Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Soldier30]

Ukrainian servicemen showed an episode of counteraction to the Russian FPV drone in the Donetsk direction. The servicemen noticed the drone and started firing at it with small arms, but they were unable to destroy the drone. Since there could have been several drones, the soldiers retreated and used the forest belt as cover. As a result of a short battle, the drone destroyed the pickup truck. The video has been shortened.

 

[Soldier30]

The Russian army continues to use Geran-2 kamikaze drones to strike Ukrainian military registration and enlistment offices. The video published by residents of Kremenchuk shows Geran-2 drone strikes on the local military registration and enlistment office. The drone strikes were confirmed by Ukrainian journalist and video blogger Anatoly Shariy. Technical information about the drones is on the channel. The consequences of the drone strikes on the Kremenchuk military registration and enlistment office are shown at the end of the video.

 

[Spitfire9]

I hope the war of attrition continues. >20 trillion USD GDP on one side versus <3 trillion USD GDP on the other. I think the evidence shows which side is winning, which is losing. Keep up the good work squeezing the life out of your economy and finances, Putin!

 

[TR_123456]

I hope the war of attrition continues. >20 trillion USD GDP on one side versus <3 trillion USD GDP on the other. I think the evidence shows which side is winning, which is losing. Keep up the good work squeezing the life out of your economy and finances, Putin!

You are not realistic.
Russia is not losing,as i have told you many times before,in this case economy GDP or whatever else doesnt matter.
Russia can go on for a decade,can the West?

 

[sup_lol]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1941455975497728085

Hey man I mean if I had nothing else left other than my age I too would want to go out in a rush of adrenaline rather than whittling away at home

 

[contricusc]

Russia can go on for a decade,can the West?

The West can go on forever if the current situation drags on. The only question is for how long can Ukraine go on, considering the manpower issues. If Ukraine can provide the men, the West can provide the money.

As things stand right now, the cost of the war is basically zero for the West. I mean, we are hearing talk of 5% of GDP for military spending in NATO, while the current war is sustained with much lower spending than that.

Think about what Europe can spend when the going gets tough. Here are some examples:

Greek bailouts: Greece received three major bailout packages between 2010 and 2015, totaling approximately €289 billion.

Post Covid recovery: NextGenerationEU is a more than €800 billion temporary recovery instrument to help repair the immediate economic and social damage brought about by the coronavirus pandemic.

Part of the NextGenerationEU package is the Resilience and Recovery Facility (RRF), and a big chunk of it has now been dedicated to boosting defense. Defense projects can now apply for a chunk of the remaining €335 billion — initially earmarked for climate and digital investment.

Source:

EU frees up billions in Covid cash for defense spending

Defense projects can now apply for a chunk of the remaining €335 billion — initially earmarked for climate and digital investment.

www.politico.eu

As a comparison, from the start of the war until April 30 this year, Europe spent 156 billion Euros to help Ukraine. This is the support given during three years and three months of war.

So at the same rate, 10 more years of war would cost Europe an additional 500 billion euros. This is much less than the special post-Covid recovery fund.

If Russia thinks it can outlst Europe in an economic battle, it is hallucinating.

Helping Ukraine with 50 billion Euros per year has absolutely zero effect for European economies. Even if the effort would have to be doubled to replace the US, it would still be insignificant.

Life in Europe is unchanged by the war in Ukraine, while life in Russia is going to get harder and harder.

 

[Spitfire9]

You are not realistic.
Russia is not losing,as i have told you many times before,in this case economy GDP or whatever else doesnt matter.
Russia can go on for a decade,can the West?

I must have quoted hundreds of items of data from respected sources on this thread. You may tell me Russia is not losing, as you have told me many times before,in this case economy GDP or whatever else doesnt matter.Russia can go on for a decade.

Give me data to support your assertion. From the data I say Russia has very serious economic + financial problems + is heading for much more acute economic + financial problems that will force it to rein back on military spending.

