Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Umigami]

Is it worse than our Leo 2Ri?

Is our Leo 2RI bad?

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669360854641278978

Hmm, interesting...

 

[Lordimperator]

Is our Leo 2RI bad?

I dunno about that, the Hartam has better optical than 2a4 right?

 

[Umigami]

I am much more worry we would end up with 200 Ariette someday

Jangan lah!
Kalau Italia sebagai produsen dan pemakai satu satunya aja udah gak palai lagi, sparepart dapat dari mana?

 

[Madokafc]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669360854641278978

Hmm, interesting...

The other ones i am suspected maybe Latin American countries

 

[Lordimperator]

Jangan lah!
Kalau Italia sebagai produsen dan pemakai satu satunya aja udah gak palai lagi, sparepart dapat dari mana?

Sparepart dari vespa....

 

[Umigami]

or MICA

Isn't Mica not as good as AMRAAM?

 

[Parry Brima]

A little bit Apache missiles

Source cited from:
Kiziah, Rex. (2000). Assessment of the Emerging Biocruise Threat. 76.

Apache has more than 300 km range???

Surely there's no doubt now that we can airstrike those bases on Spratly Islands using this.

 

[Nilgiri]

It is the prelude of some great civil war or great witch hunting? We all know conservatism among Christian countries can be erupted into something radicals form and their ideas of struggle is much more bloody and radicals when thing must be put into action when necessary. As we know some Islamic civil war rarely got much bloodier than what happened in Western countries (just like Sunni and Shias schism is way more mild compared to bloody struggle between Chatolic church and Protestan which usually wiped out population of each other Cities and left them in ruins for hundred years), there is also cases of World War II, when some racialist radicals like Goebbels and Hitler literally using science to kill Millions of people in gas Chamber.


Looking at those Libtard/Lefties radicals from western countries i suddenly realized Taliban is way Ioking more cute (not i condoned their some savage behavior and harsh intrepretation of Islamic conduct/Fiqih) but at least Taliban doesnt trying to destroying the basic rights of humanity to reproduce and rather even trying to promote family as basic institution and protect them. Among ASEAN countries i looking warily against open attitude behavior of Thailand recently. Some sinosphere countries is doing okay, Islamic majorities countries like Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei is also doing very okay in this regard, then Philippines they are also quite conservative as the church is still hold significant influence there.

I don't think there will be a civil war per se, there are lot of things going on behind the scenes to effect a civil separation so to speak to a new equilibrium consensus to co-exist without imposing collectivism of just one on the other.

Liberals (specifically social liberals) have got it in their heads they can push for extreme hyper individual freedoms while socialising the costs on the whole nation.

i.e no one taught them how this is to be demonstrated and proven within the family +sociocultural community unit first (which has provided it so long)...before you try exert anything to something bigger to convince others. i.e rational evidence of your model....rather than narcissist driven garbage.

Its spoiled brat complex in the end and thus political powers (big govt, big corporate, big media ) grow and use them for their own greedy selfish designs as well....and why these are lockstep in with the growing debt crisis (i.e spend and promise things you have not provisioned for).

So going forward its all about making only them bear their own costs....and they can see how things rise or fall just for themselves.....

i.e there is no reason to spread this to us (social conservatives and allies) when we dont want to experiment for utopia BS.

We honour gratitude for what made us what we are, we are open to discuss imperfections in human reality (past and present) but not with narcissist ingrates....much less their actions to shove it on us past discussion.

The ones that go for virtue signalling (in their emotional immediate need) instead of actual proven virtue (a course of actions , a long path)..... i.e basic difference between extreme epicurean and staunch stoic. It is deepest stuff in the psyche.

There is clear good and bad here in the end. It cannot really be put into words.

Ingrates are free to live by their ingrate ways and find the ingrate costs at the end, not try push those to us or especially our kids.

Anyway these are kind of based Muslim folks I have worked with all my life and am always happy to make friends with them where possible, because they fundamentally get these things:

Just watch especially from 14.30 to 22 minute mark. Also the guy's concluding remarks at 4h 30 minute mark:

Hamtramck, Michigan, a two-square-mile city outside of Detroit, voted unanimously Wednesday to ban LGBTQ flags from city properties, adding to more than two dozen municipalities and school districts across the country that have passed similar restrictions, following a tense and often fiery City Council meeting.

This is deep democrat territory. This is the social conservatism of minorities I was speaking of earlier that will upset things greatly if they keep pushing the alphabet mental illness crap at top of their "intersectional alliance hierarchy".

Anyway my homie @Ryder will probably enjoy reading all of this conversation path using the quote arrows....and may also learn a thing or two for debate he engages in places going forward.

