TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[MADDOG]

HURJET's canopy

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Ismail Demir: "Hürjet's domestic engine project is currently on the drawing board but we don't see it as a priority since we have more priority projects. Our priorities are in other engine projects."

"The armed version of Hurjet will also be equipped with systems for air-air combat missions"

 

[Zafer]

Such a marginally important plane and you suggest that Türkiye make an engine for it spending a lot of its energy on it instead of on something else that really matters like the Özgün engine for MMU or the TF6000 which needs the attention

Ismail Demir: "Hürjet's domestic engine project is currently on the drawing board but we don't see it as a priority since we have more priority projects. Our priorities are in other engine projects."

Yeah, my words earlier today and İsmail Demir's words later today, like carbon copy.

 

[TechNamu]

"The armed version of Hurjet will also be equipped with systems for air-air combat missions"

Hurjet will have Italian AESA radar in prototype

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551953803200659457

If we were to believe the previous report, Hurjet will be equppied with Italian AESA radar and It is probably going to be Leonardo Grifo series which already supports the air-to-air combat mode. I wonder what "systems" that Ismail Demir claims to be missing from the AJT (non-armed) version of Hurjet. Is it a hardware for data-link? or is it NVIS? or is it an advanced RWR system or even CMDS? Some of those systems are definitely missing from Hurjet (AJT).

I thought the AJT variant and the armed variant were practically the same hardware-wise and It is only a matter of weapon integration. It appears the gap between two version might be bigger than I initially thought.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558008679949123586

comparing Hürjet, Gripen and JF-17

 

[Lool]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558008679949123586

comparing Hürjet, Gripen and JF-17

Hurjet is truly a beautiful project; along with MMU, Iam quite happy with Tusas progress in the last decade. An amazing progress by TAI within the span of only 6 years to develop Hurjet and only 7 years for TFX after Turkey was kicked out of F35 and the govt announced that it will speed up the TFX program in 2017. Truly happy and TAI deserves to be the best company in Turkey

Iam literally on pins and needles waiting to see hurjet flying

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558008679949123586

comparing Hürjet, Gripen and JF-17

Gripen specifications show how much a good airframe makes all the difference. OK the engine used has 400lbf more thrust than the one on Hurjet. But also the Swedish plane has delta wings to give it better lift and canards to make it more agile. Nevertheless to have 50% more range and nearly double usable payload capacity is very interesting.
These specifications above actually belong to C block planes.
Gripen E however has a 22000lbf class F414-G engine powering it. It’s airframe design is further enhanced. In all honesty; This plane is designed to be a fully fledged fighter. Not a trainer.
Rather than Gripen the KAI-T50 would have been a better plane to compare with Hurjet. Their end uses are similar.
By the way, GE is developing another F414 “enhanced” engine with all blisk fans and new compressor sections that can develop 26000lbf thrust, to be used in the F/A18-E Super Hornets and F/A18-G Growlers.

 

[Radko]

Gripen specifications show how much a good airframe makes all the difference. OK the engine used has 1400lbf more thrust than the one on Hurjet. But also the Swedish plane has delta wings to give it better lift and canards to make it more agile. Nevertheless to have 50% more range and nearly double usable payload capacity is very interesting.
These specifications above actually belong to C block planes.
Gripen E however has a 22000lbf class F414-G engine powering it. It’s airframe design is further enhanced. In all honesty; This plane is designed to be a fully fledged fighter. Not a trainer.
Rather than Gripen the KAI-T50 would have been a better plane to compare with Hurjet. Their end uses are similar.
By the way, GE is developing another F414 “enhanced” engine with all blisk fans and new compressor sections that can develop 26000lbf thrust, to be used in the F/A18-E Super Hornets and F/A18-G Growlers.

Well to be fair Hürjet was not designed to be like Gripen but a trainer role. But yeah good airframe and I like the looks of it

 

[TechNamu]

Nevertheless to have 50% more range and nearly double usable payload capacity is very interesting.

Because It is actually Ferry Range with 3 x 300 gal drop tanks. Also, Gripen C/D has used more expensive composite materials to reduce its weight, but still manages to be slightly larger. Thus, it holds more internal fuel. There is no magic in Aerospace Engineering.

