TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Sanchez]

On a side note, I just wanna say- Even with unguided shells, Ukrainian artillery units when using digital fire control system (of Western delivered SPH) delivered accurate first round close proximity hits on vehicles/artillery position of the russian army countless times.

Saturation is still king. Modern SPHs can send 3 shots to a target in 20+ seconds. Excalibur is an amazing weapon, and it's great to have it on your arsenal. The ability to build these guidance kits in bulk, for cheap is just as important as a capability and probably a greater tool in actual war. If I remember right, Roketsan's kit is also made for 105mm rounds as well. We need ever more guns now, more than we already have. A small number of modern SPGs does not cut it, as we've seen.

 

[Dmr]

Saturation is still king. Modern SPHs can send 3 shots to a target in 20+ seconds. Excalibur is an amazing weapon, and it's great to have it on your arsenal. The ability to build these guidance kits in bulk, for cheap is just as important as a capability and probably a greater tool in actual war. If I remember right, Roketsan's kit is also made for 105mm rounds as well. We need ever more guns now, more than we already have. A small number of modern SPGs does not cut it, as we've seen.

After Russia,Turkey has the highest number of artillery pieces in Europe if I am not wrong.With Yavuz/Arpan or whatever the name of the wheeled 155mm howitzer is,one would expect that number to be even higher.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Can't we develop a hybrid guided artillery rocket fired from the 155mm Howitzer barrel, for pinpoint strikes? I inspired by rockets fired from a tank barrel. (LAHAT)

Since it will accelerate gradually, the time of arrival at the target will be more or less the same as with conventional artillery munitions.

 

[CAN_TR]

One M982 Excalibur shell costs more than 100k USD. That is not cost efficient, no matter how precise it is rather invest more in TRG 122/230/300. Something like M1156 PGK from Northrop makes way more sense for us and it's good that MKE is going that path.

The war in Ukraine is the perfect example how effective even dumb shells can be with modern fire control systems and "drone guidance", so i'd rather prefer cheaper "less accurate" guidance kits we can mass produce over something like Excalibur. Nice to have but you can do without it.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Is it possible to shoot the shells in with different angles, therefore making them hit the target in near-simultaneous intervals? With a CEP of 50 metres, that would practically means a successful hit %99 of the time. Or better yet, shoot as a battery. I don't believe we'll get beyond the excalibur's 100k value even if we shoot 5 shells per target. Then again, I might be wrong.

 

[UkroTurk]

Can't we develop a hybrid guided artillery rocket fired from the 155mm Howitzer barrel, for pinpoint strikes? I inspired by rockets fired from a tank barrel. (LAHAT)

Since it will accelerate gradually, the time of arrival at the target will be more or less the same as with conventional artillery munitions.

Wouldn't be better putting rocket launcher on tracked vehicles.?

Due-to longe range strike capacity, TRG-300 doesn't require maneuverable tracked vehicles.
But AFAIK we don't have any tracked 122mmMRLS .

 

[Heartbang]

Is it possible to shoot the shells in with different angles, therefore making them hit the target in near-simultaneous intervals?

Its called "Multiple round simultaneous impact", and several SPH systems have that feature, with K9 Thunder included amongst them

 

[Merzifonlu]

Wouldn't be better putting rocket launcher on tracked vehicles.?

We cannot leave our barreled artillery without ammunition against time-critical opportunity targets. I thinking about that task.

Okay, we will have SAL guided artillery shells, but they should also have INS+IIR guided artillery rockets like Tanok.

 

[UkroTurk]

We cannot leave our barreled artillery without ammunition against time-critical opportunity targets. I thinking about that task.

Okay, we will have SAL guided artillery shells, but they should also have INS+IIR guided artillery rockets like Tanok.

Regarding time-critical concerns, MRLS is best solution. You could deploy tracked or wheeled MRLS with your towed or Self propelled howitzers together. Not a big deal.

İmagine as if this were next to Fırtına howitzer.

Unimog based Valkyrie MK1 was the answer Soviets Grad.
Turkish Army has also a lot of Unimogs. Could Turkish defense industry transform those unmanned MRLS?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407690777661214720

 

[Afif]

Is it possible to shoot the shells in with different angles, therefore making them hit the target in near-simultaneous intervals? With a CEP of 50 metres, that would practically means a successful hit %99 of the time. Or better yet, shoot as a battery. I don't believe we'll get beyond the excalibur's 100k value even if we shoot 5 shells per target. Then again, I might be wrong.

