TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Afif]

Probably significant discounts were given to secure the first foreign customer.

It wasn't, look at other contenders offers.

The lowest bidder is RM42.075 million; followed by RM42.322 million; RM44.550 million; RM44.736 million and highest RM46.673.

Black Arrow – the Turkish Delights – Malaysian Defence

www.malaysiandefence.com

What I meant is it was cost effective compared to Javelin.

 

[Agha Sher]

It wasn't, look at other contenders offers.

The lowest bidder is RM42.075 million; followed by RM42.322 million; RM44.550 million; RM44.736 million and highest RM46.673.

Black Arrow – the Turkish Delights – Malaysian Defence

www.malaysiandefence.com

What I meant is it was cost effective compared to Javelin.

Which one is Roketsan's bid? Also, I would argue that looking at the bids is not a fair comparison and there are product capability and quality differences as well. Karaok is a brand new system and has advantages relative to existing systems.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Perhaps $450000 in total. Missile is roughly $200k and CLU is $250k.
(Of course each missile doesn't come with a CLU. Roughly 1x CLU per 5/6x missiles)

Please see my Edit

Previous article clearly says 197000 dollars includes CLU

 

[Afif]

Which one is Roketsan's bid? Also, I would argue that looking at the bids is not a fair comparison and there are product capability and quality differences as well. Karaok is a brand new system and has advantages relative to existing systems.

So is South Korean AT-1K Raybolt and Chinese HJ-12. Specs are pretty much same. I don't see any reason to believe SK or Chinese product would be inferior in this regard.
It is just that Roketsan is little late at the game.

if one is chosen out of three very similar systems, that does not necessarily make it technically desicive.

Because, there are other factors that influence the choice other than mere technical sspecifications.

So, unless you have any specific technical argument that proves otherwise, i would say the comparison is very much fair.

 

[Ryder]

BTW Are we dare to sell weapons to Tayvan?Seems they interested in our drone and missile.

If they can provide us the chip technology...

We should export to Taiwan to be honest.

I could careless what those commies think.

Pkk sources a lot of its weapons from China. China is the hub of cheap weapons plus they keep our Uygur brothers and sisters in concentration camps.

Plus we had to deal with their Covid bullcrap. Lockdown took a toll on the global population.

Plus in Geopolitics we are always at the opposite sides. China will always be on the side of the Axis of "Resistance".

It would be stupid to ignore Taiwan. Just because we are afraid to offend the CCP. Ccp will never care about Turkiye's sensibilities.

Exporting to Taiwan some defence products is like exporting to Ukraine. Let some of our weapons be used on China.

 

[B_A]

Türkiye ile Tayvan arasında İHA iş birliği

İnsansız hava aracı (İHA) teknolojisi alanında önemli faaliyetlerin yürütüldüğü Dronepark'a ev sahipliği yapan Gebze Teknik Üniversitesi (GTÜ) ile Dronepark'ta konuşlu ve İHA sektörüne yeni bir soluk kazandıran Coşkunöz Holding iştiraki Fly BVLOS Technology Tayvan'a açılıyor.

www.cumhuriyet.com.tr

Haluk Bayraktar'dan Tayvan'a İHA Satışı Açıklaması

Baykar Genel Müdürü Haluk Bayraktar, Tayvan ve Hindistan’a yönelik Bayraktar TB2'nin ihracatıyla ilgili önemli açıklamalarda bulundu.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Our UAV,Mini Submarine,missile is good for Taiwan to against any landing force.

 

[Agha Sher]

While I agree that Turkiye needs a tough stance on China due to the Uyghur issue. Supporting Taiwan is not the right thing. The pigs in Taiwan are worse than CCP. They are even more expansionist and believers of Chinese superiority. Let them fight and kill each other.

Now, let's not get off topic.

 

[Bürküt]

We should export to Taiwan to be honest.

I could careless what those commies think.

Pkk sources a lot of its weapons from China. China is the hub of cheap weapons plus they keep our Uygur brothers and sisters in concentration camps.

