Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

mehmed beg

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Yes, you absolutely apply rules subjectively and arbitrarily. Literally every nation, alliance, religion, etc does it in support of their interests, every single day. It's called being self-interested. Name me the perfectly sincere, always trustworthy, never selfishly motivated and always completely honest countries of "Eastern World" that we Westerners should strive to be like?

I get sooooo sick of listening to people from the "Eastern world" paint themselves as victims, all while actively competing, in every domain possible, against Western interests, then complaining when the West tries to out maneuver them. It's that cry baby BS that shouldn't be fooling anyone. The "Eastern World" has plenty of countries that simply choose a more constructive approach to geopolitics and enjoy healthy relationships with the West, despite our differences.

Saudi Arabia, UAE, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Taiwan, India and Turkey are good (although not perfect) examples of countries that don't necessarily share the typical religious foundations in Christianity, nor the customs shared by the West. However, they have developed quality geopolitical relationships with the West, including financial and military alliances. Why? Because they come to the table with common interests and the idea of shared success and mutual benefit.
Let's see here something.
In the case of Palestine you say may better man win, you are so dialectic but here you are not.
What was the most interesting that in one of your drivels in the Palestinian forum you were fine whatever Palestinian or pro Palestinian people do and you were fine whatever Israel does.
OK, if it is so and it is , why don't you say than that September 11 was OK and Usama Bin Laden was OK? I mean, didn't you say something on these lines? So it is natural conclusion, don't you think?
At the end of the day as you put it here " It is in our interest" so basically no moral .
So , though I am nor that, would you say that you are OK if I say for example that Al Qaida is ok?
If you don't like it than why is that?
By the way the mutual interest of Germany is really with Russia.
Before 1917 , it was the Germans who managed Russia.
Nowadays, Germany is a vassal state.
I don't like Germany at all but I have to say that , their interest is in Russia.
 
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mehmed beg

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It's not about being humane. It's about being self-interested, like everyone on the planet and warring with those that take issue with our values. You reference Christianity, but Islam is just as radical. The Quran literally calls for the death / jailing of non-believers (with a couple caveats). Societies have no business being run by antiquitated religious values, established in archaic times. There is no need for religious zealots, of any religion, to force their people into poverty and suffering, in an attempt to remain separated from the rest of the globalized world.

We live in a world that is dominated by alliances. Those alliances have foundational principles. Nations that adhere to and abide by those principles are welcomed into the alliances that they best align with.

The West is not the "bad guy" in this story. But we're not the "good guy" either. We're simply one of the alliances, one of the actors, through a variety of networks, in the world.
In which way Islam is radical?
Let's see, before The Raj came to india, india was the richest country and there was no beggars and desperation , was it?
I will just concentrate on my part, if Islam is what you say that it is than why I have the problems with Serbs and Croats? Also ,can you quote where in Qur'an orders the annihilation of none Muslims? The verse?
You see , you are very dumb, you don't realise that Muslims ain't like Christians, a great deal of us know what's written in Qur'an, don't you realise that? So skip that Orientalist nonsense, will you?
Religious Zelots and poverty? Let's not go into history now but in 20s and 30s there were over 1,5 million cases of the cannibalism in in none religious society in Europe, no?
Alliances? OK? For the great deal of the Cold War , France wasn't part of Nato , it seems to me that they were doing better then , then they do now?
Why would someone be in alliances unless it is beneficial to them? What is the benfit for Germany, France, Italy, Spain or many others to be against Russia?
To pay through the nose for gas, oil, food etc? To buy American and Israeli weapons and destroy their own technological base? To be without the option in many important situations? To share Anglo-Saxon baggage of the various mischief?
Oh , maybe you are talking about Funny Handshake Alliances? That's a different matter.
 

B_A

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They'll bitch, moan and throw a fit as per usual and the Japanese (who despise the Russians) will continue flipping them off.

