TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Sanchez]

Well , i'm kinda late into the party .... Can anyone explain what goktug project is ??

Name of the Air to Air missile family project. Bozdoğan for WVR, Gökdoğan for BVR and the ramjet powered Gökhan.
25 missiles each of Bozdoğan and Gökdoğan will be produced and given to the air force by 2025.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

New HGK contract includes 3400 HGK-84

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684503314908475392

 

[Oublious]

New HGK contract includes 3400 HGK-84

View attachment 59619

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684503314908475392

Not enough, i hope that will go up to 10000. Ukrainwar have learned us that amount of kits will go like cay simit.

 

[uçuyorum]

Name of the Air to Air missile family project. Bozdoğan for WVR, Gökdoğan for BVR and the ramjet powered Gökhan.
25 missiles each of Bozdoğan and Gökdoğan will be produced and given to the air force by 2025.

I really wanted to believe you mistyped 250

 

[TheInsider]

Not enough, i hope that will go up to 10000. Ukrainwar have learned us that amount of kits will go like cay simit.

This is just HGK-84. There are 83,82 etc. and then there are KGK and LGK those guys also have 84,83,82 etc. Total inventory is well over 10k and production capacity is huge probably the best in Europe by far.

 

[Agha Sher]

I really wanted to believe you mistyped 250

While the early blocks of the A2A missile family are decent, they probably do not add an advantage to TAF. Hence, the want to buy low numbers for training and familiarisation, while giving SAGE time to develop more advanced versions.

If needed, SAGE could probably accelerate production of existing blocks

 

[Afif]

While the early blocks of the A2A missile family are decent, they probably do not add an advantage to TAF. Hence, the want to buy low numbers for training and familiarisation, while giving SAGE time to develop more advanced versions.

If needed, SAGE could probably accelerate production of existing blocks

Afaik, SAGE doesn’t do the mass production.
It is either ASFAT or Roketsan.

 

[Osman]

This is just HGK-84. There are 83,82 etc. and then there are KGK and LGK those guys also have 84,83,82 etc. Total inventory is well over 10k and production capacity is huge probably the best in Europe by far.

There is even mk 81 based hgks. Teber (mk 81 and 82) and tolun are under serial production too. And maybe laçin I dont know. We are really good in precision guided munitions. By the way there are still jdam orders from usa according to sipri (so far approx 3 000 jdam). I also guess total number in the inventory is well beyond 10 k (even 20)

 

[Trakya_forever]

Afaik, SAGE doesn’t do the mass production.
It is either ASFAT or Roketsan.

This time Sage will do.

 

[AWP]

While the early blocks of the A2A missile family are decent, they probably do not add an advantage to TAF. Hence, the want to buy low numbers for training and familiarisation, while giving SAGE time to develop more advanced versions.

If needed, SAGE could probably accelerate production of existing blocks

Is this a speculation or a fact ?

 

[Agha Sher]

Is this a speculation or a fact ?

My take on it

 

[Trakya_forever]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1685301883764621312

Mr. İkinci says Tayfun balistic missile is in serial production and we are devoloping some new variants.

 

[AzeriTank]

GM might stand for Genel Maksat.
Navy should use those mini beasts

need to be boxed and launched vertically for navy. IIR guided ,32km( vertically 20km) ranged supersonic ATGM could waste the new USV threats.

it was mentioned in the fair that it means "genishletilmish menzil" (Extented range)

 

[Yasar_TR]

One of the highlights of the last fair was the MKE’s precision guided kits for the 155mm artillery shells.

MKE'den 155mm Güdümlü Obüs Mühimmatı sürprizi

MKE A.Ş., 155mm'lik Obüs Mühimmatı için Tapa Güdüm Kiti (TGK) geliştirdi. Geliştirilen güdüm kiti ile FIRTINA Obüsleri, hedeflerini hassasiyetle vurabilecekler.

www.savunmasanayist.com

However the 50m CEP value given by MKE seems rather a high figure. Also there was no indication about the extension of range which was promised in earlier news pieces.

US’s Excalibur developed by BAE Systems, has a CEP value of less than 10 m and a probable range in excess of 70km.

Although working on the principle of air braking and hence guidance; Both Aselsan’s “Mesafece Duzeltme Kiti” ATOM,

Or Roketsan’s “Mesafece Duzeltme Kiti”

have CEP values of 50 m each.
If MKE’s CEP value is not better than that or closer to the Excalibur’s, with a longer range than what we currently have for the 155mm artillery shells, they should really get their act together and re evaluate their CEP values.

