TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Yasar_TR]

Complete and the biggest untrue post I have ever seen from you.

2) So you are accepting the range can be extended a lot by just tinkering with payload. This is not a huge redesign.
3) I can send a man to space with a 4600kg missile. ATACMS is 1321kg and can travel to a distance of 300km. Lora weighs 1600kg and can reach 430km. Bora is as old as ….
Russian and Chinese missiles are old tech too. Bora still uses hydraulic controls for god's sake just replacing those with small torque dense electrical actuators will net huge gains. Look at what the US achieved with PrsM. PrsM weighs 1670kg has a diameter of 610mm and can reach 500km which is 900kg lighter than a Bora. I tell you what with the weight budget of Bora (2500kg) you can probably deliver a warhead around 300kg to a distance of 1000km.

Rest is not worth my time as everybody knows what you meant by incremental.

Again you are turning the conversation in to a one sided argument that has nothing to do with the original post on which my post was written.
You need to understand English better! By changing different parameters of a missile, one after the other you change the range incrementally. Each small change will result in a small incremental improvement in range. Cumulatively this could be significant. When it becomes significant then it is a major redesign. No one is questioning that, because that was not the case being discussed here.
No one has said that Chinese B611 and Russian Iskander missiles are new tech. Neither are our Bora1 and Yildiri missiles.
Again we were discussing the possibility of achieving 1000km range with a Bora1. If you have anything to say about that then say it. Otherwise no need to post anymore.
If you don’t believe Iskander missile weight, just check below links.

Iskander Iskander-M 9K720 9P78E 9T250E SS-26 Stone tactical ballistic missile data

Iskander Iskander-M 9K720 9P78E 9T250E SS-26 Stone tactical ballistic missile technical data fact sheet pictures video

www.armyrecognition.com

9K720 Iskander (SS-26) | Missile Threat

The 9K720 Iskander (NATO: SS-26 “Stone”) is a road-mobile short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) with a range of up to 500 km. Using a common transporter-erector-launcher (TEL) and support vehicles, the system can also fire the 9M728 (R-500, SSC-7) and 9M729 (SSC-8) cruise missiles. Iskander...

missilethreat.csis.org

9K720 Iskander

The 9K720 Iskander (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone) is a mobile theater ballistic missile system produced and deployed by the Russian Federation. In 1996, the first launch of the Iskander was depicted on Russian television. The road-mobile Iskander was the second attempt to replace the Scud...

military-history.fandom.com

You need to start reading the posts you would like to respond to with a view to be constructive, rather than being adversarial.

 

[TheInsider]

Again you are turning the conversation in to a one sided argument that has nothing to do with the original post on which my post was written.
You need to understand English better! By changing different parameters of a missile, one after the other you change the range incrementally. Each small change will result in a small incremental improvement in range. Cumulatively this could be significant. When it becomes significant then it is a major redesign. No one is questioning that, because that was not the case being discussed here.
No one has said that Chinese B611 and Russian Iskander missiles are new tech. Neither are our Bora1 and Yildiri missiles.
Again we were discussing the possibility of achieving 1000km range with a Bora1. If you have anything to say about that then say it. Otherwise no need to post anymore.
If you don’t believe Iskander missile weight, just check below links.

Iskander Iskander-M 9K720 9P78E 9T250E SS-26 Stone tactical ballistic missile data

Iskander Iskander-M 9K720 9P78E 9T250E SS-26 Stone tactical ballistic missile technical data fact sheet pictures video

www.armyrecognition.com

9K720 Iskander (SS-26) | Missile Threat

The 9K720 Iskander (NATO: SS-26 “Stone”) is a road-mobile short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) with a range of up to 500 km. Using a common transporter-erector-launcher (TEL) and support vehicles, the system can also fire the 9M728 (R-500, SSC-7) and 9M729 (SSC-8) cruise missiles. Iskander...

missilethreat.csis.org

9K720 Iskander

The 9K720 Iskander (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone) is a mobile theater ballistic missile system produced and deployed by the Russian Federation. In 1996, the first launch of the Iskander was depicted on Russian television. The road-mobile Iskander was the second attempt to replace the Scud...

military-history.fandom.com

You need to start reading the posts you would like to respond to with a view to be constructive, rather than being adversarial.

This is what I said about Bora. I will add now more to that and develop my point.