All single engine aircrafts powered by F404 such as T-50, Tejas and Gripen C/D share similar fundmenetals since suprise suprise they employ the same engine which is the most integral part of aircrafts. They only differ by design choice for each need. For instance, both T-50 & Hurjet have wing, body, tail and inlet designs that are geared towards reducing drag & increasing stability as a trainer jet. Canard Delta Wing design has merit, but it increases drag & reduces stability (not entirely true, but you get an idea). No wonder not many countries are thrilled with the trainer variant of Tejas which has Delta Wing design.

Aircraft design is all about compromise. Hurjet is designed to be a trainer & Gripen C/D and JF-17 are designed to be a combat aircraft. It is not a good comparison.

 

[Yasar_TR]

All single engine aircrafts powered by F404 such as T-50, Tejas and Gripen C/D share similar fundmenetals since suprise suprise they employ the same engine which is the most integral part of aircrafts.

Only true in name though!
Hurjet F404-102 has a maximum thrust of 17700lbf
Tejas F404-IN20 has a maximum thrust of 19000lbf
Gripen-C F404-RM12 (Volvo) has a maximum thrust of 18100lbf
Only the KAI-T50 uses the same power output F404-102 engine as Hurjet. Albeit produced by Samsung under licence.

Tejas‘s MTOW is 13500kg
KAI-T50‘s MTOW is 12300kg
Gripen-C’s MTOW is 14000kg

Hurjet’s MTOW has not been published yet. But should be closer to KAI-T50’s.

Of all these 4 jets, Hal Tejas and Gripen-C have both delta wings and canards. In spite of the engine power deficit, Gripen has more speed and MTOW. It is also the better performing of the two.

Hurjet with multiple uses is going to present a number of hurdles to the designers. According to Mr Demir, in addition to the trainer version, there will be a light attack version of this aircraft as well as a possible Carrier operated version. Hurjet as it is may be underpowered and not structurally sound for Carrier operations. As a light attack aircraft it may need more brawn than it has already as a trainer.
To bring together all three capabilities under one aircraft would not be feasible. Newly designed versions will have to be built.
The most important thing at the moment is, as the first supersonic aircraft, the Hurjet, needs to fly. That is the major target at the moment.

 

[TechNamu]

Only true in name though!
Hurjet F404-102 has a maximum thrust of 17700lbf
Tejas F404-IN20 has a maximum thrust of 19000lbf
Gripen-C F404-RM12 (Volvo) has a maximum thrust of 18100lbf
Only the KAI-T50 uses the same power output F404-102 engine as Hurjet. Albeit produced by Samsung under licence.

Tejas‘s MTOW is 13500kg
KAI-T50‘s MTOW is 12300kg
Gripen-C’s MTOW is 14000kg

Hurjet’s MTOW has not been published yet. But should be closer to KAI-T50’s.

Of all these 4 jets, Hal Tejas and Gripen-C have both delta wings and canards. In spite of the engine power deficit, Gripen has more speed and MTOW. It is also the better performing of the two.

Hurjet with multiple uses is going to present a number of hurdles to the designers. According to Mr Demir, in addition to the trainer version, there will be a light attack version of this aircraft as well as a possible Carrier operated version. Hurjet as it is may be underpowered and not structurally sound for Carrier operations. As a light attack aircraft it may need more brawn than it has already as a trainer.
To bring together all three capabilities under one aircraft would not be feasible. Newly designed versions will have to be built.
The most important thing at the moment is, as the first supersonic aircraft, the Hurjet, needs to fly. That is the major target at the moment.

Again, It comes down to the compromise. They are all fundamentally the same engine, but Sweden & India trade in costs for better thurst as GE allowed them to add more materials to the engine such as thickening blades, which increases endurance of parts and pressure ratio.

If you compare the weight of F404-102/103/402 with F404-IN20 & F404-RM12

F404-102/103/402 - 1,035 kg
F404-RM12 - 1,054 kg
F404-IN20 - 1,072 kg

Pressure ratio (26:1, 27:1 and 28:1) & max. thrust of each engine is in the same order

Also, Delta wing gives Gripen C & Tejas additional lift, which again comes with trade-offs.

Boeing, KAI and TAI aren't fools and their design choice is deliberate with T-7A, T-50 and Hurjet. They could have added more thrust to their aircrafts, but chosen not to do so to essentially save money as their goal is producing affordable advanced trainer aircrafts.

