TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[UkroTurk]

It doesn't use the Javelin warhead either, which unlike the NLAW's has tandem charges.

Javelin has tandem warhead.

NLAW and Javelin have both top attack capability which makes NLAW similar to Javelin. (The best feature of NLAW )

NLAW's downward-angled HEAT warhead perforates the thin upper armor even if it’s covered with Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA).

Approach of two warhead is similar with proximity and direct fusing.

NLAW is not unguided

Your honest who is saying NLAW is guided?

 

[B.t.N]

NLAW is not unguided, it uses inertial guidance. It doesn't use the Javelin warhead either, which unlike the NLAW's has tandem charges.

At a closer range, NLAW approach makes sense, I guess. The autonomous PLOS system, does it engage in projectile correction on its way to the target?

 

[Era_shield]

At a closer range, NLAW approach makes sense, I guess. The autonomous PLOS system, does it engage in projectile correction on its way to the target?

No, it doesn't. If the target changes direction or speed after the NLAW is launched, it could miss. But the benefit is it's quite light and theoretically cheaper than a system which uses an imager. It was originally supposed to be cheap to produce (hence no imager) but because it's the Swedes/Brits who made it it ended up being pretty expensive anyway.

 

[B.t.N]

No, it doesn't. If the target changes direction or speed after the NLAW is launched, it could miss. But the benefit is it's quite light and theoretically cheaper than a system which uses an imager. It was originally supposed to be cheap to produce (hence no imager) but because it's the Swedes/Brits who made it it ended up being pretty expensive anyway.

That is a deal-breaker, esp. against the Javelin!

 

[TheInsider]

Trusted laser guidance is a good alternative to PLOS it is cheap and reliable. Producing a 1km range laser designator will be a piece of cake. I think our 90mm 1km ranged ATGM should be laser-guided.

 

[B.t.N]

Trusted laser guidance is a good alternative to PLOS it is cheap and reliable. Producing a 1km range laser designator will be a piece of cake. I think our 90mm 1km ranged ATGM should be laser-guided.

Shoot and stay put, as opposed to run! A sturdy launch platform (to house the illuminator), does’nt it defeat the purpose of a light-weight, portable unit?

 

[TheInsider]

Shoot and stay put, as opposed to run! A sturdy launch platform (to house the illuminator), does’nt it defeat the purpose of a light-weight, portable unit?

Why shoot and stay still? Laser illumination can be made by various assets UAVs and UGVs are the first to come to my mind. There are also many gadgets like rifle mounted and handheld laser designators.

 

[B.t.N]

Why shoot and stay still? Laser illumination can be made by various assets UAVs and UGVs are the first to come to my mind. There are also many gadgets like rifle mounted and handheld laser designators.

I thought you suggested an incorporated laser to paint the target, otherwise I second your opinion, it is better than nothing at all!

 

[TheInsider]

I thought you suggested an incorporated laser to paint the target, otherwise I second your opinion, it is better than nothing at all!

Why you are always thinking in binary? The missile launcher should have an incorporated laser designator but the system should also have the capability of external designation. This is a really simple and easy thing to do.

1x 1km rifle mounted designator per team
1x or 2x 5km handheld designator per platoon+Kargu sized UAV.
1x or 2x 20km handheld designator per company+ Scan Eagle sized UAV.

The missile launcher should also have its own laser designator. Here you go distributed target painting capability for all of your laser-based products.

 

[UkroTurk]

Are there any Turkish light weight laser designators? Edit:

ASELSAN's Engerek laser designator 5.7kg

We haven't seen Yatağan's compact designator yet.

AN/PED1 A (LLDR2)

 

[Bmx98]

We haven't seen Yatağan's compact designator yet.

Yes we have.

 

[UkroTurk]

Yes we have.

Such a great informative photo but need to be uploaded THX

 

[Yasar_TR]

When you see the size of the Bora, it looks like it can travel well over 1000 Km at least.

Bora as we know it, can not go more than 480km. It is a “Quasi Ballistic” short range (300-360km range) tactical missile. It is a 2500kg, 7.8m long, 610mm diameter missile with a solid fuel rocket engine with a 470kg explosive head. It was developed from Chinese B611 class missiles. This in turn was developed from Russian Iskender missiles.
To achieve longer ranges the missile diameter and length has to be improved.
There were rumours few years ago about the development of a Bora-2 which would have a range in excess of 500km and be able to hit moving sea targets. Dated October 2019 and posted by our @Cabatli_53 , the presence of a missile with game changer credentials was insinuated.

