TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Afif]

-Will be great to attach this Akkor In helicopters and Aircrafts .
I know Akkor itself can demage the aircraft when blow up but better than direct hit from SAMs .

Does not sound very realistic.

 

[bisbis]

-Will be great to attach this Akkor In helicopters and Aircrafts .
I know Akkor itself can demage the aircraft when blow up but better than direct hit from SAMs .

In the use of incandescent on a helicopter, the chance of collateral damage is reduced by programming the anti-glow ammunition to intercept further away from the launch vehicle.

After all, the helicopter aircraft, flying mostly off-road, will have a lot of space around it for interception.

Also, helis mostly fly in the arm. this will require a separate usage mode program.

 

[Agha Sher]

The concept of APS on airborne platforms does not work. Close proximity interceptions of incoming munitions will not save the aircraft. You would need to do the interception at a considerable distance. Now, for airborne platforms, incoming munitions often travel significantly faster hence making them harder to intercept. Also, incoming munitions can often drastically change their path before attacking an aircraft, hence, your interceptor APS would have to have some sort of guidance.

All in all, you're not developing an APS for aircrafts anymore but a guided missile that need to shoot down incoming missiles.

 

[Baris]

March - April will be tank months for Turkey.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619319236584947718

 

[Chocopie]

I'm not the expert on this subject. It is my understanding with limited technical capability there is literally 0 difference between a horizontal, top or in between attack. The trajectory of the missile is in all 3 forms quite close to each other, radar detects it nearly 50 meters away and intercepts at 10-30meters. At this point the missile is not on top of the armed vehicle. It is just at a little higher altitude, it doesnt do the diving move at this point.
As you can see here. The the point of detection and shooting to hard kill is in ms.

Radware Bot Manager Captcha

iopscience.iop.org

Other than that it is not really me claiming, i have seen quite a lot of articles claiming it counters all ATGMs in fact non of them mention top attack as a technical challenge, also a lot of them mentioning specifically 360 degrees.It is mostly about APFSDSs being hard to counter.

IAV 2021: Rafael details challenges of defeating APFSDS long rod penetrators with APS

by Jon Hawkes Defeating advanced anti-armour rounds with active protection systems (APSs) would mark a step change in vehicle defences, but such technology must still overcome notable hurdles. Rafae…

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

When it comes to combat proven as in actual combat i dont think it is that possible in the near future most top attack atgms being western made dont think hezbullah or hamas getting one, well who knows.

I could be wrong tho, maybe someone that has expertise on this enlighten me.

As far as I know, Trophy is only proven against Russian Metis and Kornet and not top-attack ATGMs like Javelin or Spike

Although their systems are mostly top-notch, Israelis tend to exaggerate a lot in their marketing department.

 

[Nutuk]

Looking from another perspective how do you guys look at upgrading the M60? I am not even speaking about the dumb item of looking for 1200hp engines from England.

Take the M60 which is how many years old, 40, 50? How much sense does it make to turn this old tank into this?:

It will still be an old tank in a new jacket with a new heart (1200hp engine)

Why not go for a brandnew one, be it based on FNSS Kaplan or Otokar Tulpar

I mean how many more years do we want to use a 50 year old tank, till they become 100?

 

[Heartbang]

Although their systems are mostly top-notch, Israelis tend to exaggerate a lot in their marketing department.

They sure do. I believe an Israeli forum member here once said the radar coverage of current Trophy APS isn't sufficient enough to scan above the tank and therefore its vulnerable to top-attack munitions. Could be @500

 

[Cypro]

Looking from another perspective how do you guys look at upgrading the M60? I am not even speaking about the dumb item of looking for 1200hp engines from England.

Take the M60 which is how many years old, 40, 50? How much sense does it make to turn this old tank into this?:

It will still be an old tank in a new jacket with a new heart (1200hp engine)

Why not go for a brandnew one, be it based on FNSS Kaplan or Otokar Tulpar

I mean how many more years do we want to use a 50 year old tank, till they become 100?

Simple reason; cheaper, faster and relatively effective solution. M60TM Sabras are the answer you are looking. Producing new hull costs both money and time. And additionally, new tanks also be produced, these will be just supporting role / additional firepower.

 

[Hasanrize]

Looking from another perspective how do you guys look at upgrading the M60? I am not even speaking about the dumb item of looking for 1200hp engines from England.

Take the M60 which is how many years old, 40, 50? How much sense does it make to turn this old tank into this?:

It will still be an old tank in a new jacket with a new heart (1200hp engine)

Why not go for a brandnew one, be it based on FNSS Kaplan or Otokar Tulpar

I mean how many more years do we want to use a 50 year old tank, till they become 100?

Unlike HvKK or DKK, KKK is extremely conservative. They will not get Kaplan because it is a medium tank.

 

[Ryder]

M60 sabras even performed better than the Leopard 2A4s.

 

[Huelague]

The Ukrainian general said in the past that what stopped him conducting more strikes against Russian positions was a lack of tanks. Unless you are changing the style of war completely i don't see anything better then a tank at conducting quick strikes to take a position. Naturally since these weapons are at the forefront of any offensive ground operations many are going to get smoked.

If you control the skies everything on the ground is vulnerable, not just tanks. I think active protection measures that can also defend against UAV strikes could bring back the primacy of the tank in ground operations.