 

[Ryder]

I don't think there will be a civil war per se, there are lot of things going on behind the scenes to effect a civil separation so to speak to a new equilibrium consensus to co-exist without imposing collectivism of just one on the other.

Liberals (specifically social liberals) have got it in their heads they can push for extreme hyper individual freedoms while socialising the costs on the whole nation.

i.e no one taught them how this is to be demonstrated and proven within the family +sociocultural community unit first (which has provided it so long)...before you try exert anything to something bigger to convince others. i.e rational evidence of your model....rather than narcissist driven garbage.

Its spoiled brat complex in the end and thus political powers (big govt, big corporate, big media ) grow and use them for their own greedy selfish designs as well....and why these are lockstep in with the growing debt crisis (i.e spend and promise things you have not provisioned for).

So going forward its all about making only them bear their own costs....and they can see how things rise or fall just for themselves.....

i.e there is no reason to spread this to us (social conservatives and allies) when we dont want to experiment for utopia BS.

We honour gratitude for what made us what we are, we are open to discuss imperfections in human reality (past and present) but not with narcissist ingrates....much less their actions to shove it on us past discussion.

The ones that go for virtue signalling (in their emotional immediate need) instead of actual proven virtue (a course of actions , a long path)..... i.e basic difference between extreme epicurean and staunch stoic. It is deepest stuff in the psyche.

There is clear good and bad here in the end. It cannot really be put into words.

Ingrates are free to live by their ingrate ways and find the ingrate costs at the end, not try push those to us or especially our kids.

Anyway these are kind of based Muslim folks I have worked with all my life and am always happy to make friends with them where possible, because they fundamentally get these things:

Just watch especially from 14.30 to 22 minute mark. Also the guy's concluding remarks at 4h 30 minute mark:

This is deep democrat territory. This is the social conservatism of minorities I was speaking of earlier that will upset things greatly if they keep pushing the alphabet mental illness crap at top of their "intersectional alliance hierarchy".

Anyway my homie @Ryder will probably enjoy reading all of this conversation path using the quote arrows....and may also learn a thing or two for debate he engages in places going forward.

Lots of cultures actually value family.

Family in a lot cultures and religions is seen as sacred.

The problem now is as the Western World has foregone this sacred tradition the cancer is spreading worldwide even now gender roles are being destroyed.

All of our parents expect us regardless how old we get is to be married and have grand children.

Gays and lesbians cant breed. Adoption or using surrogates does not count.

Western world is pushing how kids dont mind gay parents while in reality they want to have a mother and a father.

So many kids who actually say I wish I had a mother the other will say I wish I had a father.

Doesnt matter if gay parents have a mother and a father role none can actually fit that.

Female= Mother

Male= Father

 

[Ryder]

I went to the Forumla 1 grand prix in Australia.

Guess what they had drag queens.

Yes fking drag queens in a motor race. Thats how bad it has become that they shove this lbgt crap everywhere in events that has nothing to do with them.

 

[Lordimperator]

Kak Lord and Agost, can you elaborate your cocoklogi logic, please?

1. Why hasnt Indonesia acquired J-35 even though the red has been elected as the winner of the election and president since 2014?

2. As Mindef and Aide of president, could Kak Wowo implement the alustsista acquisition program in the last 4 years without the president's approval and budgetary support from the coalition in the DPR? Although only about 45% of the total proposed acquisition budget was approved. (Pinjaman Luar Negeri, PLN).

PS:
- Sorry, Mods, I know this is TNI AU thread. I'm just curious about cocoklogi logic.
- Miss Connie was never part of red. Before 2023, she was part of Nasdem which is also part of the presidential coalition.

Better to move the matters here in warkop.

The red in 2024 i mean the madam red.
1. In 2014 j35 wasnt available yet.
2. I couldnt answer, i lack the resource to do so, for today.

Many times Madam Connie advocating eastern block armamments when in Nasdem till now. Look the way she glued herself with Madam Mega on the serveral occasions.

 

[Umigami]

Kak Lord and Agost, can you elaborate your cocoklogi logic, please?

1. Why hasnt Indonesia acquired J-35 even though the red has been elected as the winner of the election and president since 2014?

2. As Mindef and Aide of president, could Kak Wowo implement the alustsista acquisition program in the last 4 years without the president's approval and budgetary support from the coalition in the DPR? Although only about 45% of the total proposed acquisition budget was approved. (Pinjaman Luar Negeri, PLN).

PS:
- Sorry, Mods, I know this is TNI AU thread. I'm just curious about cocoklogi logic.
- Miss Connie was never part of red. Before 2023, she was part of Nasdem which is also part of the presidential coalition.

Gak terlalu berhubungan sama AU. Pindah disini aja.

