Greece Analysis Greece eyeing boost with F-35, Rafale aircraft

[Test7]

The Defense Ministry is moving ahead with the reinforcement of the Hellenic Air Force with French-made Rafale and US F-35 fighter jets as well as unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and drone response systems, possibly within 2021.

At the same time, the maintenance and upgrading of existing systems is progressing rapidly, which will ease the burden of maintaining balance in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean vis-à-vis Turkey.

The ultimate aim is the creation of the conditions for the transformation of the HAF into a force that, in addition to the proven value of its human resources, will be able to support a significant range of operations throughout the Eastern Mediterranean.

If this planning goes ahead, then the balance between the HAF and the Turkish Air Force will shift in a relatively short time.

On a practical level, the HAF will have access to equipment and technologies from three different countries, the United States, France and Israel.

According to sources familiar with the matter, Defense Minister Nikos Panagiotopoulos already has a proposal ready for the US for the acquisition of six fifth-generation F-35 fighters, with few flight hours, which could even be delivered to Greece within 2021.

Athens will implement the plan to acquire 18 more new aircraft of this type in due course, so that the HAF will end up with a total of 24 F-35s.

As for the supply of the French Rafale jets, the issue is expected to come to the Parliament in December. Meanwhile, the first six used aircraft are expected within the first half of 2021.

At the same time, the 114th Battle Wing in Tanagra, also known as the “nest” of the Mirage 2000, is constantly being upgraded with the number of French fighter jets growing rapidly.

Greece eyeing boost with F-35, Rafale aircraft | eKathimerini.com

The Defense Ministry is moving ahead with the reinforcement of the Hellenic Air Force with French-made Rafale and US F-35 fighter jets as well as unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and drone response systems, possibly within 2021.

www.ekathimerini.com

 

[Reviewbrah]

When will Turkey get paid for selling weapons to Greece and Egypt

 

[Deliorman]

So Greece is getting Rafales, upgrading it’s F-16s to Viper level and also getting F-35s.

In a few years they would have an air force that is on an absolutely higher lever than TuAF. Unfortunately Turkey can’t do anything to even try to match their upgrades and acquisitions.

The only way now is to just go Iran’s way and develop and produce as many missiles and rockets as possible, with as big of a range and as destructive as possible. Even if we don’t have the planes to match them in the air we should have enough missiles to overwhelm their air defenses and destroy their bases and infrastructure preemptively.

 

[Zafer]

Guess who will shoot down the first F35.

 

[adenl]

So Greece is getting Rafales, upgrading it’s F-16s to Viper level and also getting F-35s.

In a few years they would have an air force that is on an absolutely higher lever than TuAF. Unfortunately Turkey can’t do anything to even try to match their upgrades and acquisitions.

The only way now is to just go Iran’s way and develop and produce as many missiles and rockets as possible, with as big of a range and as destructive as possible. Even if we don’t have the planes to match them in the air we should have enough missiles to overwhelm their air defenses and destroy their bases and infrastructure preemptively.

A couple years ago Turkey announced they had 50 'systems' of Bora missiles. If 1 system is a battery of 3 launchers, then it can fire 50*3*2=300 Bora's in one salvo. Enough to destroy the entire Greek fighter fleet on the ground and then more. No need for SOM.

I'm sure Turkey has longer range BM in the arsenal, not yet publicly unveiled.

 

[Zafer]

A couple years ago Turkey announced they had 50 'systems' of Bora missiles. If 1 system is a battery of 3 launchers, then it can fire 50*3*2=300 Bora's in one salvo. Enough to destroy the entire Greek fighter fleet on the ground and then more. No need for SOM.

I'm sure Turkey has longer range BM in the arsenal, not yet publicly unveiled.

That would be one down 6 to go.

 

[Costin84]

When you hear people talking about Ballistic missiles as an answer to a proper AF,you know that you're in a Iranian style comedy, which I see getting very popular through the ME...

 

[Cabatli_TR]

When you hear people talking about Ballistic missiles as an answer to a proper AF,you know that you're in a Iranian style comedy, which I see getting very popular through the ME...

