Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Gary]

So better make your industries to die and people losing their jobs? Only vile governments let that happen to their fellow countrymen just for the sake of libertarian nightwatchman state not intervene the market ideology.

I mean that's how logic works. the problem is, the West doesn't preach (and coerce) logic but cutthroat naivety that third worlders (mostly) swallow. Now that they're getting beaten at their own game, people with a working brain could measure if Western talking points actually worth the try.

And this is not just economics. This apply to ...well whatever the West preach, such as:

Women's role in politics
The idea of Western liberty
LGBTQ
Universalism of Democracy

and many more

So the burden of having to walk the talk is in the West. Not China, not Russia, not Indonesia or anyone else

 

[schuimpjes]

I mean that's how logic works. the problem is, the West doesn't preach (and coerce) logic but cutthroat naivety that third worlders (mostly) swallow. Now that they're getting beaten at their own game, people with a working brain could measure if Western talking points actually worth the try.

And this is not just economics. This apply to ...well whatever the West preach, such as:

Women's role in politics
The idea of Western liberty
LGBTQ
Universalism of Democracy

and many more

So the burden of having to walk the talk is in the West. Not China, not Russia, not Indonesia or anyone else

I knew where these talking points came from. Back then, libertarians were known or even called as “atheist fedora libertarian” but now the opposite, it just become US Tea Party movement. Even US Reason Rally was full of those people, but now, the total opposite values.

 

[Gary]

I knew where these talking points came from. Back then, libertarians were known or even called as “atheist fedora libertarian” but now the opposite,

Nope, these talking point evolve overtime from the great Western experiment of secularism, cum liberalism cum democracy cum etc etc

When people think that they could manage their own, they're keen to believe that they are infaliable. So we come the point where the West couldn't even identify if a person is a male or a female less they lose their job. These people are not in a position to be the moral example that thirld worlders is seeking for.

, it just become US Tea Party movement.

The tea party movement that the Republicans started couldn't be more ironic. They named it after the 1776 Boston Tea Party event.

Boston Tea Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That protested the tax of tea by the Monarchy in England that led to the declaration of Independence (and the American war of Independence)

Fast forward 247 years, Republicans are wasting tax money on Israel (and Ukraine) and any form of internal dissent by Americans are met with arrest and criminalization.

 

[schuimpjes]

That protested the tax of tea by the Monarchy in England that led to the declaration of Independence (and the American war of Independence)

“No tax without representation” was the slogan back then. Just bow down to the monarchy without democracy as British wanted was total authoritarianism.

 

[Gary]

“No tax without representation” was the slogan back then. Just bow down to the monarchy without democracy as British wanted was total authoritarianism.

The Americans are totally OK living under the crown and pay their shares for almost 70 years. Raise the tax 2% and they revolted.

Nowadays, American ruling class are collecting those tax, and instead of using that tax money for Americans, they siphoned it to foreign countries like Israel, and Americans are told to stay shut or risk losing their jobs and livelihoods by foreign agents like the ADL that operated under the blessings of Americans ruling elite.

And the American irony couldn't be anymore greater. those "representatives" are basically what the Red Coats were in the events leading up to the American revolution. Collect American money, use that money to siphoned it to the Crown (Israel) and crush down on dissent when Americans question why.

So the Americans are basically back at the same place they started .

 

[schuimpjes]

And the American irony couldn't be anymore greater. those "representatives" are basically what the Red Coats were in the events leading up to the American revolution. Collect American money, use that money to siphoned it to the Crown (Israel) and crush down on dissent when Americans question why.

Not again with this Zionist Occupied Government thingy. Zionism is just about Jewish people have their own country, about how the country act is different story.

You just kebetulan not born Jewish, if you are, I bet you would be with Ben Gvir or Smotrich.

 

[Gary]

Not again with this Zionist Occupied Government thingy.

To know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” . Voltaire

And this is the fact, the undeniable fact.

There's a reason why AIPAC controlled America is so hell bent on overthrowing the likes of Xi Jinping, Putin, Saddam etc. Because AIPAC can't thrive in that kind of environment.

