TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,017
Reactions
8 3,638
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
I've watched the program of Hakan Kiliç with Levent Özgül, unfortunately the question that is burning in my mind has not come up.

We have requested 40 new F16blk 70'ties and 80 upgrade kits

If looking at the inventory we have:
40 F16 blk 50 from Peace Onyx II (delivered in 1996-97 (25 years old)
40 F16 blk 50 from Peace Onyx III (delivered in 1998-99 (23 years old)
30 F16 blk 50+ from Peace Onyx IV (delivered in (2011-12) (10 years old)


More precise we have 76 blk 50 + 29 blk 50+ as we have lost some aircraft to crashes, so in total 105


I hope some of you guys can answer the burning questions on my mind:

1) We have 105 blk50 but requested 80 upgrade kits (why, is that not odd? Why not upgrade them all?)

2) We are planning to upgrade the block 30 and 40 with the Özgür upgrade program (142 F16's total), why is not also the blk 50 slated for the Özgür program instead of asking the US for Blk70 kits?


I've asked through twitter Hakan Kiliç the same question for the blk 50's and have not (yet) got a satisfying answer for that, possibly he doesn't know either.
 

Cenkcnk

Committed member
Messages
195
Reactions
1 389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
This Block 70 discussion started months ago. Why don't we hear any progress?
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,269
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
I've watched the program of Hakan Kiliç with Levent Özgül, unfortunately the question that is burning in my mind has not come up.

We have requested 40 new F16blk 70'ties and 80 upgrade kits

If looking at the inventory we have:
40 F16 blk 50 from Peace Onyx II (delivered in 1996-97 (25 years old)
40 F16 blk 50 from Peace Onyx III (delivered in 1998-99 (23 years old)
30 F16 blk 50+ from Peace Onyx IV (delivered in (2011-12) (10 years old)


More precise we have 76 blk 50 + 29 blk 50+ as we have lost some aircraft to crashes, so in total 105


I hope some of you guys can answer the burning questions on my mind:

1) We have 105 blk50 but requested 80 upgrade kits (why, is that not odd? Why not upgrade them all?)

2) We are planning to upgrade the block 30 and 40 with the Özgür upgrade program (142 F16's total), why is not also the blk 50 slated for the Özgür program instead of asking the US for Blk70 kits?


I've asked through twitter Hakan Kiliç the same question for the blk 50's and have not (yet) got a satisfying answer for that, possibly he doesn't know either.
My only logical guess would be, because the time limit on those blocks for “untouchability” is still valid. That is why we are requesting US to upgrade them. Also the newer planes will be more worth their while to spend dollars on them. Older ones can go through local “Ozgur” upgrade.
Also if you look at the below list they are probably only asking for peace onyx 3 and 4 (80 planes) to be upgraded.
As they gradually go through the motions of upgrading others to Ozgur, the peace onyx 2 planes, some 40 or so, will be upgraded locally when they become “touchable” in 2026 to 2027. (30 years??)
Just a guess!! I hope some one has more concrete info on this.

1642239068313.png
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,474
Reactions
17 5,211
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Damn that was a really exhausting program...

Hakan Kilic asks him a question, Levent Özgül tries to explain, get's interupted and then he literally answers his own question too much talking about small unecessary things, it was also annoying that he complained when Mr. Özgül's answer/view didn't suit, immediately trying to avoid discussion and move on to the next question, that's rude and not how a discussion should look like.

Especially the parts where IAF vs KSAF, EF-2000/Rafale vs F-22, example of Rafale for the TuAF...

 

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,017
Reactions
8 3,638
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yes they've all had the CCIP upgrade.

That is not the point, my point is why the Block 50 (peace onyx II & III) are not getting the Özgür upgrade, why do we ask the US for Blk 70 kits?
 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,821
Reactions
20 4,648
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
Yes they've all had the CCIP upgrade.

That is not the point, my point is why the Block 50 (peace onyx II & III) are not getting the Özgür upgrade, why do we ask the US for Blk 70 kits?
Others on the forum mentioned that the reason is because the americans are holding the money that turkey gave them, so to get their money back they make the us upgrade them instead of using own resources.
 
T

Turko

Guest
Damn that was a really exhausting program...

Hakan Kilic asks him a question, Levent Özgül tries to explain, get's interupted and then he literally answers his own question too much talking about small unecessary things, it was also annoying that he complained when Mr. Özgül's answer/view didn't suit, immediately trying to avoid discussion and move on to the next question, that's rude and not how a discussion should look like.

Especially the parts where IAF vs KSAF, EF-2000/Rafale vs F-22, example of Rafale for the TuAF...

İt wasn't so bad. I found the video informative. Especially about F-15 X:)



no matter USA have f22-F35 they will also use F15X.

