TR Marine Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)

[Vergennes]

The real question is, if fighting starts, is France or any other backer of Greece willing to sacrifice troops? I'm talking hundreds, even thousands of troops for Greece's sake?

I doubt it.

Not because he wants to but because he has to,the answer is:All the way!
As @Webslave stated,is Macron going to take that risk?

If a full scale war breaks out,if Greek armed forces are in a bad position and request French military assistance,we would have no other choice than to step in,even if with the prospect of French casualties. The entire French political class as well as the public opinion being so anti-Turkey would support any military interventionism to help Greece. Other European countries would also have no other choice but to military assist Greece.

Actually,Erdogan has made so much enemies in the region that a war would be the right occasion for any country to "settle" their feud with Turkey. Greece does have many allies,Turkey doesn't.

I don't expect any full scale war anytime soon at least,skirmishes are very likely though before both sides are pressured to "restraint".

 

[Turko]

Erdogan is actually testing the Europeans,he thinks they will not make any move,in great part thanks to the Germans who do everything to avoid any escalation.

Nobody knows how far France and Macron are willing to go,but there will be no backtracking now,France's credibility towards our Greek and Cypriot allies (who put lot of faith in France) is at stake here. So we are witnessing a reinforcement of the French military presence in the region.

The real question is how far Erdogan is willing to go ? Putting Nationalistic and sensationalist speeches for internal consumption aside ?

You all Europeans seem to have forgotten about Turkish soveregnity. Do the little islands generate EEZ over all continent shelf? We are also human beings with civil rights as same as you.

 

[Turko]

When the problem against Turkiye , seeing Europeans not questioning all aspects is funny.
İ fully support stance of Turkish goverment however i hate Erdoğan. İt has been matter of the National rights for decades.Not political act of Erdoğan.

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

If a full scale war breaks out,if Greek armed forces are in a bad position and request French military assistance,we would have no other choice than to step in,even if with the prospect of French casualties. The entire French political class as well as the public opinion being so anti-Turkey would support any military interventionism to help Greece. Other European countries would also have no other choice but to military assist Greece.

Actually,Erdogan has made so much enemies in the region that a war would be the right occasion for any country to "settle" their feud with Turkey. Greece does have many allies,Turkey doesn't.

I don't expect any full scale war anytime soon at least,skirmishes are very likely though before both sides are pressured to "restraint".

Greece is perceived by the majority of the European population as an annoying poorhouse and as a kind of "burden", I can say that from experience, because i live in europe - of course, turkey has enemies - but god knows, no european country could justify an intervention only remotely, if the first coffins return from Greece - especially if the refugees storm the direction of europe... Europe has more to lose than to gain, this is also known by Germany, which co-finances all of you (desolate economic situation of France, Spain, Italy, and especially Greece)...

Your personal wishes do not reflect the interest of 500M people - the Greek diaspora is only very strong, that's why the media coverage seems so as if people want to fight for GR, that's why there is so much pressure to win and manipulate approval.... although the USA manipulated and lied for decades, the disappointment about Afghanistan was so big, whole governments committed suicide with their mission... and that was no war with tens of thousands of dead... stop dreaming, my friend

 

[bsruzm]

If a full scale war breaks out,if Greek armed forces are in a bad position and request French military assistance,we would have no other choice than to step in,even if with the prospect of French casualties. The entire French political class as well as the public opinion being so anti-Turkey would support any military interventionism to help Greece. Other European countries would also have no other choice but to military assist Greece.

Actually,Erdogan has made so much enemies in the region that a war would be the right occasion for any country to "settle" their feud with Turkey. Greece does have many allies,Turkey doesn't.

I don't expect any full scale war anytime soon at least,skirmishes are very likely though before both sides are pressured to "restraint".

Bring it on. This isn't a collapsing empire.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

If a full scale war breaks out,if Greek armed forces are in a bad position and request French military assistance,we would have no other choice than to step in,even if with the prospect of French casualties. The entire French political class as well as the public opinion being so anti-Turkey would support any military interventionism to help Greece. Other European countries would also have no other choice but to military assist Greece.

Actually,Erdogan has made so much enemies in the region that a war would be the right occasion for any country to "settle" their feud with Turkey. Greece does have many allies,Turkey doesn't.