1. Karena RI1 yg sekarang masih punya kekuatan politik buat gak selalu nurut sama emak.
The next one from the red?
Naaah... he's just a yes man.

 

[Qimpetmleteque]

Better to move the matters here in warkop.

The red in 2024 i mean the madam red.
1. In 2014 j35 wasnt available yet.
2. I couldnt answer, i lack the resource to do so, for today.

Many times Madam Connie advocating eastern block armamments when in Nasdem till now. Look the way she glued herself with Madam Mega on the serveral occasions.

Everyone could coincidentally be with Mak Nyak in a forum, but it would be naive to interpret it as representing Mak Nyak's views and influencing one another. In several forums related to defense attended by Mak Nyak, Andi Widjajanto (AW), the Governor of Lemhanas was also attended.

If freely 'dicocoklogikan', AW is closer and has a strategic relationship with Mak Nyak than Madam Connie:
- son of a retired army general trusted by Mak Nyak,
- so trusted and appointed by Mak Nyak to be the head of Team 11 which was specially assigned and secretly prepared Jokowi as a presidential candidate, as well as recruiting vice presidential candidates in the 2014 presidential election,
- became the secretary of the government transition team between Jokowi-JK and SBY,
- appointed by Jokowi as Secretary of Cabinet, but served for a short time and then replaced because he was always being tackled by the PDIP,
- stay loyal to Jokowi and willing to only be a special presidential staff,
- received Mak Nyak's blessing to become Governor of Lemhanas.

However, AW often 'defended' and agreed with Kak Wowo's policies as Mindef. Including the policies of acquiring alutsista in geopolitical context, not depending on one source. Even in the last case, a Governor of Lemhanas volunteered to disseminate media releases to 'neutralize' Kak Wowo's slip of the tongue.

 

[Qimpetmleteque]

Gak terlalu berhubungan sama AU. Pindah disini aja.

1. Karena RI1 yg sekarang masih punya kekuatan politik buat gak selalu nurut sama emak.
The next one from the red?
Naaah... he's just a yes man.

Personally, I disagree with many of Mak Nyak's views and policies as president from 2001-2004 and politician. But in this case, I think Kak Umi hasnt yet explored and understood Mak Nyak as:
- decision maker when she became a president and chairman of PDIP,
- when managing and listening to suggestions and organizational analysis, according to the context of the position, before Mak Nyak makes decisions.

Mak Nyak as authoritarian and anti-western? IMO, her track records and facts show otherwise.

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669568573097005056

 

[rakarakaraka]

Is our Leo 2RI bad?

Not really. From the electro-optic component our leopard is behind harimau (which IMHO is now the best), but i don't know compared to amx-13 105 (which equipped with amazon optic from indra). Passive protection is the best compared to harimau or paper thin amx-13 105. Anti armor capability is also the best compared to those 2

 

[Qimpetmleteque]

Geopolitics around Indonesia are getting more exciting.

---

US military wins 'unimpeded' access to Papua New Guinea bases

Port Moresby (AFP) – The US military can develop and operate out of bases in Papua New Guinea, according to a landmark security pact underpinning Washington's efforts to outflank China in the Pacific.

-

The full text of the deal was tabled in Papua New Guinea's parliament on Wednesday evening and obtained by AFP, shedding light on details that have been closely guarded since the pact was inked in May.

With Papua New Guinea's agreement, the United States will be able to station troops and vessels at six key ports and airports, including Lombrum Naval Base on Manus Island and facilities in the capital Port Moresby.

Washington would have "unimpeded access" to the sites to "pre-position equipment, supplies and materiel", and have "exclusive use" of some zones, where development and "construction activities" could be carried out.

The agreement opens the door to Washington establishing a new military footprint at a strategically prized deep-water port, at a time of growing rivalry with Beijing.

Perched at the southwest edge of the Pacific Ocean, Lombrum has in the past been used as a garrison for British, German, Japanese, Australian and US troops.

During World War II it was one of the largest US bases in the Pacific, with 200 ships at anchor, including six battleships and 20 aircraft carriers that were used to retake the Philippines from Japan.

China had sought its own foothold at Lombrum in recent years, before being pipped at the post by Australia and the United States, who in 2018 agreed to jointly develop the facility with Papua New Guinea.

Access for US troops to Lombrum could be used to reinforce US facilities on Guam to the north, which could be key in the event of a conflict over Taiwan.

New Great Game
Prime Minister James Marape has been forced to defend the deal against a wave of protests and criticism, with some opponents questioning whether Papua New Guinea was signing away its sovereignty.

"We have allowed our military to be eroded in the last 48 years," he told parliament on Wednesday evening.

"Sovereignty is defined by the robustness and strength of your military."