I can send a man to space with a 4600kg missile. ATACMS is 1321kg and can travel to a distance of 300km. Lora weighs 1600kg and can reach 430km. Bora is as old as ….
Russian and Chinese missiles are old tech too. Bora still uses hydraulic controls for god's sake just replacing those with small torque dense electrical actuators will net huge gains. Look at what the US achieved with PrsM. PrsM weighs 1670kg has a diameter of 610mm and can reach 500km which is 900kg lighter than a Bora. I tell you what with the weight budget of Bora (2500kg) you can probably deliver a warhead around 300kg to a distance of 1000km.

This is what you said

Bora as we know it, can not go more than 480km. It is a “Quasi Ballistic” short range (300-360km range) tactical missile. It is a 2500kg, 7.8m long, 610mm diameter missile with a solid fuel rocket engine with a 470kg explosive head. It was developed from Chinese B611 class missiles. This in turn was developed from Russian Iskender missiles.
To achieve longer ranges the missile diameter and length has to be improved.

This is what I said.

This is not the only solution there are many ways to improve range. Bora is produced with old technology. Roketsan has better rocket engine technology nowadays. A redesigned rocket engine with the same diameter and length can provide a sizeable increase.

Bora is an old missile system with most of its tech dating back to the early 2000s while some of them date back to the late 1990s it is basically a continuation of the Yıldırım project. Bora has ;
Metal body ( should be changed to composite. It won't be a problem with our current composite tech and production capability)
Hydraulic controls (can be changed with light small and torque dense electrical actuators)
Metal rocket engine (can be changed with composite rocket engine with higher chamber pressure/more thrust and weight reductions)
Old fuel formula ( We have better rocket fuels nowadays)
Old warhead formula and optimization ( We made great progress in recent years in advanced explosives rather than 470kg similar effect can be reached with a lighter warhead)
Outdated electronics and guidance system ( better flight controls mean more range)
Optionally stage separation can be added to the warhead section

Bora has a weight budget of 2500kg. All of the things above are easy to change low-hanging fruits that don't need an enlargement of missile diameter or lengthening of the missile. If we design a rocket from scratch with bigger diameter and length and obviously with more weight it won't be a tactical missile it will be something else an MRBM.

We can just produce the same Bora missile at the same length, at the same diameter, and at the same weight, to achieve incredible ranges with those changes mentioned above and can reach further than American PrsM due to Bora having more weight budget(more weight=more fuel)

There are people that can literally put small satellites in the orbit with rockets similar to Bora in weight.

JAXA | SS-520 No.5 was Certified by GUINESS WORLD RECORDS(R) as the Smallest Orbital Rocket

Get information on the SS-520 No.5 was Certified by GUINESS WORLD RECORDS(R) as the Smallest Orbital Rocket. The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) performs various activities related to aerospace as an organization, from basic research in the aerospace field to development and utilization.

global.jaxa.jp

 

[Yasar_TR]

This is what I said about Bora. I will add now more to that and develop my point.


This is what you said



This is what I said.



Bora is an old missile system with most of its tech dating back to the early 2000s while some of them date back to the late 1990s it is basically a continuation of the Yıldırım project. Bora has ;
Metal body ( should be changed to composite. It won't be a problem with our current composite tech and production capability)
Hydraulic controls (can be changed with light small and torque dense electrical actuators)
Metal rocket engine (can be changed with composite rocket engine with higher chamber pressure/more thrust and weight reductions)
Old fuel formula ( We have better rocket fuels nowadays)
Old warhead formula and optimization ( We made great progress in recent years in advanced explosives rather than 470kg similar effect can be reached with a lighter warhead)
Outdated electronics and guidance system ( better flight controls mean more range)
Optionally stage separation can be added to the warhead section

Bora has a weight budget of 2500kg. All of the things above are easy to change low-hanging fruits that don't need an enlargement of missile diameter or lengthening of the missile. If we design a rocket from scratch with bigger diameter and length and obviously with more weight it won't be a tactical missile it will be something else an MRBM.

We can just produce the same Bora missile at the same length, at the same diameter, and at the same weight, to achieve incredible ranges with those changes mentioned above and can reach further than American PrsM due to Bora having more weight budget(more weight=more fuel)

There are people that can literally put small satellites in the orbit with rockets similar to Bora in weight.