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of the destruction of a Ukrainian 155-mm howitzer M777 and a military tractor, on the right bank of the Dnieper, in the Kherson direction. The attack was carried out by several drones at once, first the howitzer was hit by ammunition drops from drones, then an attack was carried out by FPV drones. M777 howitzers have been produced in the United States since 2005 by BAE Systems. Howitzers are capable of hitting targets at a range of up to 40 km using M982 Excalibur shells. Ukraine received 130 M777A2 howitzers for 2024, about 100 howitzers have already been destroyed.

 

[harris]

That‘s a very bad move on their part, as it will antagonize Europe. Trump’s reign was a great chance for China to improve relations with Europe, but if they support Russia, they are choosing the losing side.

Europe is nothing for china, just Europe itself think they are important

Actually usa drag Europe off the table, push them on the menu

The french president said he want to join this years Chinese military parade, but china will not invite him
maybe trump, maybe putin

 

[contricusc]

Europe is nothing for china, just Europe itself think they are important

The EU’s GDP is actually higher than China’s, and if you add non EU countries from Europe like the UK, Switzerland and Norway, the differences becomes significant.

So from an economic perspective, you’re looking at the second most powerful region after the United States.

China does a lot of trade with Europe, and it would have been a natural ally to counterbalance the US and Russia. But unfortunately, Xi Jinping feels more aligned with Putin because of ideological (authoritarian) principles, rather than follow the geopolitical logic of forging ties with Europe.

Trump has been courting Putin in order to contain China. The natural answer from China should have been to court Europe to counter the US.

 

[harris]

The EU’s GDP is actually higher than China’s, and if you add non EU countries from Europe like the UK, Switzerland and Norway, the differences becomes significant.

So from an economic perspective, you’re looking at the second most powerful region after the United States.

China does a lot of trade with Europe, and it would have been a natural ally to counterbalance the US and Russia. But unfortunately, Xi Jinping feels more aligned with Putin because of ideological (authoritarian) principles, rather than follow the geopolitical logic of forging ties with Europe.

Trump has been courting Putin in order to contain China. The natural answer from China should have been to court Europe to counter the US.

I have ever travelled in Europe.
European infrastructure and social public service lagged far behind china.
For the same thing, the price of Europe is 3 to 5 times higher than china.
So forget GDP, it is just math games to be used to let yourself feel better.

Now it is the time of AI+robot+green electric, Europe have none of them.

 

[Yasar_TR]

China does a lot of trade with Europe, and it would have been a natural ally to counterbalance the US and Russia. But unfortunately, Xi Jinping feels more aligned with Putin because of ideological (authoritarian) principles, rather than follow the geopolitical logic of forging ties with Europe.

This is the level of democracy in China. One party rule is not democracy. One man rule is dictatorship.
China has got a lot to learn from Europe. If it weren’t for the cheap labour that attracted Europeans and western companies, China would still be struggling at the fringes of Asia. The very Europeans @harris looks down on are the ones that taught starving Chinese to build cars, trains, computers and planes. There are still thousands of Chinese students in European Universities studying to bring back knowledge and expertise back to China. Why, because they know that Europe is ahead of them.
What they have achieved in such comparatively short time is nothing but to be admired. However there is still a lot of road before anyone can claim China to be ahead of Europe, economically and more importantly socially.
Wealth in China is distributed unevenly, with a small percentage of the population holding a large share of the country's wealth, while a significant portion of the population has limited assets.

How well-off is China's middle class?

China’s economic development has lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty and resulted in a burgeoning middle class.

chinapower.csis.org

So my recommendation to @harris is, before badmouthing Europe and looking silly in here where no one will take him seriously, I would provide concrete sources and figures to support his claims and tone down the criticism to civilised levels; that is if he wants to stay here and contribute to the forum.

