TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Afif]

Karaok sale to Malaysia includes 18 systems, 108 missiles total for 20 million $

Turkey’s Roketsan wins Malaysian deal for Karaok anti-tank missiles

An industry source estimated the contract price at around $20 million.

www.defensenews.com

That is confusing.

According to @wolveray1 the budget is around $10 millions.

Roketsan karaok win malaysian tender for atgm against another 4 bidders.
Currently it is a small batches worth only usd10 millions.

Black Arrow - the Turkish Delights - Malaysian Defence

SHAH ALAM: In early June, Malaysian Defence reported that five bidders have been shortlisted for the tender of 18 Anti-Tank Guided Weapon Medium Range (ATGW-MR) which was published on April 18. It was supposed to close on May 18 but the deadline was extended to June 1. From the story: [...]

www.malaysiandefence.com

Malaysiandefence seems to be quoting specific numbers for five shortlisted bidders.

The lowest bidder is RM42.075 million; followed by RM42.322 million; RM44.550 million; RM44.736 million and highest RM46.673.

I wonder if Malaysian Ministry of Defense formally specified the budget. Is there any way to know it @wolveray1 ?

 

[Sanchez]

Eh, it is possible that Bekdil is out of his depth again, but let's see.

 

[Trakya_forever]

8 for Akıncı? Pak, Aze, Qatar, UAE, SA. Others?

 

[Anmdt]

again

Was he ever otherwise?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

8 for Akıncı? Pak, Aze, Qatar, UAE, SA. Others?

Libya, Kyrgyzstan, and probably Mali, Burkina Faso or Niger.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Libya, Kyrgyzstan, and probably Mali, Burkina Faso or Niger.

Kingdom of Morocco!

 

[Agha Sher]

Libya, Kyrgyzstan, and probably Mali, Burkina Faso or Niger.

Ver very unlikely to be Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger.

 

[Afif]

Kingdom of Morocco!

Confirmed?
Aren’t you little concern that Türkiye is supplying both sides. E. g. TAI is supplying Anka and Aksungur to Algeria While Morocco is getting TB-2 and possibly Akinci.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Confirmed?
Aren’t you little concern that Türkiye is supplying both sides. E. g. TAI is supplying Anka and Aksungur to Algeria While Morocco is getting TB-2 and possibly Akinci.

Why would Morocco be concerned? From which perspective?

 

[Afif]

Why would Morocco be concerned? From which perspective?

Given the arms race between two countries?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Kingdom of Morocco!

I really hope so.

 

[wolveray1]

That is confusing.

According to @wolveray1 the budget is around $10 millions.

Black Arrow - the Turkish Delights - Malaysian Defence

SHAH ALAM: In early June, Malaysian Defence reported that five bidders have been shortlisted for the tender of 18 Anti-Tank Guided Weapon Medium Range (ATGW-MR) which was published on April 18. It was supposed to close on May 18 but the deadline was extended to June 1. From the story: [...]

www.malaysiandefence.com

Malaysiandefence seems to be quoting specific numbers for five shortlisted bidders.

The lowest bidder is RM42.075 million; followed by RM42.322 million; RM44.550 million; RM44.736 million and highest RM46.673.

I wonder if Malaysian Ministry of Defense formally specified the budget. Is there any way to know it @wolveray1 ?

I've read a few tweet quoting the same numbers from malaysian defense blog.

 

[Osman]

"One Roketsan official said the Karaok system is capable of engaging and destroying armor and fortified bunkers at a distance of 2-4 kilometers (1.2-2.5 miles)."

From bekdil's news. Karaok's max effective range is 4 km now

 

[guest12]

"One Roketsan official said the Karaok system is capable of engaging and destroying armor and fortified bunkers at a distance of 2-4 kilometers (1.2-2.5 miles)."

From bekdil's news. Karaok's max effective range is 4 km now

Its still 2.5 km then.

 

[Heartbang]

Its still 2.5 km then.

Defence Exports & Updates

And if you speak to PKK supporters they'll tell you how great they were and how you shouldn't trust propaganda coming from Turkish sources. You talk about growing up while believing people who support terrorists readily. There is no reason to talk and derail the thread anymore, I hope people in...

defencehub.live

As I explained in the above link, its up to the CLU unit which provides guidance to the missile, not the missile itself.

 

[Tornadoss]

Defence Exports & Updates

And if you speak to PKK supporters they'll tell you how great they were and how you shouldn't trust propaganda coming from Turkish sources. You talk about growing up while believing people who support terrorists readily. There is no reason to talk and derail the thread anymore, I hope people in...

defencehub.live

As I explained in the above link, its up to the CLU unit which provides guidance to the missile, not the missile itself.

