Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

Ravenman

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Some of Putins speech transcripted in English:

I would like to emphasise again that Ukraine is not just a neighbouring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture and spiritual space. These are our comrades, those dearest to us – not only colleagues, friends and people who once served together, but also relatives, people bound by blood, by family ties.

Since time immemorial, the people living in the south-west of what has historically been Russian land have called themselves Russians and Orthodox Christians. This was the case before the 17th century, when a portion of this territory rejoined the Russian state, and after.

So, I will start with the fact that modern Ukraine was entirely created by Russia or, to be more precise, by Bolshevik, Communist Russia. This process started practically right after the 1917 revolution, and Lenin and his associates did it in a way that was extremely harsh on Russia – by separating, severing what is historically Russian land. Nobody asked the millions of people living there what they thought.

Then, both before and after the Great Patriotic War, Stalin incorporated in the USSR and transferred to Ukraine some lands that previously belonged to Poland, Romania and Hungary. In the process, he gave Poland part of what was traditionally German land as compensation, and in 1954, Khrushchev took Crimea away from Russia for some reason and also gave it to Ukraine. In effect, this is how the territory of modern Ukraine was formed.

I will remind you that after the 1917 October Revolution and the subsequent Civil War, the Bolsheviks set about creating a new statehood. They had rather serious disagreements among themselves on this point. In 1922, Stalin occupied the positions of both the General Secretary of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) and the People’s Commissar for Ethnic Affairs. He suggested building the country on the principles of autonomisation that is, giving the republics – the future administrative and territorial entities – broad powers upon joining a unified state.

Lenin criticised this plan and suggested making concessions to the nationalists, whom he called “independents” at that time. Lenin’s ideas of what amounted in essence to a confederative state arrangement and a slogan about the right of nations to self-determination, up to secession, were laid in the foundation of Soviet statehood.
Initially they were confirmed in the Declaration on the Formation of the USSR in 1922, and later on, after Lenin’s death, were enshrined in the 1924 Soviet Constitution.

This immediately raises many questions. The first is really the main one: why was it necessary to appease the nationalists, to satisfy the ceaselessly growing nationalist ambitions on the outskirts of the former empire? What was the point of transferring to the newly, often arbitrarily formed administrative units – the union republics – vast territories that had nothing to do with them? Let me repeat that these territories were transferred along with the population of what was historically Russia.

Moreover, these administrative units were de facto given the status and form of national state entities. That raises another question: why was it necessary to make such generous gifts, beyond the wildest dreams of the most zealous nationalists and, on top of all that, give the republics the right to secede from the unified state without any conditions?

When it comes to the historical destiny of Russia and its peoples, Lenin’s principles of state development were not just a mistake; they were worse than a mistake, as the saying goes. This became patently clear after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991.


I am not trying to put the blame on anyone. The situation in the country at that time, both before and after the Civil War, was extremely complicated; it was critical. The only thing I would like to say today is that this is exactly how it was. It is a historical fact. Actually, as I have already said, Soviet Ukraine is the result of the Bolsheviks’ policy and can be rightfully called “Vladimir Lenin’s Ukraine.” He was its creator and architect. This is fully and comprehensively corroborated by archival documents, including Lenin’s harsh instructions regarding Donbass, which was actually shoved into Ukraine. And today the “grateful progeny” has overturned monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. They call it decommunization.

You want decommunization? Very well, this suits us just fine. But why stop halfway? We are ready to show what real decommunizations would mean for Ukraine.

It is logical that the Red Terror and a rapid slide into Stalin’s dictatorship, the domination of the communist ideology and the Communist Party’s monopoly on power, nationalisation and the planned economy – all this transformed the formally declared but ineffective principles of government into a mere declaration. In reality, the union republics did not have any sovereign rights, none at all. The practical result was the creation of a tightly centralised and absolutely unitary state.

It seems that the Communist Party leaders were convinced that they had created a solid system of government and that their policies had settled the ethnic issue for good. But falsification, misconception, and tampering with public opinion have a high cost. The virus of nationalist ambitions is still with us, and the mine laid at the initial stage to destroy state immunity to the disease of nationalism was ticking. As I have already said, the mine was the right of secession from the Soviet Union.

And then, the September 1989 plenary session of the CPSU Central Committee approved a truly fatal document, the so-called ethnic policy of the party in modern conditions, the CPSU platform. It included the following provisions, I quote:
“The republics of the USSR shall possess all the rights appropriate to their status as sovereign socialist states.”

The next point: “The supreme representative bodies of power of the USSR republics can challenge and suspend the operation of the USSR Government’s resolutions and directives in their territory.”

And finally: “Each republic of the USSR shall have citizenship of its own, which shall apply to all of its residents.”

