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FPXAllen

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does paspamres will wear batik uniform ?
Probably not. Well, some of them at least.

AFAIK, Paspamres equipment none better than Brimob on Papua.
That might be true, but although they have combat capabilty and experiences, they have underwent more rigorous training to protect our VVIP at all cost.

Anyway, do you remember the case when a Paspampres kicked a moge rider when his convoy passed by the presidential palace? If anything, it clearly shows that they were trained to have a quicker reaction time than regular troops.
 

Van Kravchenko

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have a quicker reaction time than regular troops
111024bpaspamres.jpg


Remember Me ?
 

FPXAllen

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Well, even the US Secret Service had their 'bad hair' days:



But nobody can say that they're not highly trained.
 

Var Dracon

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I'm a part-time artist, and the way DALL-E AI drew characters reminds me of certain kinds of people's patterns of behavior when it comes to art. When a person is lacking in terms of social connection, being closed off, and in general anti-social, they tend to have difficulties drawing a human face or facial expressions, and are uncomfortable in drawing animated humans with emotion.

Such people are similar to DALL-E AI in this regard; they cannot understand human emotion, which is expressed more significantly by the face. That lack of understanding makes them unable to comprehend how to draw a natural face, the lack of realistic eyes is notoriously telling as you can see in the above DALL-E results. I also tried DALL-E yesterday, and they consistently (and creepily) omit the face of a human figure.
You mean DALL-E mini right? DALL-E 2 is much more advanced and detailed
 

morningstar

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Parties need to change. Democratic process within themselves have to be the first, instead of 1 people lead the party without meaningful check and balances and constant threat of change from their current position. Democracy for self-repairing mechanism.

PDIP itself kind of make Soekarno as cult of personality. Like he was the perfect and flawless. Moh. Hatta, Sutan Sjahrir, those who against him in Liga Demokrasi1 must be disagree with it.

1: Army–backed Political group that made of people from Partai Sosialis Indonesia, Masjumi and other political affiliations that against Soekarno (and PKI) after Presidential Decree 1959.

PSI who called as Sosialis Kanan and Sosialis Salon by the PKI and more cosmopolitan Masyumi, not like what those who called themselves Masyumi today were both known anti–PKI had interesting history. PSI and PKI both slaughtered each other in writing and Masyumi PM, Wirjosanjojo, was waged secret war with PKI during early 50s that called as Razia Agustus. He was almost covertly made Indonesia became US allies, but when the plan got to the surface, those who had ties with PKI started to made a mass protest with bebas–aktif stuff as their reason.
 

Jagdflieger

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Don't get me wrong guys, but for countries such as Indonesia it doesn't matter if the electoral process or the ruling party is democratic or autocratic.

The "true" cause/agenda of a respective party and it's leaders towards corruption is the deciding issue. Once corruption is eradicated or brought down to an "appropriate" level, only then can a country and it's society really develop. - just my 5 cents.
 

Gundala

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Parties need to change. Democratic process within themselves have to be the first, instead of 1 people lead the party without meaningful check and balances and constant threat of change from their current position. Democracy for self-repairing mechanism.
Ada proses demokrasi disana tapi modelnya masih "terpimpin". Untuk menjalankan demokrasi yang kita harapkan mungkin butuh waktu puluhan mungkin ratusan tahun buat tercapai. Variabel utk kearah sana masih jauh untuk bisa terpenuhi seperti pemerataan pendidikan, kesejahteraan, dan lain-lain. Semua ada kaitannya, jika dipaksakan akan menimbulkan "raja-raja" kecil seperti yang ada sekarang dan mendorong polarisasi yang ujungnya membahayakan persatuan & kesatuan. Intinya biarkan ini berkembang sesuai dengan waktu, kesiapan masyarakatnya dan sejalan dengan perubahan kultur budaya. Perlu diingat kultur budaya Feodal itu kental sekali di negara ini, mulai dari bentuk kerajaan jaman dulu, penjajahan sampai era demokrasi terpimpin di Soekarno & Soeharto. It takes time ;)

Kalau kita melihat keluar di jaman now, mau itu demokrasi, sosialis, multi partai, single partai, kerajaan, dll yang penting bisa menciptakan serta menjamin stabilitas politik dan keamanan dalam negri untuk mendorong pertumbuhan ekonomi. Sejarah Korea Selatan, Tiongkok, Vietnam, Inggris, Amerika dan kondisi mereka sekarang bisa jadi bahan argumentasi diatas. None of those countries have no flaws in their system, what matter the most if finding the right one that fit our culture & needs.