So, Karaok being smaller and lighter than Omtas has the same range with it? Doubt that unless you have a source showing it's range is 4 Km, it's range is 2.5 KM as stated Roketsan's brochure.

Roketsan - KARAOK Short-Range Anti-Tank Weapon

www.roketsan.com.tr

 

[Heartbang]

So, Karaok being smaller and lighter than Omtas has the same range with it? Doubt that unless you have a source showing it's range is 4 Km, it's range is 2.5 KM as stated Roketsan's brochure.

Roketsan - KARAOK Short-Range Anti-Tank Weapon

www.roketsan.com.tr

I don't compare it with OMTAS, I compare it with FGM-148 Javelin.

The dimensions of Javelin and Karaok are pretty much the same. This also applies to weight.
Javelin is listed as 15.9 kilos, Karaok is listed as "<16 kg" (Cheeky)
Therefore, one can assume their kinematic performance would be the same. And would be most definitely correct.
In that case, it would be logical to accept Javelin's range numbers would carry over to the Karaok 1-to-1.

As for the OMTAS, its much larger and heavier than than the systems(TOW and MILAN) that its destined to replace. About 1.8 meters long, weighs 35 kg in its tube.
UMTAS is the same length, only 2.5 kg heavier, with twice the claimed range. Clearly some fvckery is afoot in those specs.

 

[Chocopie]

I don't compare it with OMTAS, I compare it with FGM-148 Javelin.

The dimensions of Javelin and Karaok are pretty much the same. This also applies to weight.
Javelin is listed as 15.9 kilos, Karaok is listed as "<16 kg" (Cheeky)
Therefore, one can assume their kinematic performance would be the same. And would be most definitely correct.
In that case, it would be logical to accept Javelin's range numbers would carry over to the Karaok 1-to-1.

As for the OMTAS, its much larger and heavier than than the systems(TOW and MILAN) that its destined to replace. About 1.8 meters long, weighs 35 kg in its tube.
UMTAS is the same length, only 2.5 kg heavier, with twice the claimed range. Clearly some fvckery is afoot in those specs.

Karaok and Javelin are different in wing design, warhead weight, seeker, rocket fuel and propulsion, flight paths and attack angles. They‘re not 1:1 clones. No reasons to question the specs of the producer Roketsan of 2,5 km.

FGM-148 was introduced 1996 with 2 km range, later enhanced to 2,5 km and with latest lightweight CLU (2022) the operational range „could“ reach 4 to 4,5 km. Qualified effective range is still 2,5 km according to US Army:

SPECIFICATIONS

• Weight (Block 1 Missile and CLU combined): 48.8 pounds (Missile – 33.3 pounds; CLU – 15.5 pounds)
• Diameter: 127 mm
• Range: Qualified to 2,500 meters; demonstrated performance to 4,000 meters in most operational conditions

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/javelin/

 

[Afif]

Karaok and Javelin are different in wing design, warhead weight, seeker, rocket fuel and propulsion, flight paths and attack angles. They‘re not 1:1 clones. No reasons to question the specs of the producer Roketsan of 2,5 km.

FGM-148 was introduced 1996 with 2 km range, later enhanced to 2,5 km and with latest lightweight CLU (2022) the operational range „could“ reach 4 to 4,5 km. Qualified effective range is still 2,5 km according to US Army:

„SPECIFICATIONS

• Weight (Block 1 Missile and CLU combined): 48.8 pounds (Missile – 33.3 pounds; CLU – 15.5 pounds)
• Diameter: 127 mm
• Range: Qualified to 2,500 meters; demonstrated performance to 4,000 meters in most operational conditions“

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/javelin/

I know what I am about to say is unpopular, but I think within next decade these ATGMs will loose much of their significance against the armour of first world armies. At least in the sense of what we witnessed in Ukraine.
because now state of art Active protection systems are being installed on all the new generation Tanks and IFVs. Abrams M1 A2 SEP3, challenger 3, leopard 2 a8, Altay, VT-4, KF-41 Lynx AS-21 Redback are all coming equipped with Trophy, iron fist, Akkor, GL-6, etc. And they can indeed defeat top attack ammunitions. With the operational use of Trophy with a success rate of 95%, we can reliably conclude that Active protection system do works.

I think in the future anti armour system capabilities will get much more complicated in order to defeat APS. 70mm Rockets could play a part in this.

 

[Heartbang]

Karaok and Javelin are different in wing design, warhead weight, seeker, rocket fuel and propulsion, flight paths and attack angles.

Prove it.

No reasons to question the specs of the producer Roketsan of 2,5 km.

I wasn't questioning the specs of Karaok, I was questioning the specs of OMTAS

and with latest lightweight CLU (2022) the operational range „could“ reach 4 to 4,5 km.

My point EXACTLY!