Plus we had to deal with their Covid bullcrap. Lockdown took a toll on the global population.

Plus in Geopolitics we are always at the opposite sides. China will always be on the side of the Axis of "Resistance".

It would be stupid to ignore Taiwan. Just because we are afraid to offend the CCP. Ccp will never care about Turkiye's sensibilities.

Exporting to Taiwan some defence products is like exporting to Ukraine. Let some of our weapons be used on China.

They wanted to buy the Zoka for their submarines from us. And now they are developing it on their own because we don't allow it.We can put our most critical project at great risk for the sake of Pakistan.But that's how we treat a desperate country that can supply us with all kinds of semi-conducter we need.

 

[B_A]

While I agree that Turkiye needs a tough stance on China due to the Uyghur issue. Supporting Taiwan is not the right thing. The pigs in Taiwan are worse than CCP. They are even more expansionist and believers of Chinese superiority. Let them fight and kill each other.

Now, let's not get off topic.

If they give us the chip technology.....

BTW I agree Taiwanese is almost same as Chinese but they only had 20 million people not a big threat.

For your post lets dont use the ”pig" but the "Guys"

 

[Afif]

They wanted to buy the Zoka for their submarines from us. And now they are developing it on their own because we don't allow it.We can put our most critical project at great risk for the sake of Pakistan.But that's how we treat a desperate country that can supply us with all kinds of semi-conducter we need.

I would say the premise is not correct.
Taiwan is not a country.

 

[Heartbang]

We should export to Taiwan to be honest.

I could careless what those commies think.

Pkk sources a lot of its weapons from China. China is the hub of cheap weapons plus they keep our Uygur brothers and sisters in concentration camps.

Plus we had to deal with their Covid bullcrap. Lockdown took a toll on the global population.

Plus in Geopolitics we are always at the opposite sides. China will always be on the side of the Axis of "Resistance".

It would be stupid to ignore Taiwan. Just because we are afraid to offend the CCP. Ccp will never care about Turkiye's sensibilities.

Exporting to Taiwan some defence products is like exporting to Ukraine. Let some of our weapons be used on China.

While I agree that Turkiye needs a tough stance on China due to the Uyghur issue. Supporting Taiwan is not the right thing. The pigs in Taiwan are worse than CCP. They are even more expansionist and believers of Chinese superiority. Let them fight and kill each other.

Now, let's not get off topic.

A fight on Taiwan would almost definitely involve the collective West (+maybe India) against China and Russia. We must let them fight, and make sure they do so for a long, LONG time. Sell arms to the both sides if you have to.

 

[Ryder]

A fight on Taiwan would almost definitely involve the collective West (+maybe India) against China and Russia. We must let them fight, and make sure they do so for a long, LONG time. Sell arms to the both sides if you have to.

Chinese regardless if its Commie or Non Commie will always be our enemies.

Its better for Taiwan and China to be at each others throats.

Taiwan is desperate for recognition and diplomatic relations with any country it can get its hands on.

If Taiwan can offer some critical important stuff for Turkiye we should look into it.

 

[B_A]

In the race to arm Asia, can ‘cost-effective’ Turkey best ‘quality’ South Korea?

Turkey has so far struggled to secure large-scale orders from the Asia-Pacific, despite scoring billion-dollar contracts in the Middle East and supplying Ukraine with its famous Bayraktar combat drones.

www.scmp.com

“South Korea has a reputation as a quality manufacturer of civilian equipment, including hi-tech equipment, which is not enjoyed by Turkey,” he said, creating a sort of “halo effect which bleeds over” from things such as automobiles, televisions, and computers into weapons

Turkey will “continue to struggle with this reputational deficit for some time, until it achieves parity as a producer of commercial high technology”, DesRoches said.

 

[Afif]

The article is not very well written.
They got some of the stuff wrong.

Anyway, IMO South korea is not the Turkey's main competitor here, i think it is PRC.