JAXA | SS-520 No.5 was Certified by GUINESS WORLD RECORDS(R) as the Smallest Orbital Rocket

Get information on the SS-520 No.5 was Certified by GUINESS WORLD RECORDS(R) as the Smallest Orbital Rocket. The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) performs various activities related to aerospace as an organization, from basic research in the aerospace field to development and utilization.

global.jaxa.jp

Again non of what you waffle about has any relevance to Bora1 missile achieving 1000km range.
But let us look at these SRBMs from a different angle;
Yildirim missile is a 2500kg 6.1m long missile with a range of 150km. In fact one can see how Bora and other missiles were developed from it. By using composite materials and newer more advanced fuel derivatives the Bora1 and Khan were produced. But there is a limit to engineering and advancement within a given size (diameter and length) and weight. Chinese have tens of derivatives of this very missile ranging from 150km to 480km. Unless you increase the diameter and/or length of the missile considerably, you can not achieve ranges in excess of 500 km with a missile like Bora1 anymore.

realtime.at - Domain gecatcht

Also, let us look at the Iskander (3800kg to 4600kg with 7.3m length) and Kinzhal (4300kg around 8m long) missiles. They are heavy and long and have a diameter of around 950mm.
Why do you think Russians are using such heavy rockets with maximum ranges of around 500 km? (Kinzhal is effectively a 4-500km range Iskander launched from air to give it the “claimed” extra range).
Russians want sustained hypersonic flight and terminal hypersonic speeds in these missiles. As these are semi ballistic missiles they are governed by terminal velocity laws.
A 2.5 ton initial weighted Bora1 missile will fly at hypersonic speeds as it is speeding down from 50km to 15km altitude. But since It has depleted all of it’s fuel and become lighter, and after 15km it is being slowed down by air resistance as governed by terminal velocity formula, it’s terminal speed will be around 3-4 Mach depending on it’s final weight and it’s drag coefficient.
Yet a much larger and heavier Iskander, carrying a lot more fuel and sustaining the missile‘s hypersonic speeds longer, could achieve hypersonic terminal speeds.

As can be seen the heavier a ballistic missile is, the more terminal speed it will have as it hits it’s target. And with more speed and more weight comes more kinetic energy and more devastating results. Plus they are more difficult to intercept.

 

[Huelague]

Bora as we know it, can not go more than 480km. It is a “Quasi Ballistic” short range (300-360km range) tactical missile. It is a 2500kg, 7.8m long, 610mm diameter missile with a solid fuel rocket engine with a 470kg explosive head. It was developed from Chinese B611 class missiles. This in turn was developed from Russian Iskender missiles.
To achieve longer ranges the missile diameter and length has to be improved.
There were rumours few years ago about the development of a Bora-2 which would have a range in excess of 500km and be able to hit moving sea targets. Dated October 2019 and posted by our @Cabatli_53 , the presence of a missile with game changer credentials was insinuated.

The Noble Quran - Quran.com

The Quran translated into many languages in a simple and easy interface

defence.pk

This missile may very well be in the inventory now. If so with a 600km range there are no ships that can be safe in Eastern Adriatic coast of Greece and Eastern Mediterranean, starting from Western Crete.
There were also statements made by a government minister prior to recent elections, who suggested that if we knew about the new missile and what it could do we would forget about politics and elections.

What does it mean?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What does it mean?

I guess he meant that the new Bora2 was so much more capable than old one that if we knew about it we would be so impressed with it’s performance that we would forget about the importance of elections etc. but talk about Bora2 instead.
At least that is what I make of it.

Milli füze Bora-1 envantere girdi | Türkiye Ekonomisi Haberleri

Milli Savunma Bakanı Nurettin Canikli, "280 km menzilli tamamen milli füzemiz Bora-1 envantere girdi. Şimdi daha ileri teknolojiye ve daha uzun menzile sahip Bora-2 için çalışıyoruz" dedi. Canikli, "Projenin büyüklüğünü, detaylarını anlatsam Kılıçdaroğlu’nu da, çatı adayı da, seçimi de...

www.yenisafak.com

 

[Huelague]

I guess he meant that the new Bora2 was so much more capable than old one that if we knew about it we would be so impressed with it’s performance that we would forget about the importance of elections etc. but talk about Bora2 instead.
At least that is what I make of it.

Milli füze Bora-1 envantere girdi | Türkiye Ekonomisi Haberleri

Milli Savunma Bakanı Nurettin Canikli, "280 km menzilli tamamen milli füzemiz Bora-1 envantere girdi. Şimdi daha ileri teknolojiye ve daha uzun menzile sahip Bora-2 için çalışıyoruz" dedi. Canikli, "Projenin büyüklüğünü, detaylarını anlatsam Kılıçdaroğlu’nu da, çatı adayı da, seçimi de...

www.yenisafak.com

And he is absolutely right. He knows us.