Don't get me wrong guys, but for countries such as Indonesia it doesn't matter if the electoral process or the ruling party is democratic or autocratic.

The "true" cause/agenda of a respective party and it's leaders towards corruption is the deciding issue. Once corruption is eradicated or brought down to an "appropriate" level, only then can a country and it's society really develop. - just my 5 cents.
Couldnt agree more. But to fight it we will need radical changes in political systems, with that kind of move it will create noise too loud for this republic to handle imho. Stability is the key issues and it link to economic progress, investment risk, political stability and so on which are all the parameter of foreign invesment calculation. Perhaps what we have now is the "appropiate" one for the current condition? :LOL::LOL:
 

morningstar

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Semua ada kaitannya, jika dipaksakan akan menimbulkan "raja-raja" kecil seperti yang ada sekarang dan mendorong polarisasi yang ujungnya membahayakan persatuan & kesatuan.
Kalo mau gila lagi, sistemnya dibuat terbuka banget sampe orang bukan siapa-siapa bisa ngomong juga. Ini di partainya lho, jadi di partai itu bukan 1 strongman/woman hampir gak ada yang ngelawan, bebas mau ngapain aja.

Swiss itu malah per tahun primus inter paresnya ganti. Jadi ada kumpulan 9 orang kalo gak salah, hasil pilihan parlemen. Jadi nanti itu bergilir gitu per tahun. Tahun ini partai apa, tahun depan beda lagi. Ngeri itu bahkan untuk partai oposisinya, gak bisa asal kritik, tahun depan mereka gantian, bisa-bisa tambah parah dari yang sekarang wkwk.
Kalau kita melihat keluar di jaman now, mau itu demokrasi, sosialis, multi partai, single partai, kerajaan, dll yang penting bisa menciptakan serta menjamin stabilitas politik dan keamanan dalam negri untuk mendorong pertumbuhan ekonomi.
Kerajaan-kerajaan Teluk, Brunei, RRC gitu mau? Kalo misal pemerintah itu semena-mena parah gak bisa secara legal jatuhin pemerintah itu, mau gak mau harus pake keringet sama darah. Kalo mau understandable, yang penting makmur dulu nanti rakyatnya ngikut bagus semua-semuanya.

harapannya rakyatnya pingin bebas dari pemerintah yang gak bisa ganti itu
 

Jagdflieger

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Couldnt agree more. But to fight it we will need radical changes in political systems, with that kind of move it will create noise too loud for this republic to handle imho. Stability is the key issues and it link to economic progress, investment risk, political stability and so on which are all the parameter of foreign invesment calculation. Perhaps what we have now is the "appropiate" one for the current condition? :LOL::LOL:
From what I have seen/observed worldwide and especially S.E.A. - the population can and does revolt - see Suharto's ending. However once the "new" government is in place it becomes more a "change of pockets" then actually combating corruption. As such one could also say that the respective politicians or their parties are simply using the populations discontent in order to get rich themselves.

Corruption is a society-cultural based issue - which IMO can only be changed via a long term approach e.g. 20-25 years. Usually democratic parties never get to see such a ruling term. So it comes down to a party having a so called strongman. Usually "strongman" are not of a democratic nature but tend far more towards being autocratic leaders. Or initially being of democratic origins but then out of necessity reverting to "ridding opposition" and implementing "forcefully if necessary" respective laws in order to change a present society or parts of it's culture. - via educational reforms.

Take China as an example - no please do not throw stones at me yet. :)

In 2008 it was still common "culture" in China for patients or their families to pay extra money to a doctor to obtain "special care" for e.g. an operation.
In 2014 doctors complained about people offering them money - which they refused to take - but then caused "unhappiness" amongst those patients who simple thought, oh my God that doctor isn't willing to perform a good operation.
From 2012 to now, laws were enacted (and are absolutely followed up open by government institutions) to punish doctors taking money and those offering money.
And so called "hospital surgical incidents" were far more inspected upon and serious actions implemented towards such cases. At the same time salaries were increased in order to guarantee a doctors or a nurses good living style.

Since about 2020 I have not heard from doctors (have couple of friends who are hospital doctors and directors) that people are still into that practice. I am not saying that in rural China this practice is eradicated yet. But it shows what a determined "autocratic" government can actually achieve towards society-cultural issues. And whilst the government is taking steps towards actual corruption issue - it introduces these issues and it's causes into the educational process aka schools.

Give it another 10-15 years and you will have a society - that expects rightfully for doctors to be trained respectively in order to do their job - and in general no one will be willing to put forward money to receive the appropriate medical treatment. Not needing to put forward money automatically reduces the patients or their family members to participate in a corruption practice themselves in order to "accumulate" such monetary reserves.