I don't expect any full scale war anytime soon at least,skirmishes are very likely though before both sides are pressured to "restraint".

I agree with some of the points you made. But realistically, European countries are not going to line up to support Greece.

Firstly, that'll just give Turkey the green light to fully open up the borders for the refugees. Even with foreign troops deployed it'll be difficult to hold this back if Turkey's Police/Jandarma force-opens the gates. Admittedly, last time they half-assed it. This time they won't.

Europe can deploy all the naval assets it wants. But is it going to go toe-to-toe with Turkey in the designated Mavi Vatan area? I doubt it. Turkey could not only provide AA cover for almost the entire area, but also line up anti-ship and ballistic missiles across the entire coast.

To make matters much worse, Turkey has one of the largest drone fleets in the world. They can monitor the seas non-stop, and soon they'll be armed with anti-ship missiles. Yes, loitering ship-hunters. This can free up Turkey's F-16s strictly for air-to-air combat.


I understand that France's capabilities are among the best in the world. However so are Turkey's. Both countries have their advantages.

But France cannot take on Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean and the rest of Europe can only offer token assistance.

Turkey has proven time after time that it is willing and able to win battles no matter the cost. I doubt France really wants to lose troops, jets or even ships for little gain.

I'd say that France really just wants to sell some equipment to Greece and maybe take some of those natural resources. Also, prove to the rest of Europe that they are in control. That's about it.

 

[Sinan]

Erdogan is actually testing the Europeans,he thinks they will not make any move,in great part thanks to the Germans who do everything to avoid any escalation.

Nobody knows how far France and Macron are willing to go,but there will be no backtracking now,France's credibility towards our Greek and Cypriot allies (who put lot of faith in France) is at stake here. So we are witnessing a reinforcement of the French military presence in the region.

The real question is how far Erdogan is willing to go ? Putting Nationalistic and sensationalist speeches for internal consumption aside ?

This is not about Erdogan or Europe. I mean, almost no one in Turkey sees it this way. Even not the hardest ex-Genenrals.

Everybody sees these latest developments as Imperialists trying to contain Turkey in it's lands,try to steal Turkey's seas from Turkey. Second Sevres. Turkey at this point really not shying away from actual war. This is not my words or my interpretation.

 

[Sinan]

I agree with some of the points you made. But realistically, European countries are not going to line up to support Greece.

Firstly, that'll just give Turkey the green light to fully open up the borders for the refugees. Even with foreign troops deployed it'll be difficult to hold this back if Turkey's Police/Jandarma force-opens the gates. Admittedly, last time they half-assed it. This time they won't.

Europe can deploy all the naval assets it wants. But is it going to go toe-to-toe with Turkey in the designated Mavi Vatan area? I doubt it. Turkey could not only provide AA cover for almost the entire area, but also line up anti-ship and ballistic missiles across the entire coast.

To make matters much worse, Turkey has one of the largest drone fleets in the world. They can monitor the seas non-stop, and soon they'll be armed with anti-ship missiles. Yes, loitering ship-hunters. This can free up Turkey's F-16s strictly for air-to-air combat.


I understand that France's capabilities are among the best in the world. However so are Turkey's. Both countries have their advantages.

But France cannot take on Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean and the rest of Europe can only offer token assistance.

Turkey has proven time after time that it is willing and able to win battles no matter the cost. I doubt France really wants to lose troops, jets or even ships for little gain.

I'd say that France really just wants to sell some equipment to Greece and maybe take some of those natural resources. Also, prove to the rest of Europe that they are in control. That's about it.

France has no rights or territory in Eastern Mediterranean. I highly doubt that any nation would be willing to spill their blood and iron for Greece in exchange for nothing.

 

[Costin84]

Let's put that to a test then.

Hopefully not.....but, go ahead, knock yourself out

 

[Turko]

Ahh Ottoman Empire did you really have to be kind and civilized to greeks. If our ancestors had deported those greeks from islands today those islands belonged to Turkish republic. Useless merciness of Ottoman Empire inherited us Today's problems.

