Turkey's Erdogan has been humiliating Putin all year — here's how he did it

[Hexciter]

• Turkey is currently backing Azerbaijan's fight against Russia-backed Armenia over the contested Nagorno-Karabakh region.
• Over the past year Turkey has also involved itself in proxy conflicts against Russia in Syria and Libya.
• A NATO military analyst told Insider that Turkey's boldness in joining proxy fights actually comes from President Erdogan simply acting like Russian President Putin.
• The source added that Erdogan was likely emboldened by how little pushback Putin has received from the West for previously military actions.
• The analyst described Erdogan as "a guy who cares as little as Putin does what the world thinks and, at least for now, has set back most of Putin's plans for 2020.”
  
  
  

  Turkey humiliated Russia all year by using Putin's own playbook - Business Insider

  Turkey has been backing forces in Syria, Libya, and Nagorno-Karabakh that have pushed back and beat Russia's advances.

  www.businessinsider.com

 

[Saithan]

I think part of RTE moves are also related and grounded in the fairness, humanitarian and UN resolution approach.

Which means in Libya supporting GNA was due to UN recognition of the government and that what was going on wasn't a fair humanitarian way of solving things. Also national interest.

Syria, humanitarian crises that is a burden to Turkey, of course RTE signed refugee deal with EU causing a massive burden on Turkey, but alleviating pressure on EU. This was a mistake imo.

Azerbaycan is due to the UN resolution and how the Minsk group is comprised of three christians who actually support Armenia in a grander scheme. Now that Turkey has the necessary military hardware and enough experience we're able to decisively support Azerbaycan's campaign in taking it back.

There are powers who insist on seeing these as imperialist endeavor, while completely ignoring fair approaches.

I can say this without a doubt, if Turkey ever joins the UN as a permanent power (I doubt only Turkey will join) the UN would effectively become obsolete because UN 5+1 permanent members are not interested in fairness, they're interested in gathering money from those who are not permanent members in return for their influence.

 

[Zafer]

Syria, humanitarian crises that is a burden to Turkey, of course RTE signed refugee deal with EU causing a massive burden on Turkey, but alleviating pressure on EU. This was a mistake imo.

It isn't like you can send refugees to Europe as you wish even if you want to because Europe has already lost its humanitarian looking face for a while now pushing people to death in the sea. So not making a refugee deal is not giving you anything while making it can get you funds and a visa exemption. Mistake is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Saithan]

It isn't like you can send refugees to Europe as you wish even if you want to because Europe has already lost its humanitarian looking face for a while now pushing people to death in the sea. So not making a refugee deal is not giving you anything while making it can get you funds and a visa exemption. Mistake is in the eye of the beholder.

Did we get the visa exemption ? No

Did we give EU time to build border guard, patrol, and a lot more ? Yes

Most likely RTE thought the same as you, "we're going to be stuck with these immigrants, might as well get paid".

Do you know what thay means ? We commit to a deal with no benefits to us, except money.

It means the moment something goes bad in Syria like in Idlib, like the death of Turkish Soldiers, and we stop holding on to the refugees even try to push them to EU, we're the bad guys. We don't uphold our end of the bargain. Even if it expired, the EU doesn't give a fuck.

We already talked about this before, yet you seem incapable of understanding this.

It comes from not understanding the western mindset.

Look at Azerbaycan and the ongoing fighting, do you know that every portrayal of that is in favor of Armenia ?

We should not have made any commitment or any deals, and let refugees continue flowing into EU. Because we're not categorized as a safe country for refugees, so they cannot send them back.

That is until RTE signed the refugee deal.

 

[Zafer]

Did we get the visa exemption ? No

Did we give EU time to build border guard, patrol, and a lot more ? Yes

Most likely RTE thought the same as you, "we're going to be stuck with these immigrants, might as well get paid".

Do you know what thay means ? We commit to a deal with no benefits to us, except money.