Rich in natural resources and close to key shipping routes, Papua New Guinea increasingly finds itself at the centre of a diplomatic tug-of-war between Washington and Beijing.

Former prime minister Peter O'Neill said the agreement painted a target on Papua New Guinea's back.

"America is doing it for the protection of their own national interest, we all understand the geopolitics happening within our region," he said.

US President Joe Biden had been due to visit Papua New Guinea to sign the deal, a trip that was derailed by a budget tussle in the US Congress.

Washington is trying to woo Pacific nations with an array of diplomatic and financial incentives in return for strategic support, after similar moves by Beijing.

Chinese firms have snapped up mines and ports across the Pacific, and last year inked a secretive security pact with the nearby Solomon Islands that could allow China to deploy troops to the country.

The United States fears that a Chinese military foothold in the South Pacific could outflank its facilities on Guam, and make the defence of Taiwan more complicated in the event of an invasion by mainland China. (AFP)

 

[Umigami]

Geopolitics around Indonesia are getting more exciting.

---

US military wins 'unimpeded' access to Papua New Guinea bases

Port Moresby (AFP) – The US military can develop and operate out of bases in Papua New Guinea, according to a landmark security pact underpinning Washington's efforts to outflank China in the Pacific.

-

The full text of the deal was tabled in Papua New Guinea's parliament on Wednesday evening and obtained by AFP, shedding light on details that have been closely guarded since the pact was inked in May.

With Papua New Guinea's agreement, the United States will be able to station troops and vessels at six key ports and airports, including Lombrum Naval Base on Manus Island and facilities in the capital Port Moresby.

Washington would have "unimpeded access" to the sites to "pre-position equipment, supplies and materiel", and have "exclusive use" of some zones, where development and "construction activities" could be carried out.

The agreement opens the door to Washington establishing a new military footprint at a strategically prized deep-water port, at a time of growing rivalry with Beijing.

Perched at the southwest edge of the Pacific Ocean, Lombrum has in the past been used as a garrison for British, German, Japanese, Australian and US troops.

During World War II it was one of the largest US bases in the Pacific, with 200 ships at anchor, including six battleships and 20 aircraft carriers that were used to retake the Philippines from Japan.

China had sought its own foothold at Lombrum in recent years, before being pipped at the post by Australia and the United States, who in 2018 agreed to jointly develop the facility with Papua New Guinea.

Access for US troops to Lombrum could be used to reinforce US facilities on Guam to the north, which could be key in the event of a conflict over Taiwan.

New Great Game
Prime Minister James Marape has been forced to defend the deal against a wave of protests and criticism, with some opponents questioning whether Papua New Guinea was signing away its sovereignty.

"We have allowed our military to be eroded in the last 48 years," he told parliament on Wednesday evening.

"Sovereignty is defined by the robustness and strength of your military."

Rich in natural resources and close to key shipping routes, Papua New Guinea increasingly finds itself at the centre of a diplomatic tug-of-war between Washington and Beijing.

Former prime minister Peter O'Neill said the agreement painted a target on Papua New Guinea's back.

"America is doing it for the protection of their own national interest, we all understand the geopolitics happening within our region," he said.

US President Joe Biden had been due to visit Papua New Guinea to sign the deal, a trip that was derailed by a budget tussle in the US Congress.

Washington is trying to woo Pacific nations with an array of diplomatic and financial incentives in return for strategic support, after similar moves by Beijing.

Chinese firms have snapped up mines and ports across the Pacific, and last year inked a secretive security pact with the nearby Solomon Islands that could allow China to deploy troops to the country.

The United States fears that a Chinese military foothold in the South Pacific could outflank its facilities on Guam, and make the defence of Taiwan more complicated in the event of an invasion by mainland China. (AFP)

Let's build that Jakarta-Paris axis then.
French is big player in this Pacific region too.

 

[Qimpetmleteque]

Let's build that Jakarta-Paris axis then.
French is big player in this Pacific region too.

Jika mau jail dan comel:
1. Tambah PLN untuk alutsista 2020-2024 menjadi setidaknya 60% of $US 76 miliar.
2. Akuisisi F-15EX setidaknya 3 sq dan dibagi ngepos di Magetan, Pekanbaru/Pontianak, dan Makassar.
3. Setelah Su-27/30 kelar dipermak dan dikuret, digeser dari Makassar lalu ngepos di Biak ato Saumlaki sampai pensiun,
4. Akuisisi 1 biji type 52D/55 dan ngepos di Lantamal VII Kupang ato ngeronda di ALKI III. Sebiji aja jangan lebih, sebagai isyarat 'berteman'.
5. Akuisisi FREMM, Mogami, dan submarines tetep sesuai aspirasi 'kawula'.

#chuaks