18 March 2023 - Roll out ceremony of first prototype of 5th generation stealth Turkish fighter

February 2022 - First flight of Hürjet 4+ generation light fighter, August 2022 First flight of second Hürjet prototype (schedule delayed around 3 months)

Mid 2023 - First flight of unmanned stealth fighter jet called MIUS

2021 - Göksungur supersonic drone roll-out and delivery of Akinci turboprop drones

2022/2023 - Delivery of 4 Air-SOJ stand off jammer aircrafts and 1 Multi-Int special operation aircraft

2021/2022 - F-16TM Özgür upgrared with Aselsan AESA, EW sensors and mission computers/avionics.


Ballistic, Cruise, Sub and Supersonic missiles will be bonus for any nation who wants to deal with them.

 

[Costin84]

18 March 2023 - Roll out ceremony of first prototype of 5th generation stealth Turkish fighter

February 2022 - First flight of Hürjet 4+ generation light fighter, August 2022 First flight of second Hürjet prototype

Mid 2023 - First flight of unmanned stealth fighter jet called MIUS

2021 - Göksungur supersonic drone roll-out and delivery of Akinci turboprop drones

2022/2023 - Delivery of 4 Air-SOJ stand off jammer aircrafts and 1 Multi-Int special operation aircraft

2021/2022 - F-16TM Özgür upgrared with Aselsan AESA, EW sensors and mission computers/avionics.


Ballistic, Cruise and Supersonic missiles will be bonus for any nation who wants to deal with them.

I was just talking about the ballistic missiles taking out the HA on the ground. We saw a full US attack that couldn't take 1 Syrian base out of commission, relying on these things is very superficial and naive.
Yes, maybe a Turkish AESA will be ready by 2022 but saying it would be better than the Lockeed Martin variant is wishful thinking and, besides, it will take more years to connect it to the F16s.
The Hurjet, no matter how you spin it is a light attack/trainer, not a 4+ gen fighter jet and even that will take time...
Turkish 5th gen is dead in the craddle the first moment a missile hits anything under a Greek flag as no one in the Western world will work in the military field with Turkey after that.
You are talking about projects, Greece is buying real force multipliers.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I was just talking about the ballistic missiles taking out the HA on the ground. We saw a full US attack that couldn't take 1 Syrian base out of commission, relying on these things is very superficial and naive.
Yes, maybe a Turkish AESA will be ready by 2022 but saying it would be better than the Lockeed Martin variant is wishful thinking and, besides, it will take more years to connect it to the F16s.
The Hurjet, no matter how you spin it is a light attack/trainer, not a 4+ gen fighter jet and even that will take time...
Turkish 5th gen is dead in the craddle the first moment a missile hits anything under a Greek flag as no one in the Western world will work in the military field with Turkey after that.
You are talking about projects, Greece is buying real force multipliers.

I am talking about some solid and game changer projects and their times of delivery/first flight. You asked Turkish response to greek procurements different than Ballistic missiles and I gave the items but You are listing your assumptions and wishful thinkings this time. I won’t discuss the quality matters of Turkish products. I just advice you to check the battlefield where Turkish weapons joined but One thing that I have to underline. If 20-30 second-hand jet will make a country force multiplier, then Turkey will be a global power thanks to the projects listed above.

 

[Zafer]

Greeks will only get in trouble having big boy toys.

 

[Test7]

I was just talking about the ballistic missiles taking out the HA on the ground. We saw a full US attack that couldn't take 1 Syrian base out of commission, relying on these things is very superficial and naive.
Yes, maybe a Turkish AESA will be ready by 2022 but saying it would be better than the Lockeed Martin variant is wishful thinking and, besides, it will take more years to connect it to the F16s.
The Hurjet, no matter how you spin it is a light attack/trainer, not a 4+ gen fighter jet and even that will take time...
Turkish 5th gen is dead in the craddle the first moment a missile hits anything under a Greek flag as no one in the Western world will work in the military field with Turkey after that.
You are talking about projects, Greece is buying real force multipliers.

You are wrong, real force multiplier is military production and industry, not purchase. You are as strong as you produce, not as much as you buy. According to this opinion, Saudi Arabia have more real force multipliers than France, UK, or Russia?