Zionism is just about Jewish people have their own country, about how the country act is different story.

Nope it's an even longer story. Zionism is basically a bunch of people who can't stand seeing that the Jews are not put in (what is in their opinion) their rightful place in the world.

So they conspire to make way for their own fiefdom on top of people's suffering by means of deceit. And these Zionists...they are (I must admit) very patient.

Their journey doesn't actually start with Ben Gurion, Herzl or the likes. Their sepak terjang could be noted as far back as the French revolution, treaty of Westaphalia, the summoning of Sabbatai Zevi by Sultan Mehmet Avci and many more.

Like I said, the coming up of Israel is not something that come out of the blue, it is a result of carefuly orchestrated events and careful planting of order and norms that finally enable them to stand as a state. This why I said that the easiest thing you can do to help destroy their state as an individual, is make sure that democracy lose (starting with you and your family).

Without the current liberal world order, they will be again swallowed into irrelevance like what they used to be for 2000+ years.

You just kebetulan not born Jewish, if you are, I bet you would be with Ben Gvir or Smotrich.

Thanks god I'm not born a jew. But even Jews like Norman Finkelstein knows they're eventually at the wrong side of history.

Norman Finkelstein on Students "Crocodile Tears"

In 2008, Professor Norman Finkelstein, who came from a family deeply affected by the Holocaust, expressed profound indignation over what he perceived as insi...

www.youtube.com

 

[schuimpjes]

This why I said that the easiest thing you can do to help destroy their state as an individual, is make sure that democracy lose (starting with you and your family).

To save the world is to become totalitarian parents, what a good parenting advice.

 

[Gary]

To save the world is to become totalitarian parents, what a good parenting advice.

Democracy has nothing to do with being totalitarian or not, I spent 3 months+ debating @contricusc in the Ukraine war thread about this.

Ukraine-Russia War

Where are those who say that when the Ukrainian counterattack begins, this war will end in March or April at the latest? What, leopard 2 or challenger 2 will win the ukr-rus war. :) Hahaha.

defencehub.live

There is no actual advantage between that of representative system from that of a non-representative system. What they do have is create an illusion of advantage.

Democracy in the end created the very kind of hereditary dynasty that democracy claim to abolish

Praktik Politik Dinasti yang Lumrah Terjadi di Indonesia

Keluarga dan kerabat pejabat ataupun politisi yang berpolitik sudah menjadi hal lumrah di Indonesia. Politik kekerabatan saat ini masih menjadi isu yang hangat jelang Pemilu 2024.

www.kompas.id

and in the case of America create a mirror of when they use to be ruled by foreign government, back then it's the crown, nowadays it's AIPAC and ADL

 

[schuimpjes]

Democracy has nothing to do with being totalitarian or not, I spent 3 months+ debating @contricusc in the Ukraine war thread about this.

Ukraine-Russia War

Where are those who say that when the Ukrainian counterattack begins, this war will end in March or April at the latest? What, leopard 2 or challenger 2 will win the ukr-rus war. :) Hahaha.

defencehub.live

There is no actual advantage between that of representative system from that of a non-representative system. What they do have is create an illusion of advantage.

Democracy in the end created the very kind of hereditary dynasty that democracy claim to abolish

Praktik Politik Dinasti yang Lumrah Terjadi di Indonesia

Keluarga dan kerabat pejabat ataupun politisi yang berpolitik sudah menjadi hal lumrah di Indonesia. Politik kekerabatan saat ini masih menjadi isu yang hangat jelang Pemilu 2024.

www.kompas.id

and in the case of America create a mirror of when they use to be ruled by foreign government, back then it's the crown, nowadays it's AIPAC and ADL

I hope your kids could stand your parenting, at least give them decent living lah

What kind of authoritarianism or totalitarianism you want actually? Heaven on earth? Open air prison? I bet open air prison and save the best for the belief of next life

 

[Gary]

I hope your kids could stand your parenting,

I do not have one yet, but once I have, I consider them to be lucky. I'll teach the basics which my father fail me.

at least give them decent living lah
What kind of authoritarianism or totalitarianism you want actually? Heaven on earth? Open air prison? I bet open air prison and save the best for the belief of next life

One of the illusion of the West that lead people to adopt the 'monkey see monkey do' attitude is you must be like us to succeed.