 

[Yasar_TR]

SOM-J ve SOM-B1 Füzelerinden Tam İsabet | SavunmaSanayiST

Milli seyir füzeleri SOM-B1 ve SOM-J, bu hafta içerisinde gerçekleştirilen testler esnasında hedefle

www.savunmasanayist.com

SOM B1 and SOM-J missiles have been successfully fired this week. Finally SOM-J will be ready to be integrated on to various platforms.
At the moment it is the only Air to Ship cruise missile we have. It’s big brother SOM-C is still not ready.
I personally look forward to hearing about the SOM-C. Being much larger and longer range it is at a different class. Then there is the ER version that can be developed.

 

[TheInsider]

The most important metric in rocket science is weight budget and how much of that is made of fuel. Your logic cant explain how 1600kg PrsM achieves 500km. If a 2500kg PrsM is made it will easily achieve 1000km. As I proved with a 2600kg missile you can achieve orbital velocities and can put a satellite in the orbit. Let that sink in first.

Bora 2500kg launch weight 610mm diameter 360km range with 470kg warhead.
PrsM 1670kg launch weight 610mm diameter 500kg range (passed the 500km in the most recent test there are plans to achieve 1000km at the same weight with a 100kg warhead )
Lora 1600kg launch weight 624mm diameter 430km range with 400kg warhead (250km with 600kg penetrator warhead)

No need to say anything the comparison is clear. Lora and PrsM have more range with substantially lower launch weight. A Lora or PrsM as heavy as Bora can reach at least 750-800km possibly 1000km.

We should revisit the Bora before increasing its diameter, length and weight.

 

[Yasar_TR]

PrsM is a work in progress. It is programmed to go as long as 1770km at hypersonic speeds.
Current missile tested managed 400km distance.

US Army’s Precision Strike Missile breaks range record

Lockheed Martin's Precision Strike Missile, the U.S. Army's next-generation deep-strike capability, reached 400 kilometers in a test at White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico.

www.defensenews.com

This is a missile that was developed from ATACMS 610mm diameter 4m long 300km range missile.
Technologies used on propulsion, mechanical side and fuel in the development of this missile are cutting edge and quite different when compared to eastern techs that Russia , China and Turkey use.
The actual missile tested was supposed to have a 430mm diameter and 390cm length with a weight of 771kg. It was to have a 91kg explosive warhead. The missile was designed to travel at speeds in excess of 6mach.

Raytheon conducts first arena test of DeepStrike warhead

Raytheon Missile Systems has conducted a successful arena test of the intended advanced warhead for its DeepStrike surface-to-surface missile (SSM).

www.janes.com

We do not have enough information about the trajectory and the propulsion technology of this missile. But when finished it will be ground breaking. That is for sure.
But we can look at the Lora missile;
Depending on it’s range it weighs between 1.6 ton and 1.8 ton and manages around 280km to 400km range respectively. It has a an explosive weight of 400 kg to 570 kg. Using better fuels and lower weight materials with a diameter of 610mm it is comparable to Bora1. But Bora’s technology is not at the same level as where Lora’s is. They have access to US’s latest missile tech. We don’t. But we are managing quite well on our own nevertheless.
Putting a missile in orbit and firing a missile to hit a ground target with an explosive are two very different processes. (SM3 missile can go 1200km high and is only 1.5tons in weight. It is 655cm in length and only 345 mm in diameter. ) Totally different kinematics involved.

 

[TheInsider]

PrsM is a work in progress. It is programmed to go as long as 1770km at hypersonic speeds.
Current missile tested managed 400km distance.

US Army’s Precision Strike Missile breaks range record

Lockheed Martin's Precision Strike Missile, the U.S. Army's next-generation deep-strike capability, reached 400 kilometers in a test at White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico.

www.defensenews.com

This is a missile that was developed from ATACMS 610mm diameter 4m long 300km range missile.
Technologies used on propulsion, mechanical side and fuel in the development of this missile are cutting edge and quite different when compared to eastern techs that Russia , China and Turkey use.
The actual missile tested was supposed to have a 430mm diameter and 390cm length with a weight of 771kg. It was to have a 91kg explosive warhead. The missile was designed to travel at speeds in excess of 6mach.

