TR Casual Discussion TOGG - Türkiye's Automotive Joint Venture Group

[Combat-Master]

 

[Huelague]

Opposing electric cars is the stupidest thing you can do in this day and age.

Hydrogen is the future.

 

[Zafer]

Hydrogen is the future.

While Lithium is now.

 

[Combat-Master]

Hydrogen is the future.

While Lithium is now.

According to Volkswagen, it's not.

 

[Huelague]

Battery or fuel-cell.

 

[Zafer]

According to Volkswagen, it's not.

View attachment 33432

If you can develop the technology to recycle Sodium Borohydride then hydrogen wins.

 

[TheInsider]

Hydrogen wins at nothing batteries are the way forward. Renewables+ 4th gen nuclear reactors(thorium molten salt)+ fusion reactor after 2050+batteries is the way. Producing hydrogen is problematic, storing it is problematic, using it is problematic. EVs have very simple logistics chain, they are easy and cheap to manufacture, operate and maintain. It is expected that the energy density of batteries will increase 2.5x in a decade.

 

[TheInsider]

TOGG Factory progress 12.10.2021

 

[Ecderha]

Hydrogen is the future.

MAIN issue is and STILL valid->
There are NO material (build as product via current technology) which CAN STORE Hydrogen for long time (even for 24 hours).

Example: when hydrogen as fuel is created from water and it is stored -> then it start Diffusion and hydrogen pass throught storage TANK and it get out and bind again with Oxygen. Some times you can see with you eyes as droping water outside of the tank.

 

[Zafer]

Hydrogen wins at nothing batteries are the way forward. Renewables+ 4th gen nuclear reactors(thorium molten salt)+ fusion reactor after 2050+batteries is the way. Producing hydrogen is problematic, storing it is problematic, using it is problematic. EVs have very simple logistics chain, they are easy and cheap to manufacture, operate and maintain. It is expected that the energy density of batteries will increase 2.5x in a decade.

Increase in battery performance over years has been under 5% a year which makes 60% per decade. 2.5x increase forecast is pure speculation.

 

[TheInsider]

Increase in battery performance over years has been under 5% a year which makes 60% per decade. 2.5x increase forecast is pure speculation.

If you only take into account the progress with Li-Ion batteries. Other types of batteries will appear after 2025. Lithium-air for example shows great promise. There are dozens of different type battery projects some will succeed others will fail but in the end, a huge jump is imminent.

Battery Technology: A New Era Emerging | Energy Industry Review

The continuum of battery technology development has been varying from stagnant periods to significant breakthroughs, in an almost...

energyindustryreview.com

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesm...ery-technology-to-beat-tesla/?sh=1474816148f3 (this is similar to Farasis silicon anode)

(another silicon anode battery)

TOGG will use NMC 811/C pouch-type batteries(280 Wh/kg) initially and it will probably move to NMC 811/C-Si (carbon-silicon anode 330Wh/kg) as it is a direct upgrade.

The direct R&D path goes as far as Lithium-air batteries with a 700Wh/kg energy density.

 

[Abdelaziz]

But the most important is to benefit from this partnership to improve the local li-on production technology and transfer the tech

 

[Cypro]

hydrogen is a bomb, who wants to ride a bomb? Hydrogen will be next fuel of Aviation and excess energy storage.. not cars. If a breakthrough happens in battery technology, hydrogen and fossil fuels will instantly become obsolete. EV is thefuture.

 

[Zafer]

Hydrogen is only stalled because Sodium boronhydride that holds large amounts of hydrogen safely can not be recycled currently. Once a technology is developed for recycling hydrogen can get back in the leading position. Other promising technologies have their own shortcomings. In battery technology you can not believe a thing before you see the technology proven by a real life application.

 

[Stuka]

SiRo will establish a factory next to TOGG's production center in Gemlik. The Ministry of Industry and Technology signed the 20 GWh battery investment plan and incentive application file of SiRo, which will operate in domestic battery production at the factory.​

Erdoğan SİRo heyetini kabul etti! Külliye'de kritik TOGG görüşmesi

Cumhurbaşkanı Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Türkiye'nin Otomobili Girişim Grubu'nun (TOGG) iş ortağı Farasis Enerji'nin CEO'su Keith Kepler'i kabul etti. SiRo, TOGG’un Gemlik’te bulunan üretim merkezinin yanında bir fabrika kuracak. Fabrikada, yerli batarya üretimi konusunda faaliyette bulunacak olan...

www.milliyet.com.tr

SiRo will establish a factory next to TOGG's production center in Gemlik. The Ministry of Industry and Technology signed the 20 GWh battery investment plan and incentive application file of SiRo, which will operate in domestic battery production at the factory.

Industry and Technology Minister Mustafa Varank received TOGG Chairman Rifat Hisarcıklıoğlu and Farasis Energy Co-Founder and CTO Keith Kepler. During the meeting, Hisarcıklıoğlu and Kepler signed the investment plan and incentive application file.

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In Comparison. The largest Battery Factories in 2020.

SiRo (Silk Road) 20GW/Year

 

[TheInsider]

20GWh/year is a huge capacity. Aspilsan is also setting up another factory. We did well to catch up with both EV and battery train. Electric motors won't be a problem. We will emerge as a real player around 2025. We did so well with this project.

 

[Ryder]

If hyrogen and Electric is the future then it has to be proven in motorsport.

End of story. Motorsport is the test ground for new tech.

 

[Ryder]

All of our tech in cars is due to motorsport. Where do paddle shifters come from??

F1 of course.

Where do carbon fiber come from?

From motorsport itself like F1 and sportscar racing.

How about safety tech and reliability?

F1 and endurance racing.

 

[Siper>MMU]

20GWh/year is a huge capacity. Aspilsan is also setting up another factory. We did well to catch up with both EV and battery train. Electric motors won't be a problem. We will emerge as a real player around 2025. We did so well with this project.

What is the capacity of Aspilsans factory ?

 

[Saithan]

What about charging stations ? Without enough of those transition to EV isn't going to be easy.