In a non-nuclear scenario, there isn't a damn thing that Russia's Pacific Navy could do to the Japanese Naval Fleet, supported by the U.S. Navy, that wouldn't lead to the complete annihilation of Russia's blue water navy. Russia has lost 1/3 of their Black Sea Fleet, including the fleet's flagship, to a country without a Navy... Japan would brutalize them.

Short answer is that Putin will sit by and "take it". He has no other choice.
When will you help Japanese to take back north islands?
 

B_A

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Yes, you absolutely apply rules subjectively and arbitrarily. Literally every nation, alliance, religion, etc does it in support of their interests, every single day. It's called being self-interested. Name me the perfectly sincere, always trustworthy, never selfishly motivated and always completely honest countries of "Eastern World" that we Westerners should strive to be like?

I get sooooo sick of listening to people from the "Eastern world" paint themselves as victims, all while actively competing, in every domain possible, against Western interests, then complaining when the West tries to out maneuver them. It's that cry baby BS that shouldn't be fooling anyone. The "Eastern World" has plenty of countries that simply choose a more constructive approach to geopolitics and enjoy healthy relationships with the West, despite our differences.

Saudi Arabia, UAE, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Taiwan, India and Turkey are good (although not perfect) examples of countries that don't necessarily share the typical religious foundations in Christianity, nor the customs shared by the West. However, they have developed quality geopolitical relationships with the West, including financial and military alliances. Why? Because they come to the table with common interests and the idea of shared success and mutual benefit.
Korean is Christianity
 

Relic

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Let's see here something.
In the case of Palestine you say may better man win, you are so dialectic but here you are not.
What was the most interesting that in one of your drivels in the Palestinian forum you were fine whatever Palestinian or pro Palestinian people do and you were fine whatever Israel does.
OK, if it is so and it is , why don't you say than that September 11 was OK and Usama Bin Laden was OK? I mean, didn't you say something on these lines? So it is natural conclusion, don't you think?
At the end of the day as you put it here " It is in our interest" so basically no moral .
So , though I am nor that, would you say that you are OK if I say for example that Al Qaida is ok?
If you don't like it than why is that?
By the way the mutual interest of Germany is really with Russia.
Before 1917 , it was the Germans who managed Russia.
Nowadays, Germany is a vassal state.
I don't like Germany at all but I have to say that , their interest is in Russia.
Osama Bin Laden and September 11th were "ok". I didn't like them personally as a Westerner, because they negatively impacted our Western interests, but I don't think the people that perpetuated the attack were uniquely evil, in any way that we aren't. I don't think they are the "bad" guys and we are the "good" guys, simply because they chose to hijack planes and fly them into buildings and we instead choose to use superior air power to bomb the shit out of their cities and strongholds.

I don't know how many times I need to say it. Competing interests will fight. The best supplied and supported interest, with the most backing will win. It's incumbent on the loser of a conflict to recognize that they've lost and seek a peaceful means of resolving the conflict, realizing that to achieve peace and the safety of their populace, they're going to have to give concessions that they don't want to give. Such is life on the ground when we escape the dogshit realm of philosophy and enter the realm of reality.

Here would be my negotiated solutions to both conflicts.

Russia / Ukraine.

1. Russia gets to keep the parts of the Donbas that they've annexed, as well as Crimea, which they annexed in 2014. They get approximately 18% of Ukraine's territory, including the land in the south.

2. Ukraine keeps the remainder of its territory, is welcomed into the EU and NATO to ensure that Russia won't try to invade further in the future. Ukraine also signs a treaty saying that they will not make an attempt to take back the lands taken my Russia in this war.

3. Russian's agree to allow 50% the $400 billion usd in frozen currency and assets in European and American banks to be transferred to Ukraine for the rebuilding of repair of war damages done by Russia. The other 50% of the money is to be returned to Russia to rebuild their newly annexed communities.

Israel / Palestine

1. There is an immediate ceasefire in Palestine. If a single rocket is fired from Palestinian territory into Israeli territory post ceasefire, the ceasefire is lifted and Israel's bombing campaign resumes.