Raytheon conducts first arena test of DeepStrike warhead

Raytheon Missile Systems has conducted a successful arena test of the intended advanced warhead for its DeepStrike surface-to-surface missile (SSM).

www.janes.com

We do not have enough information about the trajectory and the propulsion technology of this missile. But when finished it will be ground breaking. That is for sure.
But we can look at the Lora missile;
Depending on it’s range it weighs between 1.6 ton and 1.8 ton and manages around 280km to 400km range respectively. It has a an explosive weight of 400 kg to 570 kg. Using better fuels and lower weight materials with a diameter of 610mm it is comparable to Bora1. But Bora’s technology is not at the same level as where Lora’s is. They have access to US’s latest missile tech. We don’t. But we are managing quite well on our own nevertheless.
Putting a missile in orbit and firing a missile to hit a ground target with an explosive are two very different processes. (SM3 missile can go 1200km high and is only 1.5tons in weight. It is 655cm in length and only 345 mm in diameter. ) Totally different kinematics involved.

PrsM exceeded 500km in the most recent tests. It actually traveled more than 500km but the exact range is undisclosed.

Precision Strike Missile test exceeds 500km | ADBR

The Lockheed Martin Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) program achieved a milestone in an October 13 test firing at Vandenburg AFB in California, when it exceeded the 499km range limitation set…

adbr.com.au

PrSM Completes Max Range Flight Test, Fifth Overall | Aviation Week Network

A developmental U.S. Army ballistic missile flew more than 499 km during an Oct. 13 flight test from Vandenberg Space Force Base, California, demonstrating the maximum range of the new weapon a year ahead of a scheduled fielding date in fiscal 2023.

aviationweek.com

Precision Strike Missile (PrSM), United States of America

The Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) is a next-generation, low-risk, long-range surface-to-surface missile developed by Lockheed Martin.

www.army-technology.com

Lora has a 90 to 430km range according to its producer.

https://www.iai.co.il/p/lora

The truth is clear. Both Lora and PrsM can deliver a similar warhead to a longer distance with a substantially lower launch weight. If Lora or PrsM has the same weight budget as Bora they can easily achieve ranges longer than 750km and can possibly reach 1000km that you bring over and over again.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The truth is clear. Both Lora and PrsM can deliver a similar warhead to a longer distance with a substantially lower launch weight. If Lora or PrsM has the same weight budget as Bora they can easily achieve ranges longer than 750km and can possibly reach 1000km that you bring over and over again.

What you don’t seem to understand is the fact that the way these missiles are flying and what their trajectories are like and what they are meant to do effect their range.
Bora built with technologies obtained from the Chinese (Chinese used Russian Iskander as starting point) is very different to Lora. Bora and eastern missiles are heavy missiles. They need to be heavy to have high terminal speeds. A Lora missile that has depleted it’s fuel will be quite light. As it is a quasi ballistic missile like Bora, it will be following similar trajectories. It will be considerably lighter than Bora. Therefore it’s impact terminal speed will be greatly less than Bora.
Lora and PrsM do not deliver similar warheads. PrsM warhead is 90kg. Lora warhead is either 400kg or 570kg depending on it’s end use and range (300km or 430km). We do not have enough technical info on PrsM to discuss the specs in detail. But Lora is more akin to the quasi ballistic missiles of the likes of Bora and Iskander.
A 4600kg Iskander missile will hit it’s target with a speed of around 5 Mach. Bora would hit it’s target with 3-4 Mach. But Lora would hit with around 2 Mach. These are tactical short range ballistic missiles designed and built accordingly. There is an optimum trade off point with “fuel-explosive weight-speed-range-total weight” .
For a tactical SRBM it is between 250km and 600km. Make it too heavy with explosives then you will need more fuel. More fuel means bigger and heavier missile. Increase range by putting more fuel will also mean bigger and even heavier missile.
To build a 2500kg or a 4000kg Lora will mean a bigger and stronger hence heavier missile that will need more fuel which will also mean a larger missile. Then it will not be the ”Lora” we know.
As the range is increased, missile‘s weight , diameter and length increases as well.
Just check out Dong Feng range of Chinese missiles. An 800-1000km range DF16/DF11-A missile is twice the size and weight of DF-12 (Bora class).
DF-15 is a 900km range missile that has 6.2 ton weight, 9.1metre length and 100cm diameter.
Pakistan’s Shaheen SRBM missile has a 1000km range and is a 10ton, 12m long, 100cm diameter missile.
The PrsM actually uses the ATACMS launcher systems and fits only two missiles in to a 6missile launcher. That means the PrsM is quite large and heavy too.

Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) - USAASC

DESCRIPTION: The mission of the Long Range Precision Fires (LRPF) Missile is to attack, neutralize, suppress and destroy targets using missile-delivered indirect precision fires. LRPF provides field artillery units with long-range and deep-strike capability while supporting brigade, division...

asc.army.mil

 

[TheInsider]

Lora can carry a 400kg warhead to a distance of 430km. Bora can carry a 470kg warhead to 360km. They have similar diameters Lora is substantially lighter. A 2500kg Lora can carry the same 400kg warhead to 1000km because nearly all of that extra weight will be fuel. Not only does this mean more fuel to burn but it also means the percentage of fuel in the rocket's total launch weight will be a lot higher. More fuel more delta V simple as that. You can google rocket equation and work your way from there.

 

[UkroTurk]

They need to be heavy to have high terminal speeds.

İt would be great to have such a firepower in Turkish submarines.

Is there any chance BORA missiles launched from TurNavy's submarines?


Check South Korean ballistic missile sub out! Not too big, not too exaggerated. 6 SRBM in 3000 ton submarine.

South Korea Test-Fires Ballistic Missile from new KSS III Submarine - Naval News

The ROK Navy completed the final phase of the Korean Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile (K-SLBM) development, by successfully launching a ballistic missile from a 3000t submarine under water. South Korea has now officially become the 8th country in the world that possesses indigenous SLBMs.

www.navalnews.com

İt seems launching Heavy Ballistic missiles from frigates/ warships' deck causes fire hazard. So Navies tend to launch from under the water.

 

[Heartbang]

İt would be great to have such a firepower in Turkish submarines.

Is there any chance BORA missiles launched from TurNavy's submarines?


Check South Korean ballistic missile sub out! Not too big, not too exaggerated. 6 SRBM in 3000 ton submarine.

View attachment 44302

South Korea Test-Fires Ballistic Missile from new KSS III Submarine - Naval News

The ROK Navy completed the final phase of the Korean Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile (K-SLBM) development, by successfully launching a ballistic missile from a 3000t submarine under water. South Korea has now officially become the 8th country in the world that possesses indigenous SLBMs.

www.navalnews.com

İt seems launching Heavy Ballistic missiles from frigates/ warships' deck causes fire hazard. So Navies tend to launch from under the water.

Turkish navy doesnt have a submarine this big,yet. but if they are not considering this for MILDEN, they are morons, plain and simple.

 

[UkroTurk]

Turkish navy doesnt have a submarine this big,yet. but if they are not considering this for MILDEN, they are morons, plain and simple.

İt costs one billion USD to South Koreans. With a rich gulf partner , Türkiye could build it. KSA would love to have Ballistic missiles submarine.

Anyway Turkish Navy might be waiting for Ramjet powered supersonic cruise missiles instead of SRBM.


Our army is really smart and wise.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Lora can carry a 400kg warhead to a distance of 430km. Bora can carry a 470kg warhead to 360km. They have similar diameters Lora is substantially lighter. A 2500kg Lora can carry the same 400kg warhead to 1000km because nearly all of that extra weight will be fuel. Not only does this mean more fuel to burn but it also means the percentage of fuel in the rocket's total launch weight will be a lot higher. More fuel more delta V simple as that. You can google rocket equation and work your way from there.

A missile is a vehicle that is propelled through air by a rocket engine or a jet engine.
A rocket is a vehicle that can be propelled through vacuum and air.
Rockets that are designed to fly predominantly in space and are very different to those that are designed to fly back to earth following a ballistic trajectory.
A 2500kg Lora will be very different to the 1.6-1.8 ton Lora that is in use today. Current Lora with 300km range carry more explosive (570kg). By replacing some of the weight of the explosive with fuel it manages 430km range. If you build a 2500kg weight Lora it will have to have much sturdier construction to carry extra weight. It will have to be bigger and heavier. Yes it will manage to carry more fuel. But a good deal of that fuel will be used to propel that extra weight. There is a trade off of weight and fuel. I have given you examples of 1000km rockets in use. They are much bigger in size and weight. Russians and Chinese have been building these rockets for decades. Do you think they are too dumb not to be able to produce a 2500kg rocket that will go 1000km?
One important point that needs to be considered is that these quasi ballistic missiles when attacking their targets MUST have an angle of attack as perpendicular as possible to avoid easy interception and maximum terminal speed. This particular necessity will also limit the range that will be available to them.
You can’t simply say yes 2500kg Lora will go 1000km.
I say it can’t. If you say it can then prove it!

