TR Casual Discussion TOGG - Türkiye's Automotive Joint Venture Group

[TR_123456]

Do we have a semiconductor producing company?

 

[Combat-Master]

Do we have a semiconductor producing company?

Not at the commercial scale. Though, by the time Turkish EV becomes available - they should have enough stocked to continue production unabated.

 

[TR_123456]

Not at the commercial scale. Though, by the time Turkish EV becomes available - they should have enough stocked to continue production unabated.

We still need one,arent there any plans?

 

[Siper>MMU]

The only semiconductor production capable company is Tübitak. They produce 4 slice laser photodetectors.

 

[Combat-Master]

We still need one,arent there any plans?

Definitely. I haven't read anything about foundries being set up for TOGG - only that TOGGs EV won't suffer from the current component shortages hitting the automotive sector.

Perhaps the government can get all the Turkish electronics giants to form a joint venture group, similar to TOGG...

 

[Zafer]

What is the capacity of Aspilsans factory ?

2 million cells per year.

 

[Pilatino]

SiRo will establish a factory next to TOGG's production center in Gemlik. The Ministry of Industry and Technology signed the 20 GWh battery investment plan and incentive application file of SiRo, which will operate in domestic battery production at the factory.​

Erdoğan SİRo heyetini kabul etti! Külliye'de kritik TOGG görüşmesi

Cumhurbaşkanı Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Türkiye'nin Otomobili Girişim Grubu'nun (TOGG) iş ortağı Farasis Enerji'nin CEO'su Keith Kepler'i kabul etti. SiRo, TOGG’un Gemlik’te bulunan üretim merkezinin yanında bir fabrika kuracak. Fabrikada, yerli batarya üretimi konusunda faaliyette bulunacak olan...

www.milliyet.com.tr

SiRo will establish a factory next to TOGG's production center in Gemlik. The Ministry of Industry and Technology signed the 20 GWh battery investment plan and incentive application file of SiRo, which will operate in domestic battery production at the factory.

Industry and Technology Minister Mustafa Varank received TOGG Chairman Rifat Hisarcıklıoğlu and Farasis Energy Co-Founder and CTO Keith Kepler. During the meeting, Hisarcıklıoğlu and Kepler signed the investment plan and incentive application file.

View attachment 34478

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In Comparison. The largest Battery Factories in 2020.

SiRo (Silk Road) 20GW/Year

View attachment 34479

Gw / year vs gw / hour?

 

[TheInsider]

Gw / year vs gw / hour?

20 GWh/year means the factory will produce 20 GWh of battery every year.
1 GWh=1,000,000 kWh
If we use a battery pack of 80kWh per car this means we can produce 250,000 cars per year.

As for the semiconductors, GaN-based semiconductors will be produced by Aselsan(for the applications like 5G internet), for silicon-based semiconductors, we will go fabless like AMD. Malaysia and TSMC will produce our designs for the products like FPGAs, industrial CPUs or modems. For the high-end semiconductors like high performance GPUs and CPUs, we will cooperate with Qualcomm. And lastly, a lot of semiconductor-based sensors will be produced by Nero Industry.

Nero Endüstri’nin Yarı İletken Sensörlerde Dışa Bağımlığı Sonlandıracak Yatırımına, Cumhurbaşkanlığı Desteği | Nero Industry

www.neroindustry.com

Nero Endüstri’nin Yarı İletken Sensörlerde Dışa Bağımlılığı Sonlandıracak Yatırımına Cumhurbaşkanlığı Desteği | savunmahaber.com

Savunma ve havacılık platformlarına yönelik alt sistem ve bileşenler üreten Nero Endüstri’nin yarı iletken sensör üretimi alanında yapmaya hazırlandığı 1,6 milyar liralık yatırım…

www.savunmahaber.com

TR also plans to set up a fab for silicon chips but that will most likely be exclusive to the defense industry.

 

[Zafer]

GWh/year means the factory will produce 20 GWh of battery every year.
1 GWh=1,000,000 kWh
If we use a battery pack of 80kWh per car this means we can produce 250,000 cars per year.