Now, even those advanced trainer planes could have different MTOW. For instance, T-7A's MTOW is reported to be only 5,500kg (Boeing hasn't released official specs, which is suspicious) and that's less than the half of T-50's MTOW.

Boeing-Saab T-7 Red Hawk (eT-7A) 5th Generation Advanced Jet Trainer Aircraft

Page details technical specifications, development, and operational history of the Boeing-Saab T-7 Red Hawk (eT-7A) 5th Generation Advanced Jet Trainer Aircraft including pictures.

www.militaryfactory.com

For Hurjet, we don't know what compromise that TAI has made with the aircraft. Fow now what we know is that payload capacity is 2721kg.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558449249427267586

Interesting post about how AESA and A2A missiles on Hürjet would somehow kickstart more embargos on Turkey.

and @barracudavol1 pointing out that I.D. Doing political propoganda and not having a realistic view on things.

If we omit the political parts. Would turning Hürjet into a fully capable fighter jet with AESA+A2A missiles result in tighter sanctions ?

And why?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558449249427267586

Interesting post about how AESA and A2A missiles on Hürjet would somehow kickstart more embargos on Turkey.

and @barracudavol1 pointing out that I.D. Doing political propoganda and not having a realistic view on things.

If we omit the political parts. Would turning Hürjet into a fully capable fighter jet with AESA+A2A missiles result in tighter sanctions ?

And why?

When we think logically, Hürjet is no less strategic product than T129, especially considering that a design change is being made at present for the variant that will land and take off on the aircraft carrier with the AESA radar and BVR missiles. That's why the US which puts an embargo on T129's engine, will probably be exposed to a similar embargo when Hürjet takes on the flesh but one thing that should not be forgotten is that Hürjet's design work is also done for different engines. Mr. Demir's statements also makes me think that development of a 17000-20000lb engine will also be on their agenda in the medium-long term. Engines for Hurjets to be produced for Turkiye are guaranteed/secured (80 engines). It seems that a path will be followed according to the attitude of US fir export markets in next years.

 

[Zafer]

While Hürjet is a valuable asset with its carrier landing capability it is not alone either. Kızılelma will come before Hürjet and Hürjet's capability will not be the first and certainly not the only one. This fact lessens its critical value for the Turkish military. Therefore an engine sanction will not deprive the Turkish Navy from this capability and will not be effective.

Ukraine may get some pressure from NATO not to provide engines to Türkiye but while Türkiye is Ukraine's best friend this pressure will not work. Baykar's move to set up shop in Ukraine is not for trade purposes alone. This strategy works for everyone that wants peace around the Black sea.

 

[Saithan]

Good points, but while the western countries are ramping up the support to Ukraine a hidden agenda could be to neutralize the aid by T.C. Thus pressuring Ukraine /Motor Sich, hence why it’s important to have Motor Sich domestic engine production in Turkey.

It makes me think that some projects are delayed on purpose to ensure supply chain can keep up with the ongoing progress.

But that strategy has it’s dangers. Like killing a baby in the cradle.
Hence it is important to ensure revealing projects to public in timely manner with tangible results. Lest politicians and their ilk and newspaper shift focus and allow these projects be killed.

So if @Cabatli_TR is right that Hürjet is just as crucial as T129. Then having Gökbey fly with domestic engine would be the first step and proof of our capabilities.

 

[Radko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560309451566899200

Malaysian king signs a plate of Hürjet, is this a sign?

 

[TR_123456]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560309451566899200

Malaysian king signs a plate of Hürjet, is this a sign?

Does the king have a say in this @wolveray ?

 

[Radko]

From the image here, below his sign and date, there is the number "18".

Now you might say we are in 18th of August, and you will be right, but there is already the date over what he is writing.

And my guess is, that "18" is about the tender
For guys who don't know, Malaysia is planning to buy exactly "18" light attack and training jets.

 

[Baris]

From the image here, below his sign and date, there is the number "18".

Now you might say we are in 18th of August, and you will be right, but there is already the date over what he is writing.

And my guess is, that "18" is about the tender
For guys who don't know, Malaysia is planning to buy exactly "18" light attack and training jets.

View attachment 47014

I think he just wrote "best of luck on 18th of March 2023"

 

[Radko]

I think he just wrote "best of luck on 18th of March 2023"

Also possible