 

[harris]

This is the level of democracy in China. One party rule is not democracy. One man rule is dictatorship.
China has got a lot to learn from Europe. If it weren’t for the cheap labour that attracted Europeans and western companies, China would still be struggling at the fringes of Asia. The very Europeans @harris looks down on are the ones that taught starving Chinese to build cars, trains, computers and planes. There are still thousands of Chinese students in European Universities studying to bring back knowledge and expertise back to China. Why, because they know that Europe is ahead of them.
What they have achieved in such comparatively short time is nothing but to be admired. However there is still a lot of road before anyone can claim China to be ahead of Europe, economically and more importantly socially.
Wealth in China is distributed unevenly, with a small percentage of the population holding a large share of the country's wealth, while a significant portion of the population has limited assets.

How well-off is China's middle class?

China’s economic development has lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty and resulted in a burgeoning middle class.

chinapower.csis.org

So my recommendation to @harris is, before badmouthing Europe and looking silly in here where no one will take him seriously, I would provide concrete sources and figures to support his claims and tone down the criticism to civilised levels; that is if he wants to stay here and contribute to the forum.

Some of the rich families send their children to Europe to study, because their children can't get into a university in China.
The entrance and further education exams for Chinese universities are very strict.
But if you have money, it is relatively easy to study in Europe. in chinese human resource market, HR more prefer local students. they know only students who can't pass Chinese university exam go to European university.

china beat Europe in industry, not because low human resource, it is because AI+ robots
it is automatic factory all over China

in china, you are safe even you are a girl going outside in the late night.
the city is clean, the road is new and broad, the Internet is fast, the price of everything is much more lower.

 

[Relic]

The United States announced the resumption of weapons to Ukraine today. Trump noted that most of the weapons sent will be defensive in nature.

The Pentagon released an official statement, but gone are the days in which the Americans release fact sheets and bulletins on the weapons they're sending. I'm sure we'll hear of some things leaking in the coming days.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/4236261/statement-by-chief-pentagon-spokesman-sean-parnell-on-ukraine-military-aid/

Redirect Notice

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of two Ukrainian T-64 and T-80 tanks being destroyed by Russian FPV drones. The drones actually finished off the tanks. The video was shot near the village of Belaya Gora in the Donetsk region. The T-64 and T-80 tanks were produced in the USSR. These tanks are also used by the Russian army. Surprisingly, the T-80 tank has no protection, and its gun is covered, so perhaps the tank was transferred somewhere. Unlike it, the T-64 is seriously protected, it has a lattice protection like "Tsar Mangal", despite this the tank is already damaged. Presumably, the tank ran over a mine.

 

[contricusc]

For the same thing, the price of Europe is 3 to 5 times higher than china.
So forget GDP, it is just math games to be used to let yourself feel better.

I do agree that GDP is misleading in many ways, because of the price difference. But nominal GDP is still very relevant when it comes to the money available for imports and investment. When China buys oil from Saudi Arabia, it pays the same price as Europeans. It doesn’t matter that in China some products and services are cheaper than in Europe. When it comes to imports, they pay the same, and the higher GDP means more purchasing power.

Now it is the time of AI+robot+green electric, Europe have none of them.

While China may be ahead in some fields, it is behind Europe in many others.
They are more or less on the same level when it comes to total economic power, and it would be much more beneficial for China to befriend Europe instead of Russia, which is just a glorified gas station.

china beat Europe in industry, not because low human resource, it is because AI+ robots
it is automatic factory all over China

And you think European factories are not automated? The main advantages of China when it comes to manufacturing were the low wages and low environmental and safety standards. This is how it managed to attract so much industry. It is true that in recent times it has increased automation and productivity (wages have also increased), but don’t forget that a lot of the machinery that helps automate industry is made in Europe.

in china, you are safe even you are a girl going outside in the late night.
the city is clean, the road is new and broad, the Internet is fast, the price of everything is much more lower.