 

[Costin84]

If a full scale war breaks out,if Greek armed forces are in a bad position and request French military assistance,we would have no other choice than to step in,even if with the prospect of French casualties. The entire French political class as well as the public opinion being so anti-Turkey would support any military interventionism to help Greece. Other European countries would also have no other choice but to military assist Greece.

Actually,Erdogan has made so much enemies in the region that a war would be the right occasion for any country to "settle" their feud with Turkey. Greece does have many allies,Turkey doesn't.

I don't expect any full scale war anytime soon at least,skirmishes are very likely though before both sides are pressured to "restraint".

With the risk of having insults piled on me, irelevant country and what not, it's the first time I've heard Romanian politicians talking openly about an external affair.....they're usually # people must come together, international law, yadda yadda yadda #.....this time...."we're backing Greece against this aggression "....and these guys are Erdogan s buddies...

 

[Vergennes]

Time will tell I guess.

 

[Turko]

Hopefully not.....but, go ahead, knock yourself out

Turkish and Russian states are renowned for Sacrificing soldiers .
Neither knocking nor killing has stopped our nation. I am not showing off my nation but there are millions are ready to die , in Turkey.
So the EU should find another way to stop Turkey.

 

[Costin84]

I agree with some of the points you made. But realistically, European countries are not going to line up to support Greece.

Firstly, that'll just give Turkey the green light to fully open up the borders for the refugees. Even with foreign troops deployed it'll be difficult to hold this back if Turkey's Police/Jandarma force-opens the gates. Admittedly, last time they half-assed it. This time they won't.

Europe can deploy all the naval assets it wants. But is it going to go toe-to-toe with Turkey in the designated Mavi Vatan area? I doubt it. Turkey could not only provide AA cover for almost the entire area, but also line up anti-ship and ballistic missiles across the entire coast.

To make matters much worse, Turkey has one of the largest drone fleets in the world. They can monitor the seas non-stop, and soon they'll be armed with anti-ship missiles. Yes, loitering ship-hunters. This can free up Turkey's F-16s strictly for air-to-air combat.


I understand that France's capabilities are among the best in the world. However so are Turkey's. Both countries have their advantages.

But France cannot take on Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean and the rest of Europe can only offer token assistance.

Turkey has proven time after time that it is willing and able to win battles no matter the cost. I doubt France really wants to lose troops, jets or even ships for little gain.

I'd say that France really just wants to sell some equipment to Greece and maybe take some of those natural resources. Also, prove to the rest of Europe that they are in control. That's about it.

Token assistance? Only the Spanish frigates have more AA firepower than all the Turkish fleet....likewise for the Dutch....the Italians are in another league....I'm not counting all the Eurofighters, Rafales, F18s and what not....

 

[TR_123456]

With the risk of having insults piled on me, irelevant country and what not, it's the first time I've heard Romanian politicians talking openly about an external affair.....they're usually # people must come together, international law, yadda yadda yadda #.....this time...."we're backing Greece against this aggression "....and these guys are Erdogan s buddies...

Wow,unexpected from Romania.

 

[Costin84]

Turkish and Russian states are renowned for Sacrificing soldiers .
Neither knocking nor killing has stopped our nation. I am not showing off my nation but there are millions are ready to die , in Turkey.
So the EU should find another way to stop Turkey.

We'll see....this is high stake poker being played out....I personally hope that after everyone bluffs we'll be back to normal ...I don't see a war happening over this and I want to be right

 

[Costin84]

Wow,unexpected from Romania.

Because there was no trouble with Turkey, on the contrary and because they don't usually have opinions, they go with the flow. I was very surprised

 

[Turko]

We'll see....this is high stake poker being played out....I personally hope that after everyone bluffs we'll be back to normal ...I don't see a war happening over this and I want to be right

I'd say we are( turks)united as hell about this situation. You know about me bro . Even if i support stance of current government, the entire nation will burn the west asia.
Remember Cyprus in74.

 

[TR_123456]

Because there was no trouble with Turkey, on the contrary and because they don't usually have opinions, they go with the flow. I was very surprised

Im guessing Macrons group promissed them something in return.

 

[Costin84]

Because there was no trouble with Turkey, on the contrary and because they don't usually have opinions, they go with the flow. I was very surprised

That means they were pushed to issue these statements and only 3 countries have that weight around here.....US first than Germany and France