Damn 20-30 F15X would be great in TurAF until MMU is operational.
 

fq5n9v

Member
Messages
15
Reactions
12
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Damn that was a really exhausting program...

Hakan Kilic asks him a question, Levent Özgül tries to explain, get's interupted and then he literally answers his own question too much talking about small unecessary things, it was also annoying that he complained when Mr. Özgül's answer/view didn't suit, immediately trying to avoid discussion and move on to the next question, that's rude and not how a discussion should look like.

Especially the parts where IAF vs KSAF, EF-2000/Rafale vs F-22, example of Rafale for the TuAF...


I just realized the title of the video. Hakan Kılıç stresses that he isn't asking for Turkey and when Levent Özgül explains why those aircraft aren't good for Turkey shuts him down yet puts a title that says ''wich aircraft should Turkey get instead of F-35 and F-16''. What an...
 

Brokengineer

Committed member
Messages
239
Reactions
1 480
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Hakan kılıç invites a guest and does mostly monologue instead of making dialoge which is frustrating. It is like "you are invited but it my program" kind of conversations happening.
 

Fuzuli NL

Experienced member
Germany Correspondent
Messages
3,041
Reactions
26 8,680
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
"Conclusion

Turkey's breakthrough in drone technology and deployment came as a surprise to many
observers. The effectiveness of armed drones, especially against much advertised air defence
systems in Syria, Libya and Nagorno Karabakh was indeed unexpected. However, this
outcome is the result of more than 25 years of accumulation of operational and industrial
experience as well as investment in technology and human capital. Turkey is one of the few
countries which noticed the importance and effectiveness of armed drones in counter-
terrorism and border security operations as well as cross border missions. It is worth
underlining that Turkish drones have achieved a delicate balance between performance and
cost, a factor which contributed to the significant export success.
As a result, it can be claimed that Turkey's experience with drones is a significant case study
for the impact of development and successful deployment of advanced technologies in foreign
policy."
 
M

Manomed

Guest
US Department of State; Turkey's demand for the purchase of 40 Block70 F16 fighter jets and 80 Block70 modernization kits is warm, on the grounds of preserving the current balance of power in the Aegean and equipping its NATO allies against the increasing threat in the Black Sea.

-US Foreign Affairs Resources
 

Stuka

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
713
Reactions
5 4,540
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Paul Iddon
Contributor Aerospace & Defense

Turkey Needs To Follow UAE’s Lead And Acquire A 4.5-Generation Stopgap Fighter​


The United Arab Emirates' landmark deal to procure 80 cutting-edge Dassault Rafale multirole fighter jets from France gives the Emirati Air Force a highly formidable interim solution until it finally takes delivery of the F-35 Lightning II or another fifth-generation fighter.

Turkey, on the other hand, still needs a similar stopgap solution and may find itself in a bind if the U.S. refuses to sell the advanced F-16s and modernization kits Ankara recently requested.


Dassault Aviation was ecstatic in early December after it reached a deal to sell 80 Rafale jets and 12 transport helicopters to the UAE for $19 billion.

Dassault said the deal was "the largest ever obtained by the French combat aeronautics industry," and its CEO Éric Trappier even called it the "most important contract ever obtained by the French military aeronautics industry."

A French Air Force Dassault Rafale C jet fighter performs...

DUBAI, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES - 2019/11/19: A French Air Force Dassault Rafale C jet fighter performs ... [+]

For the UAE, the deal is also very significant. It's the most sophisticated fighter Abu Dhabi has ordered in 20 years, the last being the procurement of its advanced fleet of F-16s at the turn of the century.
In the late 1990s, the UAE ordered almost 80 Block 60 F-16s for $8 billion. That deal was hugely significant at the time since it "marked the first time the United States had sold a better aircraft overseas than its own forces fly."

The Rafales the UAE has purchased will similarly give its air force a highly advanced and formidable fighter that will likely enable its air force to deal with threats on and over the modern battlefield for years to come.
France is selling the UAE the latest version of the Rafale, the F4. The French Air Force is depending on such highly-advanced Rafales to serve as an interim solution until it can field a six-generation European-developed stealth fighter in the next 15-20 years (neither France nor Germany are buying F-35s).

"As France must wait nearly two decades before a European stealth fighter can enter service, its armed forces are betting that in the interim adding networked sensors and weapons to the Rafale's superior kinematic performance and powerful electronic warfare systems will keep the agile jet relevant in an era of proliferating stealth aircraft and long-range surface-to-air missiles," wrote military aviation analyst Sebastien Roblin.

UAE-FRANCE-AIRSHOW-DASSAULT

A French air force (Armee de l'air) Dassault Rafale multirole fighter aircraft performs aerial ... [+]

Roblin also noted that the Rafale F4 "introduces additional network-centric warfare capabilities and data-logistics similar to those on the F-35 Lightning, enabling Rafales on patrol to build a more accurate picture of the battlespace by pooling their sensors over a secure network, and even exchange data using new satellite communications antenna."