Personally IMO, in S.E.A. a democratic party and it's leaders would never be able or even willing to implement such a program. (because they would be immediately torpedoed towards such an implementation) via, no money - our defense is more important, or pay more for the farmers crops first, build more Mosques first, etc. etc. - just saying:)

if you don't like China as an example - maybe Germany might be one too.
Until 1880 Germany and it's institutions were just as corrupt as those now in Indonesia or e.g. Malaysia.
But upon the founding of Imperial Germany in 1871 - Germany had an absolute "Strongman" - not the emperor but his Chancellor Bismarck. (called the Iron Chancellor) an absolute autocrat and hater of democracy or a so called constitutional monarchy.

He developed draconian measures to punish and other actions to rid all German government and related institutions from corruption. And in parallel reformed the education system - in regards to "what a good German" is to be.
By around 1895 government corruption in Germany more or less did not exist any more - and 1895 also marked the rise of Germany to an economic and military Superpower.

But he was an autocratic Strongman supported also by an autocratic minded monarchy.
 
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Madokafc

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Terima Delegasi Inggris, Menhan Prabowo Buka Peluang Kerja sama Industri Pertahanan dan Pendidikan​

Jumat, 24 Juni 2022



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Jakarta –
Menteri Pertahanan RI Prabowo Subianto menerima kunjungan kerja Director UK Defence and Security Export Mr. Mark Goldsack CBE dan UK Cyber Security Ambassador Ms. Juliette Wilcox CMG, di Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemhan), Jakarta, Rabu (23/6).

Mengawali pembicaraan, Menhan Prabowo menyampaikan apresiasi atas kunjungan kerja delegasi Inggris, terlebih selama ini Indonesia menganggap Inggris sebagai sahabat dan mitra yang sangat penting serta strategis di bidang pertahanan sejak tahun 1960-an.
IMG-20220624-WA0010-1024x760.jpg


“Saya menyadari bahwa perjanjian kerja sama pertahanan di antara negara kita mencakup banyak aspek sektor pertahanan. Ini berarti banyak peluang masih terbuka bagi kedua belah pihak, untuk meningkatkan kerja sama seperti industri pertahanan dan pendidikan,” ungkap Menhan Prabowo.

Sementara itu, Director UK Defence and Security Export Mr. Mark Goldsack CBE kepada Menhan Prabowo menekankan hubungan kerja sama pertahanan kedua negara yang terjalin baik. “Sebagai mitra strategis, Inggris mendukung visi Indonesia dalam industri pertahanan yang mandiri untuk memenuhi kebutuhan Angkatan Bersenjatanya,” ucap Goldsack.

Dalam rencana strategis pertahanan jangka menengah dan panjang, Menhan Prabowo mengatakan bahwa Indonesia akan melengkapi sistem pertahanannya dengan alutsista modern dan terintegrasi.

Guna mencapai tujuan tersebut, Indonesia tengah membangun industri pertahanan nasional yang maju, modern dan mandiri. Juga selalu membuka kesempatan untuk mengembangkan kerja sama industri pertahanan bersama semua negara dengan prinsip saling menguntungkan.

“Merujuk pada kunjungan terakhir saya ke London Maret lalu, kami akan dengan senang hati melakukan diskusi berkelanjutan mengenai kerja sama pertahanan antara Indonesia dan Inggris dan saya berharap hubungan pertahanan bilateral kedua negara akan diperkuat di masa depan,” jelas Menhan Prabowo. (Biro Humas Setjen Kemhan)

 

Madokafc

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Menhan Prabowo Terima Delegasi UEA, Bahas Peningkatan Kerja Sama Pertahanan​

Jumat, 24 Juni 2022





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Jakarta –
Menteri Pertahanan RI Prabowo Subianto menerima kunjungan kerja Delegasi Uni Emirat Arab (UEA) yang dipimpin Assistant Undersecretary for Support and Defence Industries of UAE MoD MG. Dr. Mubarak Al Jabari, di Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemhan) Jakarta, Selasa (23/6).
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Menhan Prabowo menyampaikan bahwa Indonesia membuka peluang kerja sama pertahanan melalui pertukaran pelajar serta penelitian dan pengembangan antara Universitas Pertahanan Republik Indonesia dengan UEA NDU.

