1996'yı anlattı - BBC News Türkçe

BBC'nin tarih programı Witness, yirmi yılı aşkın bir süre önce yaşanan Kardak Krizi'nin tanıkları eski Yunan Dışişleri Bakanı Theodoros Pangalos ve Dışişleri müsteşarı Onur Öymen'le konuştu.

www.bbc.com

Friends, after reading the news I shared, I think your ideas about purchasing foreign military equipment will change.

yeah lets lose the air superiority

 

[bisbis]

yeah lets lose the air superiority

What kind of air superiority do you expect in a conflict where missiles fired from US-made aircraft will shoot fish?

I think in today's political conditions, missiles fired by Türk planes can hit fish, but missiles fired by Greek planes can hit our planes. The usa does not allow our planes to shoot down greek planes, but it does allow greek planes to shoot down our planes.

 

[Heartbang]

What kind of air superiority do you expect in a conflict where missiles fired from US-made aircraft will shoot fish?

I think in today's political conditions, missiles fired by Türk planes can hit fish, but missiles fired by Greek planes can hit our planes. The usa does not allow our planes to shoot down greek planes, but it does allow greek planes to shoot down our planes.

we are not THAT desperate. in fact there's enough evidence to show the very contrary to that might happen.

 

[GoatsMilk]

what happens when the americans order the british not to supply Turkey parts?