But as we things like drones becoming more prevalent, the aim for any serious army should be to dominate the skies. Once you control the skies it doesn't really matter what's on the ground.

Tanks play a critical role in the Ukrainian/Russian war because neither side has been able to dominate the skies.

Afghans proof otherwise.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There are two different tanks in western armed forces:
1. Tanks with rifled guns, whose main purpose is to give support to infantry and to spearhead surgical strikes in to enemy positions with HE and HEP rounds. For these tanks to knock out an enemy tank with a sabot round is secondary; Their Primary goal is to support the infantry.
2. Tanks that are built like castles that can withstand sabot rounds and have smooth bore guns to use sabot rounds. These tanks need Infantry to support them. Their main goal is to knock out another tank.

Rifled guns give more stability and accuracy to the rounds. It also increases the round’s overall range with respect to accurately hitting the target.
Non-Rifled guns , aka smooth bore guns are ideal for sabot rounds as these guns’ barrels don’t have much friction, the rounds are fired with higher muzzle velocities since more explosives can be used to propel the round. But the omission of rotation in the absence of rifling, lowers the overall accurate range and accuracy of the round in general.

How much more a modern time battlefield will yet see tank to tank battles, is a question that needs to be asked.
In view of that; lighter, faster and more agile, also more accurate tanks that support infantry and light armoured columns, will probably be needed more in the days and years to come than today’s heavy tanks.

 

[TheInsider]

TAF plans to upgrade around 600 M60A3 tanks. 600 is not a definite number TAF might settle for a lower amount.
170 M-60TM
600 M-60 TIYK
280 Leo2A4 TIYK

1050 modern tanks and probably 250 Altays will be the armored might of land forces.

The upgrade decision came after the evaluation of the Ukraine-Russia war.

 

[boredaf]

The upgrade decision came after the evaluation of the Ukraine-Russia war.

I expect a lot of decisions will be made because of this war, and not just by our military. This is the first modern war between almost peer level militaries where both sides failed to gain air superiority and the war turned into a prolonged brawl.

 

[Tonyukuk]

T72s in the Turkic World:

Azerbaijan: 572 ~
Kazakhstan: 300
Kyrgzstan: 215
Turkmenistan: 670
Uzbekistan: 70

The upgrade package for the T72 and M60 will surely get installed a vast number of tanks.

It would be cool to see Azerbaijani T72s and Turkish M60s side by side in a future military exercise with the same turret upgrade package.

 

[dBSPL]

T72s in the Turkic World:

Azerbaijan: 572 ~
Kazakhstan: 300
Kyrgzstan: 215
Turkmenistan: 670
Uzbekistan: 70

The upgrade package for the T72 and M60 will surely get installed a vast number of tanks.

It would be cool to see Azerbaijani T72s and Turkish M60s side by side in a future military exercise with the same turret upgrade package.

In the first stage, the aim is to increase the integration of the Azerbaijan and Turkiye land armies at the unit level to the where joint operations can be conducted. One of the most critical steps here is to ensure critical command and control coordination, such as a digital integrated communications network, as well as a common logistics structure for armored units where possible.

With the help of our growing industrial capabilities, we need to start discussing the concept of 'two states, one army' in more depth.

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619250285205131268

With the aquiring of LR 30mm I would be more interested in it being integrated as a RWS on Altay already with T1/T2. Outright of putting a laser on the tank (hopefully in the future) against Drones this might be the best solution.

I don't know how smart it is to try and use your APS against drones when they are not reloadable from within the tank.

 

[Khagan1923]

Looking from another perspective how do you guys look at upgrading the M60? I am not even speaking about the dumb item of looking for 1200hp engines from England.

Take the M60 which is how many years old, 40, 50? How much sense does it make to turn this old tank into this?:

It will still be an old tank in a new jacket with a new heart (1200hp engine)

Why not go for a brandnew one, be it based on FNSS Kaplan or Otokar Tulpar

I mean how many more years do we want to use a 50 year old tank, till they become 100?

It is more about price to performance. You will pay more for each Kaplan or Tulpar for not really more performance.

Most likely a re-engine and re-turreting(?) of M60A3s on hand which the Land Forces is already knowledgeable about is cheaper as well as faster.

We are a big country bordering several unstable and hostile countries. For the majority of those countries an upgraded M60 will be enough. A cheap solution that lets you keep your more advanced tanks (L2A4TR) for more advanced and "dangerous" neighbors until Altay is produced in satisfying numbers in the expected configuration (T2/T3)

Also a lot of countries still use the M60, this upgrade package could be interesting to them which would mean a nice cash flow. Good possibility that the upgrades will pay for themselves with exports.

As long as we dont see a package for our M48 I'm fine.

 

[Era_shield]

With the aquiring of LR 30mm I would be more interested in it being integrated as a RWS on Altay already with T1/T2. Outright of putting a laser on the tank (hopefully in the future) against Drones this might be the best solution.

I don't know how smart it is to try and use your APS against drones when they are not reloadable from within the tank.

I doubt they would be using the Akkor effectors against drones - they don't have the range for that. What they would be doing is using the radars to detect and track the drones and automatically shooting at them with the commander's .50 cal.

 

[Agha Sher]

I doubt they would be using the Akkor effectors against drones - they don't have the range for that. What they would be doing is using the radars to detect and track the drones and automatically shooting at them with the commander's .50 cal.

I don't think that was the point. I think they meant against suicide drones.