“Merupakan kehormatan bagi saya untuk mendiskusikan isu-isu dan menghasilkan solusi dengan Assistant Undersecretary for Support and Defence Industries of UAE MoD MG. Dr. Mubarak Al Jabari, dan selanjutnya saya berharap, kerja sama serta persahabatan antara RI-UEA dapat dipertahankan dalam semangat persaudaraan dengan prinsip-prinsip saling menghormati”, jelas Menhan Prabowo. (Biro Humas Setjen Kemhan)

 

Jagdflieger

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RadenSudirman

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Terima Delegasi Inggris, Menhan Prabowo Buka Peluang Kerja sama Industri Pertahanan dan Pendidikan​

Jumat, 24 Juni 2022



1656057069991_IMG-20220624-WA0012-1024x760.jpg
IMG-20220624-WA0011-1024x760.jpg
Jakarta –
Menteri Pertahanan RI Prabowo Subianto menerima kunjungan kerja Director UK Defence and Security Export Mr. Mark Goldsack CBE dan UK Cyber Security Ambassador Ms. Juliette Wilcox CMG, di Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemhan), Jakarta, Rabu (23/6).

Mengawali pembicaraan, Menhan Prabowo menyampaikan apresiasi atas kunjungan kerja delegasi Inggris, terlebih selama ini Indonesia menganggap Inggris sebagai sahabat dan mitra yang sangat penting serta strategis di bidang pertahanan sejak tahun 1960-an.
IMG-20220624-WA0010-1024x760.jpg


“Saya menyadari bahwa perjanjian kerja sama pertahanan di antara negara kita mencakup banyak aspek sektor pertahanan. Ini berarti banyak peluang masih terbuka bagi kedua belah pihak, untuk meningkatkan kerja sama seperti industri pertahanan dan pendidikan,” ungkap Menhan Prabowo.

Sementara itu, Director UK Defence and Security Export Mr. Mark Goldsack CBE kepada Menhan Prabowo menekankan hubungan kerja sama pertahanan kedua negara yang terjalin baik. “Sebagai mitra strategis, Inggris mendukung visi Indonesia dalam industri pertahanan yang mandiri untuk memenuhi kebutuhan Angkatan Bersenjatanya,” ucap Goldsack.

Dalam rencana strategis pertahanan jangka menengah dan panjang, Menhan Prabowo mengatakan bahwa Indonesia akan melengkapi sistem pertahanannya dengan alutsista modern dan terintegrasi.

Guna mencapai tujuan tersebut, Indonesia tengah membangun industri pertahanan nasional yang maju, modern dan mandiri. Juga selalu membuka kesempatan untuk mengembangkan kerja sama industri pertahanan bersama semua negara dengan prinsip saling menguntungkan.

“Merujuk pada kunjungan terakhir saya ke London Maret lalu, kami akan dengan senang hati melakukan diskusi berkelanjutan mengenai kerja sama pertahanan antara Indonesia dan Inggris dan saya berharap hubungan pertahanan bilateral kedua negara akan diperkuat di masa depan,” jelas Menhan Prabowo. (Biro Humas Setjen Kemhan)

Damn, just realized I kinda look like Wowo irl

From what I have seen/observed worldwide and especially S.E.A. - the population can and does revolt - see Suharto's ending. However once the "new" government is in place it becomes more a "change of pockets" then actually combating corruption. As such one could also say that the respective politicians or their parties are simply using the populations discontent in order to get rich themselves.

Corruption is a society-cultural based issue - which IMO can only be changed via a long term approach e.g. 20-25 years. Usually democratic parties never get to see such a ruling term. So it comes down to a party having a so called strongman. Usually "strongman" are not of a democratic nature but tend far more towards being autocratic leaders. Or initially being of democratic origins but then out of necessity reverting to "ridding opposition" and implementing "forcefully if necessary" respective laws in order to change a present society or parts of it's culture. - via educational reforms.

Take China as an example - no please do not throw stones at me yet. :)

In 2008 it was still common "culture" in China for patients or their families to pay extra money to a doctor to obtain "special care" for e.g. an operation.
In 2014 doctors complained about people offering them money - which they refused to take - but then caused "unhappiness" amongst those patients who simple thought, oh my God that doctor isn't willing to perform a good operation.
From 2012 to now, laws were enacted (and are absolutely followed up open by government institutions) to punish doctors taking money and those offering money.
And so called "hospital surgical incidents" were far more inspected upon and serious actions implemented towards such cases. At the same time salaries were increased in order to guarantee a doctors or a nurses good living style.

Since about 2020 I have not heard from doctors (have couple of friends who are hospital doctors and directors) that people are still into that practice. I am not saying that in rural China this practice is eradicated yet. But it shows what a determined "autocratic" government can actually achieve towards society-cultural issues. And whilst the government is taking steps towards actual corruption issue - it introduces these issues and it's causes into the educational process aka schools.