It means the moment something goes bad in Syria like in Idlib, like the death of Turkish Soldiers, and we stop holding on to the refugees even try to push them to EU, we're the bad guys. We don't uphold our end of the bargain. Even if it expired, the EU doesn't give a fuck.

We already talked about this before, yet you seem incapable of understanding this.

It comes from not understanding the western mindset.

Look at Azerbaycan and the ongoing fighting, do you know that every portrayal of that is in favor of Armenia ?

We should not have made any commitment or any deals, and let refugees continue flowing into EU. Because we're not categorized as a safe country for refugees, so they cannot send them back.

That is until RTE signed the refugee deal.

You totally disregard the fact that Europe not accepting refugees gives us the right to interfere in Syria, with its many consequences.
Also the refugee deal is not abandoned and still can move forward giving leverage in our talks for other matters.
We are not anymore a reactionary actor but an actionary one.

You regard the west too much and their opinions.

 

[Saithan]

You totally disregard the fact that Europe not accepting refugees gives us the right to interfere in Syria, with its many consequences.
Also the refugee deal is not abandoned and still can move forward giving leverage in our talks for other matters.
We are not anymore a reactionary actor but an actionary one.

You regard the west too much and their opinions.

1.Turkey has the right to interfere in Syria regardless of EU opinion as we already HAD a sizeable number of refugees before the refugee deal.

2.Well it's not a bad thing to dream, so keep dreaming. I'd love to see your facial expression when you realize it's not going to happen in 10, 20, 30 years.

Why ? you may want to ask. Because EU has already experienced what happens thanks to the East EU members joining. You think they'll repeat that with a country of 83 mio. and 15 mio. unemployed ? And those are just the bare minimum.

3. I disagree with that POV, we were actionary, but have become reactionary with regard to many things. If you think our armed support is an actionary one then you are half wrong because military gain can be lost on the table of negotiations. But perhaps this can change again, but only if we can reestablish diplomatic ties.

If our economy was unshakable we'd be much better off, but right now we're going to be battered, zero budget discipline. Even the arabs are hiting our economy.

4. I have a better understanding of western nations and their political spectrum than you will ever have. It baffles me greatly, if you can only see my comments as a regard and bowing to western politics.

I can only compare it with the warning young MKA gave the Ottoman commanders with regard to not allowing French mineships clearing the sea mines in the bay of Hatay so the Brits could sail in... Who then took the place and gave it to the french.

 

[Zafer]

I have a better understanding of western nations and their political spectrum than you will ever have.

You have a high esteem of yourself just like the so called "monshers" of the old Turkey which are nowhere to be found now. Trying to understand them, learning their language and all while now we don't even need to understand them and they have to understand us, we don't even care to speak their language anymore when we speak to them. Try and understand them wasting your time.

 

[Saithan]

You have a high esteem of yourself just like the so called "monshers" of the old Turkey which are nowhere to be found now. Trying to understand them, learning their language and all while now we don't even need to understand them and they have to understand us, we don't even care to speak their language anymore when we speak to them. Try and understand them wasting your time.

You can't counter what I wrote so you deign to compare me with those who glorify west ?

Yet you dream about visa free travel to EU...

If you think so much of Turkey, you should stay and spend all your money in Turkey. Not travel abroad and contribute to other nations wealth...

Zavallisin...

 

[Zafer]

If you think so much of Turkey, you should stay and spend all your money in Turkey. Not travel abroad and contribute to other nations wealth...

Loser, I traveled for work and didn't spend a dime from my pocket, I was a seafarer.

I don't care to spend my time entertaining fools, I only talk about what really matters and leave trivia to your attention.

 

[Saithan]

Loser, I traveled for work and didn't spend a dime from my pocket, I was a seafarer.

I don't care to spend my time entertaining fools, I only talk about what really matters and leave trivia to your attention.

Yet you feel the need to protect AKP verbally, but can't back it up with sources, information, articles and such.