In late 2020, the UAE ordered 50 F-35s and 18 MQ-8 Reaper drones for $23 billion. Abu Dhabi insisted the Rafale deal was not a replacement or substitute for the F-35. Nevertheless, shortly after that French deal was signed, the UAE said it was suspending discussions on acquiring F-35s.
"Technical requirements, sovereign operational restrictions, and cost/benefit analysis led to the reassessment," a UAE official told Reuters. Discussions, the official added, "may be re-opened in the future."
This could well be a negotiating tactic on Abu Dhabi's part to get Washington to ease some of the conditions and restrictions around procuring the fifth-generation aircraft.

UAE-ROYALS-AIRSHOW

Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed bin Rashid Al-Maktoum, Crown Prince of Dubai, inspects the open cockpit ... [+]

Either way, the UAE is not likely to get F-35s until the second half of the 2020s at the very earliest. If it does ultimately decide to pull out of the deal altogether, it won't likely acquire any fifth-generation fighter until sometime in the 2030s.
Between now and then, it will field one of the most cutting-edge 4.5-generation fighters on the market that will likely give its air force a technological edge over numerous threats it may face in the foreseeable future.


Turkey was a member of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program from its beginning two decades ago. In addition to buying up to 100 of the stealth fighters for its air force, Ankara would also have a lucrative role manufacturing hundreds of parts for the advanced fighter's supply chain.

However, the United States removed Turkey from the JSF program and banned it from buying any of the jets after Ankara bought advanced S-400 air defense missiles from Russia. Turkey's ambitious fifth-generation TAI TF-X stealth fighter project will not likely be complete until the 2030s at the very earliest.
Now that it has lost an opportunity to procure fifth-generation fighters for at least a decade, Turkey now needs a 4.5-generation stopgap solution. Here too, Ankara may have a problem. The backbone of Turkey's fighter fleet is made-up of 270 F-16s, mostly Block 30/40/50s. Without substantive upgrades or even replacements, these aircraft will start becoming obsolescent by the end of this decade.

'Blue Homeland 2019'

IZMIR, TURKEY - MARCH 05: F-16 fighter jet takes part in 'Blue Homeland 2019' naval drill in Izmir, ... [+]

It's, therefore, not at all surprising that Ankara is presently seeking 80 advanced Block 70 F-16s from the United States along with 80 modernization kits to upgrade existing aircraft in a $6 billion deal.
Block 70 F-16s would be the ideal stopgap option for Ankara since it has operated F-16s since 1987, with the third-largest fleet of the fighter-bombers on the planet. Furthermore, the Block 70 F-16 includes fifth-generation technologies developed for the F-35.
According to the manufacturer Lockheed Martin, the Block 70 "combines capability upgrades, most notably the advanced Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars with a new avionics architecture, and structural upgrades to extend the structural life of the aircraft by more than 50 percent beyond that of previous production F-16 aircraft."
"Operational capabilities are enhanced through an advanced datalink, targeting pod and weapons; precision GPS navigation, and life-saving Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS)."

Turkey may not get these aircraft anytime soon if Congress opposes the deal, which is a very strong possibility.
Turkey has repeatedly suggested that it will turn to Russia for comparative aircraft if Washington refuses to sell modernized F-16s. Here too, its options are limited.
Ankara could opt for a number of 4.5-generation Su-35 Flanker-Es from Moscow. But that would mean incurring additional sanctions from the United States under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

TURKEY-RUSSIA-POLITICS-DEFENCE

A Russian Sukhoi Su-35 fighter takes off during an air show at the Teknofest festival at Ataturk ... [+]

The Turkish Defense Ministry and state procurement agency reportedly drafted technical reports on the Russian jets.
"Both reports found the Russian warplanes technically insufficient and extremely costly due to Ankara's need for the adaption to the Russian systems," Breaking Defense reported in October.
Consequently, Turkey could find itself in an awkward position if Washington decides to call its bluff on buying Russian fighters. It could also find its air force facing a precarious situation if it can’t follow in the UAE’s footsteps and acquire a capable 4.5-generation stopgap fighter in the near future.

 

Akritas

Contributor
Messages
551
Reactions
510
Nation of residence
Greece
Nation of origin
Greece
US Department of State; Turkey's demand for the purchase of 40 Block70 F16 fighter jets and 80 Block70 modernization kits is warm, on the grounds of preserving the current balance of power in the Aegean and equipping its NATO allies against the increasing threat in the Black Sea.

-US Foreign Affairs Resources
Source?
Because the so called "US Foreign Affairs Resources" is not exist!!!
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom