Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Gary]

You are taking Sinkies so highly, and underestimate your own severely. That's not healthy at all.

I don't praise anyone except I'm sure of them...this is not because I love Sing so much, more like an acknowledgement.

Don't get me wrong, there's certainly very good soldiers from both sides and mediocre soldiers from both sides, but if I have to bet between two armies, I couldn't be blamed if I place my bet on the one which has not only the lead in technology, do more live fire exercise, but also have some interesting alumni from premiere military exercise like Red Flag.

Sinkies with all of their modern stuff is not much beyond our capabilities just like Indonesia and China or USA comparison.

Please note that I've put mentioning Sing equipment advantage to the minimal, rarely I discuss how they have AWACS, AESA equipped fighter etc, look closely my primary concern is to their men and personell.
Where is our Red Flag alumni ? Why is the Singaporeans the one entrusted to lead RIMPAC task force and not us ? How many times we do complex live fire exercise like anti missile defense ? That's my central complain if you follow my praise about them.

Just like China v USA, its the US advantage in their NCOs and personell that matters.

They by any means can't and never have sufficient resources to waging full blown war against Indonesia even six day war scenario is beyond their scope and ability. Do they have the guts to take the risk of angering Indonesia and taking the first shot just like what you have assumed?

That's the very reason they keep in the line to put cordial relationship with Indonesia.

War doesn't always have to be initiated, sometimes war erupts by accidents...and we don't have the industry to sustain prolonged war anyway

 

[NEKO]

do more live fire exercise

But SG is struggling with this they need to go overseas just for it, be it the navy, army and air force.

 

[Parry Brima]

Nein, our country is very much more resilient compared to whatever you have assumed, the Dutch literally blockade Indonesia to the death during Independence war, trying to build as many as puppet state as they can, but here we are, prevailled against all odds as unitary state.

Nope, now it's not post-Dutch era anymore. In fact, after 7 presidents, we are now even more divided than ever.

Back then you could control ideas, information, ideology, etc. Now we live in borderless world, internet, social media, etc. Political divide is now at its worst compare to the past (never mind the natural diversity that we have since our independence).

I'd go as far as to say that now we reach the situation where it's actually the military who "unite" us all. So if I go along with the forum scenario which is "if SG decimate our military", then I believe that's the outcome that we'd have to accept.

You should probably read history again bro, this country been feed by separatism movement since begining of the time. If external threat would be erased us it will be long time ago Indonesia will not existed.

Well, I'd suggest the same

Actually it's the fact that we had separatism, that proves as a nation we actually have to be careful in dealing with stuff. Especially now.

Also it was the military who fought those separatism. So in the scenario that our military had been decimated by another country, I'm afraid we'd have no enough bond between us to stay together.

Just simple scenario. Let's say the oligarchies somehow successfully extend their power (whether it's the 3rd term or their own new president). Then the forum scenario of "SG decimating our military" happened. It's quite easy to imagine which province/s would start to break out from us.

I'm not wishing it happens of course I hope our 42 Rafale somehow manage to destroy their F-35s, F-15s, etc

 

[Madokafc]

Nope, now it's not post-Dutch era anymore. In fact, after 7 presidents, we are now even more divided than ever.

Back then you could control ideas, information, ideology, etc. Now we live in borderless world, internet, social media, etc. Political divide is now at its worst compare to the past (never mind the natural diversity that we have since our independence).

I'd go as far as to say that now we reach the situation where it's actually the military who "unite" us all. So if I go along with the forum scenario which is "if SG decimate our military", then I believe that's the outcome that we'd have to accept.




Well, I'd suggest the same

Actually it's the fact that we had separatism, that proves as a nation we actually have to be careful in dealing with stuff. Especially now.

Also it was the military who fought those separatism. So in the scenario that our military had been decimated by another country, I'm afraid we'd have no enough bond between us to stay together.

Just simple scenario. Let's say the oligarchies somehow successfully extend their power (whether it's the 3rd term or their own new president). Then the forum scenario of "SG decimating our military" happened. It's quite easy to imagine which province/s would start to break out from us.

I'm not wishing it happens of course I hope our 42 Rafale somehow manage to destroy their F-35s, F-15s, etc

That's just your feeling

Nein, in the past when the communication is severely limited and the grass roots rebellion propaganda accross the country still prevalent along with their Armed movement just like what happened in Maluku, Aceh, North Sulawesi, South Sulawesi even close to Capital city Jakarta in West Java, almost at the same time, Indonesia still managed to get a hold of the territory. This is happened when the country government offices infrastructure and human resource along with the control over population still severely limited , the language barrier between islands and provinces still great, not to mention intense foreign intervension at the time. But Indonesia still being unitary state till this day.

Today Indonesia has a much more robust position and thicker base to withstand a more turbulent and violence challenges.


---+++----


Singapore would not be our enemy, ever. They are Indonesia natural partner in the region, and the engagement between both is much closer than what you think.

Just like how Netherlands Indies crown and British Forces in Singapore realized their need between each other, there is also story' how John Lie get much armament and foods from Singaporean trader during Indonesian struggle against the Dutch, the story' then followed by
Soeharto and Lee Kwan Yue which know what is better for both countries, today Joko Widodo and Lee Hsien Liong still continue the tradition further. And i don't see any prospective candidate of Indonesia future presiden has much negative sentimen with the Singapore as partner.

If ever Indonesian Rafale and KF 21 would flying side by side by Singaporean F-15 SG and F35 against a much more potent threat from the North.

 

[schuimpjes]

Singapore would not be our enemy, ever. They are Indonesia natural partner in the region, and the engagement between both is much closer than what you think.

Just like how Netherlands Indies crown and British Forces in Singapore realized their need between each other, there is also story' how John Lie get much armament and foods from Singaporean trader during Indonesian struggle against the Dutch, the story' then followed by
Soeharto and Lee Kwan Yue which know what is better for both countries, today Joko Widodo and Lee Hsien Liong still continue the tradition further. And i don't see any prospective candidate of Indonesia future presiden has much negative sentimen with the Singapore as partner.

If ever Indonesian Rafale and KF 21 would flying side by side by Singaporean F-15 SG and F35 against a much more potent threat from the North.

What we need more now is more friends, if can, based on the values of democracy, make all countries of ASEAN to be democratic, if you more towards that, not absolute monarchy like one man rule aka authoritarianism. The real threat now to the world order we have now in Asia-Pacific more specifically, is China, the PRC.

They have tendency of not gonna be democratic if they have more influence to the world, more in favor of the strong. Don’t like this, don’t like that, crushed it to death, just left those in power to rule. Bottom up is my way now rather than top-down that you have no different with table or chair, just right there. Cogito ergo sum, I exist because I think, each people are free, not subordinates of anyone or even a slaves that just obey, democracy gives us that.

 

[schuimpjes]

If want more, words ‘sapere aude’ have more to offer, ‘dare to use your mind’. We are human not a remote controlled robots. We are ourselves, this one can’t exist without the existence of free speech like in authoritarian PRC for example. So totalitarian that we cannot be ourselves and have to comply with who are they up there that does everything ‘sepihak mereka aja’, unilaterally.

 

[NEKO]

If want more, words ‘sapere aude’ have more to offer, ‘dare to use your mind’. We are human not a remote controlled robots. We are ourselves, this one can’t exist without the existence of free speech like in authoritarian PRC for example. So totalitarian that we cannot be ourselves and have to comply with who are they up there that does everything ‘sepihak mereka aja’, unilaterally.

>How to become an NPC

 

[NEKO]

Prabs jalannya gak biasa, kaki kirinya sakit? Dulu pas awal menjabat menhan ane liat juga gitu trus sampe sekarang.

 

[Parry Brima]

That's just your feeling

Nein, in the past when the communication is severely limited and the grass roots rebellion propaganda accross the country still prevalent along with their Armed movement just like what happened in Maluku, Aceh, North Sulawesi, South Sulawesi even close to Capital city Jakarta in West Java, almost at the same time, Indonesia still managed to get a hold of the territory. This is happened when the country government offices infrastructure and human resource along with the control over population still severely limited , the language barrier between islands and provinces still great, not to mention intense foreign intervension at the time. But Indonesia still being unitary state till this day.

Today Indonesia has a much more robust position and thicker base to withstand a more turbulent and violence challenges.

---+++----

Totally agree to totally disagree.

Singapore would not be our enemy, ever. They are Indonesia natural partner in the region, and the engagement between both is much closer than what you think.

Just like how Netherlands Indies crown and British Forces in Singapore realized their need between each other, there is also story' how John Lie get much armament and foods from Singaporean trader during Indonesian struggle against the Dutch, the story' then followed by
Soeharto and Lee Kwan Yue which know what is better for both countries, today Joko Widodo and Lee Hsien Liong still continue the tradition further. And i don't see any prospective candidate of Indonesia future presiden has much negative sentimen with the Singapore as partner.

If ever Indonesian Rafale and KF 21 would flying side by side by Singaporean F-15 SG and F35 against a much more potent threat from the North.

We're talking about the war scenario, not the possibilities of the war itself to be really happening. You're way off.

 

[Parry Brima]

You guys have the collection of this kind of clip? Pls do share. Always beautiful sight.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658185478649044995

Btw, why this kind of clip always makes me think about OPM

 

[JATOSINT]

Nih info tambahan buat yang ngebayangin perang ID-SGN

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658294836536184832

 

[this is crunch]

Nih info tambahan buat yang ngebayangin perang ID-SGN

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658294836536184832

ah yes... Indonesia's soft power ace card, chickens!

 

[wahyu845]

Batalin aja deh, wkwk, beli lsg aja ga usa ikut ikutan.

yes,batalin aja uang $2 bill dollar buat dp F 16 V atau F 15 EX dariapada lisensi jahit & seminar

 

[R4duga]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658005085610229760

 

[NEKO]

Nih info tambahan buat yang ngebayangin perang ID-SGN

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658294836536184832

ah yes... Indonesia's soft power ace card, chickens!

Chicken diplomacy ini, kalau mereka main2 tinggal kita kasih sangsi embargo ayam.

 

[Qimpetmleteque]

Chicken diplomacy ini, kalau mereka main2 tinggal kita kasih sangsi embargo ayam.

Kalo sama-sama pakai logika kayak gini, Singapura juga membalas embargo dengan tidak mengirim BBM ke Indonesia. Sudah sejak puluhan tahun lalu sampai hari ini, sekitar 50an% impor BBM Indonesia berasal dari Singapura. Bisa jadi kegagalan Indonesia mengirim ayam ke Singapura, gegara distribusinya terganggu karena BBM gak cukup atau bertambah mahal. Hehehe

Jika ingat kasus Petral yang sempat ramai menjadi komoditas politik menjelang Pilpres 2014, relatif tidak bisa mengubah komposisi impor BBM Indonesia dari Singapura. Namun, nilai impornya memang berkurang menjadi sekitar separuhnya. Kemampuan dan kapasitas Indonesia membangun pengolahan BBM di dalam negeri sangat butuh akselerasi, agar semakin mandiri dan nilai tambah industrinya tetap di dalam negeri.

 

[NEKO]

Kemampuan dan kapasitas Indonesia membangun pengolahan BBM di dalam negeri sangat butuh akselerasi,

Storagenya juga masih belepotan, kebakaran terus.

 

[schuimpjes]

Kemampuan dan kapasitas Indonesia membangun pengolahan BBM di dalam negeri sangat butuh akselerasi, agar semakin mandiri dan nilai tambah industrinya tetap di dalam negeri.

RU Sama Rosneft di Tuban belum jadi setauku, apa mungkin malah mangkrak karena tau lah. Sumur Masela masih gak jelas juga.

SDM Tuban daerah Jenu yang dikasih pendidikan D3 untuk jadi operator, yang udah selesai pendidikan masih dibuang ke RU-RU luar Tuban, entah Dumai, Rumpat (RU 4), Balikpapan dll

 

[schuimpjes]

Nih info tambahan buat yang ngebayangin perang ID-SGN

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658294836536184832

Tapi jangan nganggep aman dulu kita suplai ayam kesana. Suplai nanas PRC sebelumnya banyak dari Taiwan (entah berapa persen), tapi karena sekarang hubungannya lagi gak baik 2 itu, PRC nya yang ngelarang impor nanas dari Taiwan. Terus itu nanas, suplai dari Taiwan stop, gampang nyari penggantinya, sama kayak ayam. Yang rugi Taiwannya, mereka suplai banyak ngelebihin demand dalam negeri, akhirnya jatuh harga nanas, dibuang buang malah mungkin karena gak ada yang mau surplus suplainya itu. Tapi ada kampanye sekarang di Taiwan biar konsumsi nanas dalam negeri meningkat, harapannya demand dalam negerinya meningkat.

Edit:

gampang nyari penggantinya

Maksudnya penggantinya Taiwan untuk nyuplai nanas, ya. Mungkin ganti Thailand apa Vietnam, atau mungkin malah Indonesia ngeliat sekarang kayaknya semakin banyak dari Sunpride contohnya yang kualitas ekspor gitu. Atau dari gabungan banyak negara.

 

[kantokuukai]

Tapi jangan nganggep aman dulu kita suplai ayam kesana. Suplai nanas PRC sebelumnya banyak dari Taiwan (entah berapa persen), tapi karena sekarang hubungannya lagi gak baik 2 itu, PRC nya yang ngelarang impor nanas dari Taiwan. Terus itu nanas, suplai dari Taiwan stop, gampang nyari penggantinya, sama kayak ayam. Yang rugi Taiwannya, mereka suplai banyak ngelebihin demand dalam negeri, akhirnya jatuh harga nanas, dibuang buang malah mungkin karena gak ada yang mau surplus suplainya itu. Tapi ada kampanye sekarang di Taiwan biar konsumsi nanas dalam negeri meningkat, harapannya demand dalam negerinya meningkat.

Alternatifnya dialihkan ke Jepang dan/atau Korea tapi mungkin juga sudah Jenuh. Mau kirim ke Amerika/Eropa apa ga kejauhan itu. Ya kalau dalam negeri Taiwan mungkin penduduknya tidak cepat menyerap karena cuma berapa juta.