2. A 2 state solution is negotiated, with the removal of the vast majority of Israeli settlements in the West Bank being disbanded. Fair, stretegic lands swaps are agreed to in order for Palestinians to have freedom of movement between their territories, free from Israeli controls.

3. Palestine gains full autonomy to govern their country, free from Israeli import and export controls, in exchange for the removal of HAMAS from power and the free election of a new Palestinian government.

I'm all for negotiated peace and boundaries that are adhered to. But I'm also for the rights of all parties to defend themselves from attack, whether Russian, Ukrainian, Israeli or Palestinian. Know that if you attack somebody else, however, that a dear price will be paid for your transgressions.
 

Relic

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Korean is Christianity
A huge percentage of their population, as much as 60%, identify as non-religious. Only about 18% of their population identifies as Christian, the majority of which are Protestants.

I also notes that there are obvious religious and CULTURAL differences between the conventional West and the Eastern countries I noted. That point stands.
 

FiReFTW

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Osama Bin Laden and September 11th were "ok". I didn't like them personally as a Westerner, because they negatively impacted our Western interests, but I don't think the people that perpetuated the attack were uniquely evil, in any way that we aren't. I don't think they are the "bad" guys and we are the "good" guys, simply because they chose to hijack planes and fly them into buildings and we instead choose to use superior air power to bomb the shit out of their cities and strongholds.

I don't know how many times I need to say it. Competing interests will fight. The best supplied and supported interest, with the most backing will win. It's incumbent on the loser of a conflict to recognize that they've lost and seek a peaceful means of resolving the conflict, realizing that to achieve peace and the safety of their populace, they're going to have to give concessions that they don't want to give. Such is life on the ground when we escape the dogshit realm of philosophy and enter the realm of reality.

Here would be my negotiated solutions to both conflicts.

Russia / Ukraine.

1. Russia gets to keep the parts of the Donbas that they've annexed, as well as Crimea, which they annexed in 2014. They get approximately 18% of Ukraine's territory, including the land in the south.

2. Ukraine keeps the remainder of its territory, is welcomed into the EU and NATO to ensure that Russia won't try to invade further in the future. Ukraine also signs a treaty saying that they will not make an attempt to take back the lands taken my Russia in this war.

3. Russian's agree to allow 50% the $400 billion usd in frozen currency and assets in European and American banks to be transferred to Ukraine for the rebuilding of repair of war damages done by Russia. The other 50% of the money is to be returned to Russia to rebuild their newly annexed communities.

Israel / Palestine

1. There is an immediate ceasefire in Palestine. If a single rocket is fired from Palestinian territory into Israeli territory post ceasefire, the ceasefire is lifted and Israel's bombing campaign resumes.

2. A 2 state solution is negotiated, with the removal of the vast majority of Israeli settlements in the West Bank being disbanded. Fair, stretegic lands swaps are agreed to in order for Palestinians to have freedom of movement between their territories, free from Israeli controls.

3. Palestine gains full autonomy to govern their country, free from Israeli import and export controls, in exchange for the removal of HAMAS from power and the free election of a new Palestinian government.

I'm all for negotiated peace and boundaries that are adhered to. But I'm also for the rights of all parties to defend themselves from attack, whether Russian, Ukrainian, Israeli or Palestinian. Know that if you attack somebody else, however, that a dear price will be paid for your transgressions.

Interesting proposals for negionated solutions.

Especially considering Ukraine and Israel would never ever agree to those terms.
 

Soldier30

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An episode of the battle of Russian paratroopers of the 98th Airborne Division in the Chasov Yar area. In the video, the Russian group is moving towards a Ukrainian stronghold with bunkers and a sniper placed there.

 

mehmed beg

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Osama Bin Laden and September 11th were "ok". I didn't like them personally as a Westerner, because they negatively impacted our Western interests, but I don't think the people that perpetuated the attack were uniquely evil, in any way that we aren't. I don't think they are the "bad" guys and we are the "good" guys, simply because they chose to hijack planes and fly them into buildings and we instead choose to use superior air power to bomb the shit out of their cities and strongholds.