That makes 400000 cars at 50kW battery capacity.

 

[Ecderha]

Do we have a semiconductor producing company?

I would like to give you little info about Big Car producers.
Lets make this clear and it is very impotent I will talk about CAR chip/micro-controller.

So
Does BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot etc. have semiconductor producing branch or company? No they do NOT have!

What they do is following.
1. Invite companies for presentation. Invited companies are selected one or "White listed" from above car companies .
2. Car producers "present" that They need "new module " for their new car which they will start build in next 2-3 years.
3. After 2-3 months Car producers start auction for best offer from invited and interested ones. Later best offer is selected they select 1 or 2 of them from "white listed" companies.
4. Sign contract and development is started
----------------------------------

Sign contract with selected company. Is it have semiconductor producing capability? No they do NOT.
What they do to build the "new module" (let say it is Auto Gear-shifter or Window lifter ) is following:

- Make the cover (plastic, metal, leather etc).
- Inside the cover is printed circuit board (PCB)
- On PCB are at list 2 chip/micro-controller (First to drop voltage from 12voltage to 5v. This 5voltage is need it for Second chip/micro-controller because it is work on 5voltx )
- almost 90% of time they choose the Best (mean have the features and prices against others) chip/micro-controller which is JAPAN.
others like German-> infineon or France -> SK or usa motorola etc. DO NOT have succeed to reach JAPAN products (chip/micro-controller)



So result is STILL valid in present days.
make contract with Japan -> example https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/automotive-products and get chip/micro-controller for all module which you company will build for the new car

 

[TR_123456]

I would like to give you little info about Big Car producers.
Lets make this clear and it is very impotent I will talk about CAR chip/micro-controller.

So
Does BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot etc. have semiconductor producing branch or company? No they do NOT have!

What they do is following.
1. Invite companies for presentation. Invited companies are selected one or "White listed" from above car companies .
2. Car producers "present" that They need "new module " for their new car which they will start build in next 2-3 years.
3. After 2-3 months Car producers start auction for best offer from invited and interested ones. Later best offer is selected they select 1 or 2 of them from "white listed" companies.
4. Sign contract and development is started
----------------------------------

Sign contract with selected company. Is it have semiconductor producing capability? No they do NOT.
What they do to build the "new module" (let say it is Auto Gear-shifter or Window lifter ) is following:

- Make the cover (plastic, metal, leather etc).
- Inside the cover is printed circuit board (PCB)
- On PCB are at list 2 chip/micro-controller (First to drop voltage from 12voltage to 5v. This 5voltage is need it for Second chip/micro-controller because it is work on 5voltx )
- almost 90% of time they choose the Best (mean have the features and prices against others) chip/micro-controller which is JAPAN.
others like German-> infineon or France -> SK or usa motorola etc. DO NOT have succeed to reach JAPAN products (chip/micro-controller)



So result is STILL valid in present days.
make contract with Japan -> example https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/automotive-products and get chip/micro-controller for all module which you company will build for the new car

Nice presentation but did you also think of the reason why i asked this?

 

[Ecderha]

Nice presentation but did you also think of the reason why i asked this?

I hope you will tell the reason

 

[TR_123456]

I hope you will tell the reason

This is the reason,

2020–2023 global chip shortage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Global shortage in computer chips 'reaches crisis point'

Consumer price rises loom while dearth of semiconductors slow production from Samsung to Ford

www.theguardian.com

Why is there a chip shortage?

The big chip crunch is really biting now, leaving even the most unexpected industries in crisis.

www.bbc.com

Understanding the global chip shortage, a big crisis involving tiny components

Semiconductors are an essential part of nearly all electronics. But an array of factors has caused them to be in critically short supply.

www.popsci.com

The world’s short on chips; the semiconductor industry is up for the challenge

How did the global microchip shortage happen and what is the semiconductor industry doing to solve it?

www.asml.com

You cant produce cars without semiconductors/chips.
If we have indigenous production of ''chips'',the shortage will not effect us.
This goes for all the industries where we need chips.