The Noble Quran - Quran.com

The Quran translated into many languages in a simple and easy interface

defence.pk

This missile may very well be in the inventory now. If so with a 600km range there are no ships that can be safe in Eastern Adriatic coast of Greece and Eastern Mediterranean, starting from Western Crete.
There were also statements made by a government minister prior to recent elections, who suggested that if we knew about the new missile and what it could do we would forget about politics and elections.

 

[TheInsider]

To achieve longer ranges the missile diameter and length has to be improved.

This is not the only solution there are many ways to improve range. Bora is produced with old technology. Roketsan has better rocket engine technology nowadays. A redesigned rocket engine with the same diameter and length can provide a sizeable increase. Reducing the weight of the missile by using more composites and miniaturizing the electronics can provide an additional range. Reducing the warhead size can also increase range. Separating the warhead section after engine burnout can hugely increase the range. Bora can reach 360km with a 470kg warhead while executing evasive maneuvers(according to visual evidence). On a purely ballistic trajectory, Bora can reach a slightly higher range.

Roketsan increased the maximum range of the TRG-300 by %33 (90 to 120km) after reducing the total weight of the missile by %13(660 to 585kg). I don't think diameter or length change is necessary for a sizeable range increase.

Roketsan - TRG-300 Füzesi

www.roketsan.com.tr

 

[Yasar_TR]

This is not the only solution there are many ways to improve range. Bora is produced with old technology. Roketsan has better rocket engine technology nowadays. A redesigned rocket engine with the same diameter and length can provide a sizeable increase. Reducing the weight of the missile by using more composites and miniaturizing the electronics can provide an additional range. Reducing the warhead size can also increase range. Separating the warhead section after engine burnout can hugely increase the range. Bora can reach 360km with a 470kg warhead while executing evasive maneuvers(according to visual evidence). On a purely ballistic trajectory, Bora can reach a slightly higher range.

Roketsan increased the maximum range of the TRG-300 by %33 (90 to 120km) after reducing the total weight of the missile by %13(660 to 585kg). I don't think diameter or length change is necessary for a sizeable range increase.

Roketsan - TRG-300 Füzesi

www.roketsan.com.tr

Again you are jumping in without actually reading what is written. We are not talking about achieving incremental increases of range. @I_Love_F16 is talking about Bora having 1000 km range.
We all know by lowering explosive weight, lowering missile weight by using composite materials or improving fuel quality (as per Lora) it is possible to increase missile ranges incrementally. Our Bora may go 280km to 360km as is. But the Chinese have managed around 480 km ranges with their versions. Israeli missile Lora is smaller and lighter in overall weight and has a maximum just under 500km range thanks to high grade fuels.

LORA Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com

The LORA (shorthand for "LOng Range Attack") is a tactical missile developed in Israel. The LORA is launched from a box-shaped, 4-cell launcher that can be mounted on a vehicle flatbed or a trailer.

www.military-today.com

LORA Precision Strike Tactical Missile, Israel

Long-Range Artillery Weapon System (LORA) is a precision strike tactical ballistic missile developed by Israel Aerospace Industries’ (IAI) MALAM division.

www.army-technology.com

 

[TheInsider]

Again you are jumping in without actually reading what is written. We are not talking about achieving incremental increases of range. @I_Love_F16 is talking about Bora having 1000 km range.
We all know by lowering explosive weight, lowering missile weight by using composite materials or improving fuel quality (as per Lora) it is possible to increase missile ranges incrementally. Our Bora may go 280km to 360km as is. But the Chinese have managed around 480 km ranges with their versions. Israeli missile Lora is smaller and lighter in overall weight and has a maximum just under 500km range thanks to high grade fuels.

LORA Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com

The LORA (shorthand for "LOng Range Attack") is a tactical missile developed in Israel. The LORA is launched from a box-shaped, 4-cell launcher that can be mounted on a vehicle flatbed or a trailer.

www.military-today.com

LORA Precision Strike Tactical Missile, Israel

Long-Range Artillery Weapon System (LORA) is a precision strike tactical ballistic missile developed by Israel Aerospace Industries’ (IAI) MALAM division.

www.army-technology.com

So %33 range increase on TRG-300 missile is an incremental increase? What we call incremental increase is something like %3-5-7. Bora missile can easily pass 500km range without a major redesign by just introducing a block II missile with a better rocket engine and some weight savings and that is a huge range increase, not an incremental range increase. We can even achieve double the range if we go all out. Bora is a heavy missile that carries a big warhead. There are a lot of low-hanging fruits that can be harvested from a 2500kg missile.