I don't know how many times I need to say it. Competing interests will fight. The best supplied and supported interest, with the most backing will win. It's incumbent on the loser of a conflict to recognize that they've lost and seek a peaceful means of resolving the conflict, realizing that to achieve peace and the safety of their populace, they're going to have to give concessions that they don't want to give. Such is life on the ground when we escape the dogshit realm of philosophy and enter the realm of reality.

Here would be my negotiated solutions to both conflicts.

Russia / Ukraine.

1. Russia gets to keep the parts of the Donbas that they've annexed, as well as Crimea, which they annexed in 2014. They get approximately 18% of Ukraine's territory, including the land in the south.

2. Ukraine keeps the remainder of its territory, is welcomed into the EU and NATO to ensure that Russia won't try to invade further in the future. Ukraine also signs a treaty saying that they will not make an attempt to take back the lands taken my Russia in this war.

3. Russian's agree to allow 50% the $400 billion usd in frozen currency and assets in European and American banks to be transferred to Ukraine for the rebuilding of repair of war damages done by Russia. The other 50% of the money is to be returned to Russia to rebuild their newly annexed communities.

Israel / Palestine

1. There is an immediate ceasefire in Palestine. If a single rocket is fired from Palestinian territory into Israeli territory post ceasefire, the ceasefire is lifted and Israel's bombing campaign resumes.

2. A 2 state solution is negotiated, with the removal of the vast majority of Israeli settlements in the West Bank being disbanded. Fair, stretegic lands swaps are agreed to in order for Palestinians to have freedom of movement between their territories, free from Israeli controls.

3. Palestine gains full autonomy to govern their country, free from Israeli import and export controls, in exchange for the removal of HAMAS from power and the free election of a new Palestinian government.

I'm all for negotiated peace and boundaries that are adhered to. But I'm also for the rights of all parties to defend themselves from attack, whether Russian, Ukrainian, Israeli or Palestinian. Know that if you attack somebody else, however, that a dear price will be paid for your transgressions.
Good we are getting somewhere finally.
 

Relic

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When will you help Japanese to take back north islands?
Nobody is helping Japan take them back. I'm simply suggesting that the Russian Navy wants no part of the Japanese Navy, supported by its land based air power and backed up by the American Navy in the region.

After Russia lost 1/3 of it's Black Sea fleet to a nation without a Navy, what the West has always known has become obvious. Elements of the Russian Navy are obsolete in their ability to project Bluewater force.
 

Relic

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Interesting proposals for negionated solutions.

Especially considering Ukraine and Israel would never ever agree to those terms.
You have to give up something to end cycles of violence. The loser of a conflict has to feel like they got something they can sell to their populace to justify the war effort. The winners have to sell to their populace that they got enough to have made their effort worth it.
 

FiReFTW

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You have to give up something to end cycles of violence. The loser of a conflict has to feel like they got something they can sell to their populace to justify the war effort. The winners have to sell to their populace that they got enough to have made their effort worth it.

By logic you are right, but alot of leaders are very stubborn, for example I can never see Netanyahu agreeing to a 2 state solution and Palestine existing, ever.
 

Relic

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Crazy story from Trudovskoye in the Donetsk region today.

Three companies (4th, 5th and 6th) of infantry from Russia's 🇷🇺 36th Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade from Borzya in the Trans-Bailkal region were lined in formation today, waiting to be briefed by Russian Major General Oleg Moiseyev. A Ukrainian drone spotted the formation, which was in a fairly open field and sent the information to HIMARS team. They subsequently launched 2 GMLRS rockets, which both got the formation, scattering bodies across the field. Reports state that more than 60 soldiers were killed instantly when the GMLRS rockets struck

The following Telegram link contains a slide show and multiple videos of the corpses post attack... Definitely NSFL.

 

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