 

[Ecderha]

This is the reason,

2020–2023 global chip shortage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Global shortage in computer chips 'reaches crisis point'

Consumer price rises loom while dearth of semiconductors slow production from Samsung to Ford

www.theguardian.com

Why is there a chip shortage?

The big chip crunch is really biting now, leaving even the most unexpected industries in crisis.

www.bbc.com

Understanding the global chip shortage, a big crisis involving tiny components

Semiconductors are an essential part of nearly all electronics. But an array of factors has caused them to be in critically short supply.

www.popsci.com

The world’s short on chips; the semiconductor industry is up for the challenge

How did the global microchip shortage happen and what is the semiconductor industry doing to solve it?

www.asml.com

You cant produce cars without semiconductors/chips.
If we have indigenous production of ''chips'',the shortage will not effect us.
This goes for all the industries where we need chips.

Thank you for explanation.
"If we have indigenous production of ''chips'',the shortage will not effect us."
On first look you are Right.

But as I said "BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot" choose to use Japan ''chips" and THERE ARE the shortages there.


Also "BMW, Mercedes, VW, Ford, Peugeot" have option to use "Local/ indigenous production of ''chips".
Example BMW -> German-> Infineon. ISSUE is that local did not provide ''chips" which meet the requirements(there are side effects which I don't want to go in details)
But German-> Infineon have "chips" I mean no shortages. But this does not fix the problem.


So IF and only IF
"we have indigenous production of ''chips'' and they meet requirements and used and there does not happened Issue as above.
Main factor of shortage is that in JAPAN one of FAB producing ''chips'' got FIRE.
Second is COVID-19

 

[Luwian]

The logo might be changed

https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademar .../018545080

 

[Stuka]

 

[Bogeyman]

 

[TheInsider]

SIRO factory will produce NMC 811 pouch-type cells. There will also be state-of-the-art R&D facilities inside the factory for battery research. I expect SIRO factory to switch to Silicone-Carbon anode as it is a direct upgrade from the graphite anode that is used in NMC(nickel, manganese, cobalt) batteries.

 

[the]

if the new logo contains the name in addition to the emblem then the previous logo looks better.

 

[neosinan]

20 GWh/year means the factory will produce 20 GWh of battery every year.
1 GWh=1,000,000 kWh
If we use a battery pack of 80kWh per car this means we can produce 250,000 cars per year.

As for the semiconductors, GaN-based semiconductors will be produced by Aselsan(for the applications like 5G internet), for silicon-based semiconductors, we will go fabless like AMD. Malaysia and TSMC will produce our designs for the products like FPGAs, industrial CPUs or modems. For the high-end semiconductors like high performance GPUs and CPUs, we will cooperate with Qualcomm. And lastly, a lot of semiconductor-based sensors will be produced by Nero Industry.

Nero Endüstri’nin Yarı İletken Sensörlerde Dışa Bağımlığı Sonlandıracak Yatırımına, Cumhurbaşkanlığı Desteği | Nero Industry

www.neroindustry.com

Nero Endüstri’nin Yarı İletken Sensörlerde Dışa Bağımlılığı Sonlandıracak Yatırımına Cumhurbaşkanlığı Desteği | savunmahaber.com

Savunma ve havacılık platformlarına yönelik alt sistem ve bileşenler üreten Nero Endüstri’nin yarı iletken sensör üretimi alanında yapmaya hazırlandığı 1,6 milyar liralık yatırım…

www.savunmahaber.com

TR also plans to set up a fab for silicon chips but that will most likely be exclusive to the defense industry.

You really should add Kalyon PV to this list. They produce not only wafers for their PV but they also produce Ingots as well. That's semiconductor materials by all intended purposes.

Imho, We also should try to find investors for assembly of IC like Malaysia and Even Tunisia is doing. It is true that High value is in wafer and ingot production but there is also good job creation in final assembly. This would be really good for our automotive and electronics sectors as well.