İt would be great to have such a firepower in Turkish submarines.

Is there any chance BORA missiles launched from TurNavy's submarines?


Check South Korean ballistic missile sub out! Not too big, not too exaggerated. 6 SRBM in 3000 ton submarine.

View attachment 44302

South Korea Test-Fires Ballistic Missile from new KSS III Submarine - Naval News

The ROK Navy completed the final phase of the Korean Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile (K-SLBM) development, by successfully launching a ballistic missile from a 3000t submarine under water. South Korea has now officially become the 8th country in the world that possesses indigenous SLBMs.

www.navalnews.com

İt seems launching Heavy Ballistic missiles from frigates/ warships' deck causes fire hazard. So Navies tend to launch from under the water.

The submarines we are building do not have vertical launch capability. Any missiles that they can launch are restricted to the 533mm diameter torpedo tubes that are available. As per @heartbang mentioned our subs‘ tonnage is too small to accommodate a Bora class missile as well.
S Koreans have developed these two stage 4.8 ton missiles to carry a ton of explosives to destroy North’s underground missile silos.

 

[Heartbang]

MILDEN needs to be a SSGN/SSBN design. anything lesser in this geopolitical climate wont do.

 

[Yasar_TR]

MILDEN needs to be a SSGN/SSBN design. anything lesser in this geopolitical climate wont do.

These two terminologies, if I am not mistaken, mean;
Sub Surface Guided Nuclear.
Sub Surface Ballistic Nuclear.
Where are we going to acquire the nuclear reactors? Or obtain nuclear heads?
Yes to be a world wide power you need this capability. But we have a long way to go yet. There are only a handful of countries that have this capability. (US, Russia, UK, France, China, India……?.?)

 

[Quasar]

-our anti ship ballistic missiles will be a valuable asset but ballistic missiles in general even with increased accuarcy are not very efficent or sustainable delivery systems.

-our artillery rocket systems, TRG 300 type guided misiles or Bora have more value in tactical missions in support of our manoeuvring forces.

-Sure I also want to see 1500 km or 2000 km balistic missiles but I belive Bora, TRG 300 or artillery rocket systems for instance have more practical value in the field.

-building a sub to carry 6 ballistic missiles with conventional warhead is not the smartest thing to do unless it has a specific mission as in the case of South Korea i.e attacing North Korean silos??? 6 balistic missiles may carry lets say approximatly 6 tons, for comparisan a single F 16 carries arround 7 tons and F 16 is reuseable

 

[Yasar_TR]

-our anti ship ballistic missiles will be a valuable asset but ballistic missiles in general even with increased accuary are not a very efficent or sustaiable delivery systems.

-our artillery rocket systems or TRG 300 type guided misiles have more value in tactical missions in support of our manoeuvring forces.

-Sure I also want to see 1500 km or 2000 km balistic missiles but I belive Bora or TRG 300 for instance have more practical value in the field.

-building a sub to carry 6 ballistic missiles with conventional warhead is not the smartest thing to do unless it has a specific mission as in the case of South Korea i.e attacing North Korean silos??? 6 balistic missiles may carry approximatly 6 ton for comparisan a single F 16 carries arround 7 tons and a F 16 is reuseable

Quite right!
1 million dollar a piece Bora is not a missile that can be expended easily. These are very inefficient methods of conveying explosives to their targets. There are AD systems nowadays that can neutralise these missiles. So unless you are able to saturate the target or have already destroyed your enemy’s AD facilities, they may not be too effective.
Common conventional artillery is still the king of the battlefield. 1000dollar a round is more manageable than expensive ballistic missiles. 122mm, 230mm and the 300mm artillery rockets are comparatively more efficient methods than ballistic missiles, especially for precision surgical strikes. Unless you intend to deliver biological or tactical nuclear weapons, Bora class ballistic missiles are far too expensive way to deliver 480kg of conventional explosives.
I would however, love to see a Bora2 with 5-600km range that can hit moving sea targets. 10 Bora missiles at 10 million dollars for a billion dollar destroyer is a good trade any day. It would even be a better trade if the target were an A/C.