 

[TheInsider]

Americans were doubled the range of ATACMS missile by just reducing warhead to one third.

The original warhead of Block 1A weighs over 600kg if I'm not mistaken it is reduced to 230kg. That is close to a 400kg reduction and indeed close to one third of the original warhead weight.

 

[Yasar_TR]

So %33 range increase on TRG-300 missile is an incremental increase? What we call incremental increase is something like %3-5-7. Bora missile can easily pass 500km range without a major redesign by just introducing a block II missile with a better rocket engine and some weight savings and that is a huge range increase, not an incremental range increase. We can even achieve double the range if we go all out. Bora is a heavy missile that carries a big warhead. There are a lot of low-hanging fruits that can be harvested from a 2500kg missile.

1. We are not discussing here TRG-300
2. TRG-300 always had a range of 120km when first introduced. They decreased it to 90km by nearly doubling the explosive weight.

Roketsan - TRG-300 Guided Missile

www.roketsan.com.tr

3. I have already mentioned Block 2 Bora in my above article. By calling it Bora 2 it is quite clear that there will be major changes to the original missile. Don’t try to sell that back to me.
4. How do you know you can achieve “easily” 500 km range with current Bora without a major redesign? Are you a rocket scientist? If so please enlighten us how you would go about it!
5. Just check out the diameter and length of various Iskender missiles Russia operates. They vary in diameters and lengths to achieve longer ranges. They have weights from 3800kg to 4600kg with ranges from 280km to 500km. Same is the case for various B611 class missiles China operates. Just to achieve 400-500km ranges they enlarge the diameter and/or length of the missile.
6. Incremental doesn’t mean little amounts. But relating to or denoting an increase or addition, especially one of a series on a fixed scale. Quite often in rather smaller than larger “increments”.
7. point of discussion here is squeezing 1000km range from current Bora!

Please stop picking up what is already there and then try to resell it as if it is new and your own!

 

[Combat-Master]

GEZGIN Cruise missile under blue tarp ?

 

[TheInsider]

1. We are not discussing here TRG-300
2. TRG-300 always had a range of 120km when first introduced. They decreased it to 90km by nearly doubling the explosive weight.

Roketsan - TRG-300 Guided Missile

www.roketsan.com.tr

3. I have already mentioned Block 2 Bora in my above article. By calling it Bora 2 it is quite clear that there will be major changes to the original missile. Don’t try to sell that back to me.
4. How do you know you can achieve “easily” 500 km range with current Bora without a major redesign? Are you a rocket scientist? If so please enlighten us how you would go about it!
5. Just check out the diameter and length of various Iskender missiles Russia operates. They vary in diameters and lengths to achieve longer ranges. They have weights from 3800kg to 4600kg with ranges from 280km to 500km. Same is the case for various B611 class missiles China operates. Just to achieve 400-500km ranges they enlarge the diameter and/or length of the missile.
6. Incremental doesn’t mean little amounts. But relating to or denoting an increase or addition, especially one of a series on a fixed scale. Quite often in rather smaller than larger “increments”.
7. point of discussion here is squeezing 1000km range from current Bora!

Please stop picking up what is already there and then try to resell it as if it is new and your own!

Complete and the biggest untrue post I have ever seen from you.

2) So you are accepting the range can be extended a lot by just tinkering with payload. This is not a huge redesign.
3) I can send a man to space with a 4600kg missile. ATACMS is 1321kg and can travel to a distance of 300km. Lora weighs 1600kg and can reach 430km. Bora is as old as ….
Russian and Chinese missiles are old tech too. Bora still uses hydraulic controls for god's sake just replacing those with small torque dense electrical actuators will net huge gains. Look at what the US achieved with PrsM. PrsM weighs 1670kg has a diameter of 610mm and can reach 500km which is 900kg lighter than a Bora. I tell you what with the weight budget of Bora (2500kg) you can probably deliver a warhead around 300kg to a distance of 1000km.

Rest is not worth my time as everybody knows what you meant by incremental.