Give it another 10-15 years and you will have a society - that expects rightfully for doctors to be trained respectively in order to do their job - and in general no one will be willing to put forward money to receive the appropriate medical treatment. Not needing to put forward money automatically reduces the patients or their family members to participate in a corruption practice themselves in order to "accumulate" such monetary reserves.

Personally IMO, in S.E.A. a democratic party and it's leaders would never be able or even willing to implement such a program. (because they would be immediately torpedoed towards such an implementation) via, no money - our defense is more important, or pay more for the farmers crops first, build more Mosques first, etc. etc. - just saying:)

if you don't like China as an example - maybe Germany might be one too.
Until 1880 Germany and it's institutions were just as corrupt as those now in Indonesia or e.g. Malaysia.
But upon the founding of Imperial Germany in 1871 - Germany had an absolute "Strongman" - not the emperor but his Chancellor Bismarck. (called the Iron Chancellor) an absolute autocrat and hater of democracy or a so called constitutional monarchy.

He developed draconian measures to punish and other actions to rid all German government and related institutions from corruption. And in parallel reformed the education system - in regards to "what a good German" is to be.
By around 1895 government corruption in Germany more or less did not exist any more - and 1895 also marked the rise of Germany to an economic and military Superpower.

But he was an autocratic Strongman supported also by an autocratic minded monarchy.
Well corruption cannot really be eradicated without financial reforms

Back then, even until now many government workers and soldiers are having mediocre pay and facility, most are only slightly better paid than most peasants. So when you bust all corruptions and clean the government, congratulation now you have to compensate more for these workers and soldiers because otherwise they will starve, embezzle money, or simply do nothing to save cost.

Corruption happens not only because people are corrupt, but because the govt pay is absolutely terrible across the board and simply not competitive enough to justify extra performance. Back in the 90s even Suharto admitted this, and at that time govt pay was far below real living cost and stagnated in real nominal value vs the rampant inflation. So even feeding themselves was impossible for most govt employees if they only use their salary alone, hence they did many corrupt practices to fill in the gap.

Indonesian government nowadays relies on "corruption eradication" and "bureaucratic reforms" with so many institutions having specific functions for that purpose, rather than focusing on "financial reform". Because the mf don't have the money to even compensate their own mens, heck not even enough to achieve bar minimum standard for most employees and the mfs knew it. Forget about wanting to recruit the best college graduates, the pay isn't even good for the standard of highschool droupouts.
 

Jagdflieger

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Damn, just realized I kinda look like Wowo irl


Well corruption cannot really be eradicated without financial reforms

Back then, even until now many government workers and soldiers are having mediocre pay and facility, most are only slightly better paid than most peasants. So when you bust all corruptions and clean the government, congratulation now you have to compensate more for these workers and soldiers because otherwise they will starve, embezzle money, or simply do nothing to save cost.

Corruption happens not only because people are corrupt, but because the govt pay is absolutely terrible across the board and simply not competitive enough to justify extra performance. Back in the 90s even Suharto admitted this, and at that time govt pay was far below real living cost and stagnated in real nominal value vs the rampant inflation. So even feeding themselves was impossible for most govt employees if they only use their salary alone, hence they did many corrupt practices to fill in the gap.

Indonesian government nowadays relies on "corruption eradication" and "bureaucratic reforms" with so many institutions having specific functions for that purpose, rather than focusing on "financial reform". Because the mf don't have the money to even compensate their own mens, heck not even enough to achieve bar minimum standard for most employees and the mfs knew it. Forget about wanting to recruit the best college graduates, the pay isn't even good for the standard of highschool droupouts.
Correct - but a corruption policy/program also includes e.g. the seizure of $ and assets held by the perpetrators of corruption - especially the billions held by the "big" boys. - btw. that is exactly how LKY did it in 1971/73- seize corruption assets - divert budgets e.g. military procurement for 2 years - and raise the pay of police, military and customs officials.
Off course Singapore being much smaller - made it far easier for LKY.
As for China - I don't have precise figures of the total value (likely trillions) - but the "assets" taken away from just two very prominent government figures alone accounted for US$45 billion. Those of two public tycoons amounted to around US$ 50 billion. One tycoon who ran away to Canada is accused by China to have accumulated US$ 20 billion already in 2000. It is however rumored that there were several assassination and coup attempts towards Xi. Just proves that even for an autocratic strongman these issues aren't easy or simple. - but can be achieved.
 

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