Roketsan - 105/155 mm Obüs Mühimmatı Mesafece Düzeltme Kiti

www.roketsan.com.tr

 

[Sanchez]

All three are guidance kits with tiny fins, attached to dumb munitions. Excalibur is tailor made for pinpoint strikes. It's more of a 155mm gun launched smart bomb, rather than a howitzer shell.

It's not reasonable to expect a similar CEP from guidance kits. If we want an Excalibur like munition, Aselsan, Sage or Roketsan should undertake it and start from the ground up, not MKE.

 

[Bürküt]

One of the highlights of the last fair was the MKE’s precision guided kits for the 155mm artillery shells.

MKE'den 155mm Güdümlü Obüs Mühimmatı sürprizi

MKE A.Ş., 155mm'lik Obüs Mühimmatı için Tapa Güdüm Kiti (TGK) geliştirdi. Geliştirilen güdüm kiti ile FIRTINA Obüsleri, hedeflerini hassasiyetle vurabilecekler.

www.savunmasanayist.com

However the 50m CEP value given by MKE seems rather a high figure. Also there was no indication about the extension of range which was promised in earlier news pieces.

View attachment 59807

US’s Excalibur developed by BAE Systems, has a CEP value of less than 10 m and a probable range in excess of 70km.

View attachment 59806

Although working on the principle of air braking and hence guidance; Both Aselsan’s “Mesafece Duzeltme Kiti” ATOM,
View attachment 59810

Or Roketsan’s “Mesafece Duzeltme Kiti” View attachment 59808

have CEP values of 50 m each.
If MKE’s CEP value is not better than that or closer to the Excalibur’s, with a longer range than what we currently have for the 155mm artillery shells, they should really get their act together and re evaluate their CEP values.

Roketsan - 105/155 mm Obüs Mühimmatı Mesafece Düzeltme Kiti

www.roketsan.com.tr

Could the CEP values given be intentionally modest?In the early days of Gökdoğan 65+ km was said.And then İsmail Demir said that its range over 100+km.And there are other similar examples.

 

[Afif]

All three are guidance kits with tiny fins, attached to dumb munitions. Excalibur is tailor made for pinpoint strikes. It's more of a 155mm gun launched smart bomb, rather than a howitzer shell.

It's not reasonable to expect a similar CEP from guidance kits. If we want an Excalibur like munition, Aselsan, Sage or Roketsan should undertake it and start from the ground up, not MKE.

You are right. What @Yasar has presented of MKE guidance kit, is similar to NG's PGK.

M1156 precision guidance kit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However, MKE could still improve their guidance kit's CEP value to less than 30m like NG's PGK.



On a side note, I just wanna say- Even with unguided shells, Ukrainian artillery units when using digital fire control system (of Western delivered SPH) delivered accurate first round close proximity hits on vehicles/artillery position of the russian army countless times.

 

[Yasar_TR]

All three are guidance kits with tiny fins, attached to dumb munitions. Excalibur is tailor made for pinpoint strikes. It's more of a 155mm gun launched smart bomb, rather than a howitzer shell.

It's not reasonable to expect a similar CEP from guidance kits.

If we want an Excalibur like munition, Aselsan, Sage or Roketsan should undertake it and start from the ground up, not MKE.

If you check the latest versions of Excalibur, you will find ranges of 70 km. They too are guided by small fins. First 155mm L39 guns achieved a CEP of 5m and 40+km range.
Then with L52 guns they reached 56km range.
Latest news coming from BAE were 43.5 miles (70km) precision strikes with electronic defences and possibility of hitting moving targets.
I remember our @Cabatli_TR mentioning similar ranges here.

Artillery Systems & Projects

Firtina howitzer rounds: It is aimed to increase the range of 40 kilometers to 56 kilometers in the first place and to 72 kilometers later. By the end of this year, the 56 km target will be reached. Source: AA

defencehub.live

Both Aselsan’s and Roketsan’s system actually work on air brakes. They are not fin operated. The metal parts around the kit open up and close and apply brake on the shell, hence guiding it.

Looking at MKE’s system there are actuators and fins to guide the shell more positively like the ones on Excalibur’s nose..

 

[Fighter_35]

This is just HGK-84. There are 83,82 etc. and then there are KGK and LGK those guys also have 84,83,82 etc. Total inventory is well over 10k and production capacity is huge probably the best in Europe by far.

Still not enough, considering the depletion of munitions in ukranian war.
We should have atleast 30k air to ground guided missiles. Since we also have UAVs at the moment and they are also able to carry most of the munitions.
We should count 100 missiles per day and we should have at least missile storage for a year. And if we include any spare missiles for any likely storage blow ups, we need to add 10 percent more.

 

[Fighter_35]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1685301883764621312

Mr. İkinci says Tayfun balistic missile is in serial production and we are devoloping some new variants.

Maybe a variant for anti ship missions?