In most of Europe it is safe to go out late at night for everyone, and it is clean. But yes, there are some places where safety has deteriorated because of the uncontrolled immigration. Those are the exception, not the norm.

It’s true that the road infrastructure is lacking and needs upgrading, and that prices are higher than in China, but at least it is cheaper than in the US.

Anyway, the fact that China is on par with Europe at many levels, is even more advanced in some, and laggs behind in others, it doesn’t mean that China should ignore it’s strongest potential partner in counterbalancing US power for the sake of helping useless Russia.

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of the use of the X-39 LMUR guided missile in combat in Ukraine by the Russian M-28NM helicopter. These missiles are also used by Ka-52 helicopters. The video was filmed in the village of Tyaginka in the Kherson region. The missile hit the Ukrainian FPV drone control center, located in an abandoned building. The missile hit the doorway.

Technical information on the X-39 LMUR missile, also called "Product 305"

 

[Soldier30]

Ukrainian media published footage of a Russian armored vehicle column breaking through to the village of Novoekonomicheskoe, west of Mirnograd in the Pokrovsk direction. A group of armored vehicles broke through from Mirolyubovka and landed troops in the village of Novoekonomicheskoe. In the video, you can see attacks by Ukrainian FPV drones on armored vehicles; judging by the video, not a single tank was hit. The armored vehicle column consists of a lead tank and presumably several infantry fighting vehicles. All the vehicles are equipped with Tsar-Manlal-type protection, thanks to which the vehicles survived.

 

[harris]

I do agree that GDP is misleading in many ways, because of the price difference. But nominal GDP is still very relevant when it comes to the money available for imports and investment. When China buys oil from Saudi Arabia, it pays the same price as Europeans. It doesn’t matter that in China some products and services are cheaper than in Europe. When it comes to imports, they pay the same, and the higher GDP means more purchasing power.



While China may be ahead in some fields, it is behind Europe in many others.
They are more or less on the same level when it comes to total economic power, and it would be much more beneficial for China to befriend Europe instead of Russia, which is just a glorified gas station.



And you think European factories are not automated? The main advantages of China when it comes to manufacturing were the low wages and low environmental and safety standards. This is how it managed to attract so much industry. It is true that in recent times it has increased automation and productivity (wages have also increased), but don’t forget that a lot of the machinery that helps automate industry is made in Europe.



In most of Europe it is safe to go out late at night for everyone, and it is clean. But yes, there are some places where safety has deteriorated because of the uncontrolled immigration. Those are the exception, not the norm.

It’s true that the road infrastructure is lacking and needs upgrading, and that prices are higher than in China, but at least it is cheaper than in the US.

Anyway, the fact that China is on par with Europe at many levels, is even more advanced in some, and laggs behind in others, it doesn’t mean that China should ignore it’s strongest potential partner in counterbalancing US power for the sake of helping useless Russia.

China is psychologically accepting of Europe and also hopes for Europe's rise and be powerful

However, Europe has never shown an attitude of wanting to become an independent pole in the world. This attitude has disappointed China, so China has also lost patience with Europe.

if you are not independent pole, you should get off the table, be put into the menu. this is how trump treat Europe.

 

[contricusc]

if you are not independent pole, you should get off the table, be put into the menu. this is how trump treat Europe.

Yes, this is indeed how Trump is treating Europe. I just hope that Europeans will understand that without unity there is no future for Europe as a relevant global player.

Europe has many problems to solve, because it is made of many countries with different cultures, interests and languages, and a very confrontational past, but the project is advancing and with each new generation people will feel more European and less part of their nation.

Considering that half of Europe was under Soviet domination only 35 years ago, the things are progressing pretty well, and the war in Ukraine coupled with Trump’s attitude will help focus European unity and integration.

There is still a lot that needs to be done, but Europe will be back at the big guys table in a few decades, and it would be wise for China to choose Europe over Russia as an ally, because Russia is in an inevitable decline.