Wasn’t it clear what these formulas and decisions would lead to?

Whole text:

 

Ravenman

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I foresee challenging problems for the next countrys:

- Kazachstan
- Georgia
- Uzbekistan
- Kirgizia
- Turkmenistan
- Finland
- Azerbaijcan
- Moldavia
- Romania
- Estonia
- Lithuania
- Letland
- Poland
- Bulgaria
- Turkey
- Tajikistan
 
L

LegionnairE

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Yeah that ship sailed for us, but in Russia that ship is very actual en it lives.

If someone told you in 2010 that Russia would take back Crimea and East Ukraine you would laughed also.
No. Don't put words in my mouth.
 
L

LegionnairE

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Dont make us laugh please this is a multi direction situation , it needs open minded people to talk about these stuff .
world is not that fancy and new that you think , it is the same old world but with modern cloths haha .
We are getting closer to the turning point , and only the people who knows how to play this game will go through it .
Sadly i think europe and the middile east u cluding turkey will get out of the game , sadly .
But who knows , no one can predict what will happen .
Nonsense. Nothing will happen.
 

Bogeyman 

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"Ukraine has no right to sovereignty," Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said.

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Now, the Russians are announcing that they want to invade all of Ukraine.
 

Bogeyman 

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The Russians now claim that the separatists have rights over the entire Donetsk and Luhansk administrative districts. This may mean that the Russians will shoot the Ukrainian army in these regions if they do not withdraw.

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Military presence of the Ukrainian army in the Donetsk and Luhansk administrative regions. The Yellow and Blue zones belong to the Ukrainian army.
 

Ryder

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FMJgne4X0Acv07h.jpeg


Biden and Obama are the worst presidents.

Fck them all.

They emboldened Russia, Iran and China.

Dont forget how these pieces of shit tried to do a coup in 2016 in Turkiye while at the same time they were building a terrorist state on our backyard while working with the Russians at the same time in Syria.
 

Ryder

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Seriously usa has not had a proper president for decades. I would say their last good one was Reagan eventhough im not a huge fan of him after him it just went downhill.
 

I_Love_F16

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I think that some people here are delusional. There’s no way that Russia will try to invade a big country like Turkiye. Seriously the only country with this capability would be the US, but even then they will have to give everything they have, which will suffocate them for decades.
 

Ryder

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I think that some people here are delusional. There’s no way that Russia will try to invade a big country like Turkiye. Seriously the only country with this capability would be the US, but even then they will have to give everything they have, which will suffocate them for decades.

Russia has historical claims in Turkey they want our seas also our lands.

They have not renounced anything. As Russia expands dont be surprised if they demand Kars and the city of Van after that they will extend their bs claims to Istanbul even Antalya.
 

Ravenman

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Trump was the best American president in decades. Russia and China couldnt dare to do something stupid.

Trump had also a strong anti-Russian and anti-Chinese cabinet and boardmembers like Jim Mattis, Nicky Haley, Mike Pompeo, Rex Tillerson, Gina Haspel and last but not least John Bolton. They never hesitated to take practical actions (like the bombing of Russian troops in Syria for example or the killing of Sulaimani, the harsh sanctions against China etc).

I rember on Russian and Chinese forums and RT.com the complaints of crying Sino-Russian trolls about Trump and how dangerous he was for Moscow and Peking.

Trump had to much domestic opposition and affairs to handle (taxpaying-affair, Russiagate, sexual scandals) otherwise he would have more time for his America First policy.
 

RogerRanger

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not the same situation.


Makes sense, they are very anti-EU and NATO
Interesting how they are using Scotland as the example. Its a fair point, but that hasn't settled the issue in Scotland at all. Referendums are useless in my view, they settle nothing.
 

RogerRanger

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Its fair to say the Ukrainian state had no legitimacy in the break away regions and they want to be independent or parts of Russia. So in that sense the Russian FM is correct.
 

xizhimen

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Trump was the best American president in decades. Russia and China couldnt dare to do something stupid.
Trump who? he indeed started a trade war with China, and who got hurt? he is the most stupid president ever in the history, revealed to China how weak US actually is and prompted China to changed her policy from appeasement to confrontation.
 

Ravenman

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Trump who? he indeed started a trade war with China, and who got hurt? he is the most stupid president ever in the history, revealed to China how weak US actually is and prompted China to changed her policy from appeasement to confrontation.

Confrontation? When did China under Winnie The Poeh ever confront the US?

Maybe under confrontation you guys understand beating protestors in Hong Kong or raping Uyghur civillians, but thats not a confrontation.

If China dares to confront the USA directly, they will blast you to the middleages and vaporize you to pieces so quick that you dont even have the time to collect the flying limbs and burned organs to sell it at the fish market in Wuhan.
 
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