The Chinese achieved the largest abolition of poverty in history not by modelling their political model with that of Western Europeans. Had the CCP allow opposition parties, the Chinese would never achieve greatness they enjoy now.

 

[schuimpjes]

The Chinese achieved the largest abolition of poverty in history not by modelling their political model with that of Western Europeans. Had the CCP allow opposition parties, the Chinese would never achieve greatness they enjoy now.

The one that made it, proponents of market economy in China were also the same people that wanted “gradual democratization” of China around Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang. Deng threw them away after that.

Even Tiananmen protest late 80s had something to do with support to Hu Yaobang ideas.

 

[Gary]

The one that made it, proponents of market economics in China were also the same people that wanted “gradual democratization” of China around Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang. Deng threw them away when after that.

Even Tiananmen protest late 80s had something to do with support to Hu Yaobang ideas.

There's a difference between I want... And I did.

Independent of what Hu and Zhao thinks. China achieved modernization not by copycatting 100% Western governments style. Had they did, nowadays they would waste their time in domestic political debate rather than build roads and infrastructure.

The failure of Tianmen and the Hong Kong protests is a blessing and most Chinese understand this.

 

[schuimpjes]

The failure of Tianmen and the Hong Kong protests is a blessing and most Chinese understand this.

Aihh pingin muntah

 

[Gary]

Aihh pingin muntah

don't. Those Hongkongers are only now realizing the uselesness of their effort

Young Hong Kongers Who Defied Xi Are Now Partying in China​

A record number of residents are flocking to Shenzhen for cheap food and a good time, accelerating an integration once rejected by the city’s freedom-loving youth.

Young Hong Kongers Who Defied Xi Are Now Partying in China

A record number of residents are flocking to Shenzhen for cheap food and a good time, accelerating an integration once rejected by the city’s freedom-loving youth.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[schuimpjes]

don't. Those Hongkongers are only now realizing the uselesness of their effort

Young Hong Kongers Who Defied Xi Are Now Partying in China​

A record number of residents are flocking to Shenzhen for cheap food and a good time, accelerating an integration once rejected by the city’s freedom-loving youth.

Young Hong Kongers Who Defied Xi Are Now Partying in China

A record number of residents are flocking to Shenzhen for cheap food and a good time, accelerating an integration once rejected by the city’s freedom-loving youth.

www.bloomberg.com

It just like people everywhere enjoying Chinese stuff. What you expect when movements can’t do anything nowadays

 

[schuimpjes]

There's a difference between I want...

Be specific lah, Islamic Inquisition? Sharia Law, not the Mutazilites Mihna btw

Edit:
Not related. People that yearning Bayt al Hikmah time maybe imprisoned if lived during that time for following textual Ahmad bin Hanbal.

 

[schuimpjes]

Well known old Filipino song

 

[Gary]

It just like people everywhere enjoying Chinese stuff. What you expect when movements can’t do anything nowadays

One of the thing that cements my belief that liberal democracies won't survive anything and merely hang by the thin thread that is U.S power is the fact that most of them are bunch of cengeng.

At this point in history, the Taliban would have regrouped in the mountains of Pakistan, Abu Omar of ISI would have regrouped in the desert if Anbar, Mao Zedong forced his battered army in a series of long March, Gaddafi would have had his coup takeover plan in hand etc etc

And people think that these kids...

has what it takes to run a country the size of China and not chicken out when options runs dry.

AIPAC Chinese cousin would love the kind of political landscape run by these morons.

 

[Lordimperator]

Aihh pingin muntah

"Tian an men is a blessing"
Sounds like 50 cents army