 

[Costin84]

You are wrong, real force multiplier is military production and industry, not purchase. You are as strong as you produce, not as much as you buy. According to this opinion, Saudi Arabia have more real force multipliers than France, UK, or Russia?

View attachment 6556

Modern warfare is about modern hardware to and I think that you'll agree with me that Saudi Arabia s problem is the quality of their manpower not of their hardware. The Greeks may be a lot of things, incompetent like the Saudis when it comes to military matters they are not.
18 Rafales, 24 F35s and 84 F16V's go a long way in capable hands.

 

[Test7]

Modern warfare is about modern hardware to and I think that you'll agree with me that Saudi Arabia s problem is the quality of their manpower not of their hardware. The Greeks may be a lot of things, incompetent like the Saudis when it comes to military matters they are not.
18 Rafales, 24 F35s and 84 F16V's in capable hands go a long way in capable hands.

Absolutely, no doubt about this but this is not sufficient and sustainable. Especially for taxpayers with a population of 10 millions

 

[adenl]

I was just talking about the ballistic missiles taking out the HA on the ground. We saw a full US attack that couldn't take 1 Syrian base out of commission, relying on these things is very superficial and naive.
Yes, maybe a Turkish AESA will be ready by 2022 but saying it would be better than the Lockeed Martin variant is wishful thinking and, besides, it will take more years to connect it to the F16s.
The Hurjet, no matter how you spin it is a light attack/trainer, not a 4+ gen fighter jet and even that will take time...
Turkish 5th gen is dead in the craddle the first moment a missile hits anything under a Greek flag as no one in the Western world will work in the military field with Turkey after that.
You are talking about projects, Greece is buying real force multipliers.

Are you really going to equate pin-point strikes on fighters to taking a whole airbase out of operation?

 

[Costin84]

Absolutely, no doubt about this but this is not sufficient and sustainable. Especially for taxpayers with a population of 10 million.

Unfortunately for the Greeks, it's a little bit to late now.Not to say that they're totally incompetent as they have a few local programs, building/assembling their ships in their shipyards, assembling their LEO2A6,involvement in some European programs....not comparable to Turkey, true but it's a little bit late now, they need hardware, new hardware fast as Turkey is applying pressure.Dont forget that Greece is on the defence, they don't need to outnumber Turkey, they need enough for a deterrent

 

[Costin84]

Are you really going to equate pin-point strikes on fighters to taking a whole airbase out of operation?

Can you show when a whole airbase with fighters was totally destroyed by surface to surface missiles in the last 30 years, incapacitating a decent AF? That's just Iranian chest thumping....If that would be the case Russia would reign supreme....missiles everywhere..

 

[Oublious]

Can you show when a whole airbase with fighters was totally destroyed by surface to surface missiles in the last 30 years, incapacitating a decent AF? That's just Iranian chest thumping....If that would be the case Russia would reign supreme....missiles everywhere..

Trump did shot a whole airbase with cruise missiles, wher did you lived at that time?

 

[Costin84]

Trump did shot a whole airbase with cruise missiles, wher did you lived at that time?

With minimal effect....

 

[adenl]

Can you show when a whole airbase with fighters was totally destroyed by surface to surface missiles in the last 30 years, incapacitating a decent AF? That's just Iranian chest thumping....If that would be the case Russia would reign supreme....missiles everywhere..

You don't need to destroy an entire airbase. You can just deny them operation by cratering the runways and taxi-ways first and then target the aircraft (shelters) individually. That is entirely in the realm of possibilities of today's technology. The Chinese have converted their dumb artillery rockets to 300-400 km ranged pin-point strike weapons. Something that was unimaginable 30 years ago and impossible 10 years ago.

The Iranians have proven their accuracy both in tests, exercises and IRL operations. Taking Russia as an example is bad because of the INF treaty that prevented them from producing BM and SSM with a range of 500-5500km. You should take the Chinese as an example of what conventional BM and SSM can do.

The INF treaty has prevented Russia and the US from developing BM and continued their reliance on conventional airpower. But now that it has been scrapped, the race is on with the US developing conventional BM again.