The countries that will buy large amount of Turkish weapons in South and East Asia are more or less fixed. PAK, Indoensia, Malaysia and BD. (Thailand, Vietnam and Philippines could be potential customers for large purchases. But I don't see any signs.)

However, due to the advantage of incredible cost effectiveness (with relatively advanced capabilities) coupled with the facilities for line of credit, China still continues to be the largest arms supplier to Pak and BD. (Tanks, guns, jets, air defence systems, ships as well as submarines)

 

[Radko]

Indonesian defence ministry, navy at impasse over ‘Red White' frigate's combat systems

The Indonesian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and the Indonesian Navy have reached an impasse over the ‘Red White' frigate programme's combat systems.

www.janes.com

Let's see the sensors/weapons now, really hope for them to be Turkish, sadly article is paywalled and can see only the BMS is Turkish part

 

[Afif]

Indonesian defence ministry, navy at impasse over ‘Red White' frigate's combat systems

The Indonesian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and the Indonesian Navy have reached an impasse over the ‘Red White' frigate programme's combat systems.

www.janes.com

Let's see the sensors/weapons now, really hope for them to be Turkish, sadly article is paywalled and can see only the BMS is Turkish part

The suite of weapons that has been proposed for Indonesian requirements include 12-cell vertical launching system (VLS) for medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), a separate 12-cell VLS for long-range SAMs, a 16-cell VLS for surface-to-surface missiles, two 76 mm naval guns, and a 35 mm close-in weapon system (CIWS).

PT PAL lays keel for Indonesia's first ‘Red White' frigate

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has laid down the country's first ‘Red White' frigate.

www.janes.com

 

[Radko]

12 cell VLS? Does anyone produce it?

 

[uçuyorum]

12 cell VLS? Does anyone produce it?

Naval VLS solutions

DCNS Sylver Vertical Launching System (VLS) The Sylver (SYstème de Lancement VERtical) is a vertical launching system (VLS) designed by DCNS. The launcher comes in several variants, each distinguished by their height. A-35 and A-43 were developed for launching short range surface-to-air...

defencehub.live

A few in there that could be done 12

 

[B_A]

The article is not very well written.
They got some of the stuff wrong.

Anyway, IMO South korea is not the Turkey's main competitor here, i think it is PRC.

The countries that will buy large amount of Turkish weapons in South and East Asia are more or less fixed. PAK, Indoensia, Malaysia and BD. (Thailand, Vietnam and Philippines could be potential customers for large purchases. But I don't see any signs.)

However, due to the advantage of incredible cost effectiveness (with relatively advanced capabilities) coupled with the facilities for line of credit, China still continues to be the largest arms supplier to Pak and BD. (Tanks, guns, jets, air defence systems, ships as well as submarines)

Philippines bought T-129

Actually Turkey will become Korea’ s main competition soon because some systems will be ready later.

Altay -K2
T155-K9
Hurjet-FA50
Submarines

......those systems Turkey still not ready,

Korean won Indonesia submanrine and Malaysia trainer jet over Turkish.

By now that s Chinese -Turkey competitions mainly in drones and helicopters, which Koreans didn't sell.

 

[Afif]

Philippines bought T-129

Actually Turkey will become Korean s main competitors soon because some systems will ready later.

Altay -K2
T155-K9
Hurjet-FA50
Submarines

And ROK already sold thousand k2 tanks, and close to thousand K9.

They also old over hundred FA-50.

After such sales if i were ROK i don't think i would concern myself that much with any competitors.

By now that s Chinese -Turkey competitors mainly in drones and helicopters, which Korean didn't sold

Not really, if you look carefully, China recently sold hundreds of tanks and hundreds of howitzers to Pakistan.
They also sold 8 submarine for 5 billions.
(Countries don't buy submarine every 5/10 years. They do it once in three decades or so)
Same with BD, CHINA is the largest suppliers of heavy weapons to BD to this day.

There is a strong competition for all kind of systems between Türkiye and PRC, not only drones and helicopters.