Although @Heartbang already explained it, here are some detailed visual representations of MRSI against fixed targets.
(Same tactic can be and is employed against advancing enemy formations with desirable effect as Ukraine war showed us countless times)

 

[Sanchez]

After Russia,Turkey has the highest number of artillery pieces in Europe if I am not wrong.With Yavuz/Arpan or whatever the name of the wheeled 155mm howitzer is,one would expect that number to be even higher.

This is true, but an absolute majority of them are old, and lack the new tech we have that makes the life of an artilleryman easy. There are efforts to modernize them, like Aselsan's modernization solutions for 60, 81 and 120mm mortars and these are now being inducted into the service. Just that we need more, so much more. 105mm Boran replacing old 105mm guns, further motorizing 155mm Panters to Arpan, building 155mm Fırtına Block 2s, modernizing old guns with fire control systems are all part of a whole. Saturation with more accurate firing solutions is the bigger king.

 

[Quasar]

Concerning artilary shells we need them all

-Ordinary artilary shells with +150 m Cep
-artiiary shells with Basic guidance kits with 50 m Cep
-artilary shells with laser Guadiance kit with <10 m
-artilary shells with INS+GPS < 10 m

For last two guess they are not an easy task dont know tip of an artilary shell should be not the best spot to place delicate electronics and actuators for instance the initial velocity of Excalibur is 827 m/s

MKE is not the old MKE and has done excellent jobs recently but IMHO the last two types of artilary guidance systems are not their field

note:

MKE solution looks very similar to M1156 Precision Guidance Kit with exact CEP value of 50 m and it is safe to assume that MKE's PGK should be using GPS as well.

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2008/fuze/VABurke.pdf

 

[Huelague]

Ebabil| High Speed Bullet

The Dawn of Ebabil Technology: A Revolution in Bullet Impact and Speed - BNN Breaking

Forging a New Path in Defense Technology At the recent IDEF'23 Defense Industry Fair, the unveiling of the Ebabil technology by HC R&D signaled a new

bnn.network

 

[Huelague]

Imagine if you get hit by this bullet No matter where you get hited. The high impact can cause a heart attack. And you could die.

 

[UkroTurk]

Ebabil| High Speed Bullet

The Dawn of Ebabil Technology: A Revolution in Bullet Impact and Speed - BNN Breaking

Forging a New Path in Defense Technology At the recent IDEF'23 Defense Industry Fair, the unveiling of the Ebabil technology by HC R&D signaled a new

bnn.network

I would just ask
What the hell is Ebabil ammunition technology. 105mm tank ammunition can't destroy 1x1x1 mcub concrete blocks but this waste the blocks.


Ebabil 57mm recoilless rifle ammunition could penetrate 2 concrete walls!

Put 6/8 recoilless gun onto unmanned ground vehicle, you would have tank destroyer with those crazy Ebabil ammunition!

 

[zio]

Please do no

I would just ask
What the hell is Ebabil ammunition technology. 105mm tank ammunition can't destroy 1x1x1 mcub concrete blocks but this waste the blocks.


Ebabil 57mm recoilless rifle ammunition could penetrate 2 concrete walls!

Put 6/8 recoilless gun onto unmanned ground vehicle, you would have tank destroyer with those crazy

It makes me confuse…just made a trial with same ammo and same gun without it and with ebabil to the same target and show the difference.

 

[TheInsider]

Ebabil seems like a scam.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Ebabil seems like a scam.

I think so.

 

[Afif]

Concerning artilary shells we need them all

-Ordinary artilary shells with +150 m Cep
-artiiary shells with Basic guidance kits with 50 m Cep
-artilary shells with laser Guadiance kit with <10 m
-artilary shells with INS+GPS < 10 m

For last two guess they are not an easy task dont know tip of an artilary shell should be not the best spot to place delicate electronics and actuators for instance the initial velocity of Excalibur is 827 m/s

MKE is not the old MKE and has done excellent jobs recently but IMHO the last two types of artilary guidance systems are not their field

note:

View attachment 59828 View attachment 59830
MKE solution looks very similar to M1156 Precision Guidance Kit with exact CEP value of 50 m and it is safe to assume that MKE's PGK should be using GPS as well.

View attachment 59831

View attachment 59832

View attachment 59833

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2008/fuze/VABurke.pdf

According to manufacturer (NG), the current CEP value of PGK is less than 30 meters. (Probably around 20-25 meters)

 

[Huelague]

I would just ask
What the hell is Ebabil ammunition technology. 105mm tank ammunition can't destroy 1x1x1 mcub concrete blocks but this waste the blocks.


Ebabil 57mm recoilless rifle ammunition could penetrate 2 concrete walls!

Put 6/8 recoilless gun onto unmanned ground vehicle, you would have tank destroyer with those crazy Ebabil ammunition!

What does it means for our barrels? Are they fit for this munition?