TR Defence Exports & Updates

Afif

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Karaok sale to Malaysia includes 18 systems, 108 missiles total for 20 million $

That is confusing.

According to @wolveray1 the budget is around $10 millions.

Roketsan karaok win malaysian tender for atgm against another 4 bidders.
Currently it is a small batches worth only usd10 millions.




Malaysiandefence seems to be quoting specific numbers for five shortlisted bidders.

The lowest bidder is RM42.075 million; followed by RM42.322 million; RM44.550 million; RM44.736 million and highest RM46.673.

I wonder if Malaysian Ministry of Defense formally specified the budget. Is there any way to know it @wolveray1 ?
 

Sanchez

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Eh, it is possible that Bekdil is out of his depth again, but let's see.
 

Knowledgeseeker

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Confirmed?
Aren’t you little concern that Türkiye is supplying both sides. E. g. TAI is supplying Anka and Aksungur to Algeria While Morocco is getting TB-2 and possibly Akinci.
Why would Morocco be concerned? From which perspective?
 

wolveray1

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That is confusing.

According to @wolveray1 the budget is around $10 millions.






Malaysiandefence seems to be quoting specific numbers for five shortlisted bidders.

The lowest bidder is RM42.075 million; followed by RM42.322 million; RM44.550 million; RM44.736 million and highest RM46.673.

I wonder if Malaysian Ministry of Defense formally specified the budget. Is there any way to know it @wolveray1 ?
I've read a few tweet quoting the same numbers from malaysian defense blog.
 

Osman

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"One Roketsan official said the Karaok system is capable of engaging and destroying armor and fortified bunkers at a distance of 2-4 kilometers (1.2-2.5 miles)."

From bekdil's news. Karaok's max effective range is 4 km now
 

guest12

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"One Roketsan official said the Karaok system is capable of engaging and destroying armor and fortified bunkers at a distance of 2-4 kilometers (1.2-2.5 miles)."

From bekdil's news. Karaok's max effective range is 4 km now
Its still 2.5 km then.
 

Heartbang

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Its still 2.5 km then.
As I explained in the above link, its up to the CLU unit which provides guidance to the missile, not the missile itself.
 

Tornadoss

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As I explained in the above link, its up to the CLU unit which provides guidance to the missile, not the missile itself.
So, Karaok being smaller and lighter than Omtas has the same range with it? Doubt that unless you have a source showing it's range is 4 Km, it's range is 2.5 KM as stated Roketsan's brochure.
 

Heartbang

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So, Karaok being smaller and lighter than Omtas has the same range with it? Doubt that unless you have a source showing it's range is 4 Km, it's range is 2.5 KM as stated Roketsan's brochure.
I don't compare it with OMTAS, I compare it with FGM-148 Javelin.

The dimensions of Javelin and Karaok are pretty much the same. This also applies to weight.
Javelin is listed as 15.9 kilos, Karaok is listed as "<16 kg" (Cheeky)
Therefore, one can assume their kinematic performance would be the same. And would be most definitely correct.
In that case, it would be logical to accept Javelin's range numbers would carry over to the Karaok 1-to-1.

As for the OMTAS, its much larger and heavier than than the systems(TOW and MILAN) that its destined to replace. About 1.8 meters long, weighs 35 kg in its tube.
UMTAS is the same length, only 2.5 kg heavier, with twice the claimed range. Clearly some fvckery is afoot in those specs.
 

Chocopie

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I don't compare it with OMTAS, I compare it with FGM-148 Javelin.

The dimensions of Javelin and Karaok are pretty much the same. This also applies to weight.
Javelin is listed as 15.9 kilos, Karaok is listed as "<16 kg" (Cheeky)
Therefore, one can assume their kinematic performance would be the same. And would be most definitely correct.
In that case, it would be logical to accept Javelin's range numbers would carry over to the Karaok 1-to-1.

As for the OMTAS, its much larger and heavier than than the systems(TOW and MILAN) that its destined to replace. About 1.8 meters long, weighs 35 kg in its tube.
UMTAS is the same length, only 2.5 kg heavier, with twice the claimed range. Clearly some fvckery is afoot in those specs.
Karaok and Javelin are different in wing design, warhead weight, seeker, rocket fuel and propulsion, flight paths and attack angles. They‘re not 1:1 clones. No reasons to question the specs of the producer Roketsan of 2,5 km.

FGM-148 was introduced 1996 with 2 km range, later enhanced to 2,5 km and with latest lightweight CLU (2022) the operational range „could“ reach 4 to 4,5 km. Qualified effective range is still 2,5 km according to US Army:

SPECIFICATIONS
  • Weight (Block 1 Missile and CLU combined): 48.8 pounds (Missile – 33.3 pounds; CLU – 15.5 pounds)
  • Diameter: 127 mm
  • Range: Qualified to 2,500 meters; demonstrated performance to 4,000 meters in most operational conditions
 

Afif

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Karaok and Javelin are different in wing design, warhead weight, seeker, rocket fuel and propulsion, flight paths and attack angles. They‘re not 1:1 clones. No reasons to question the specs of the producer Roketsan of 2,5 km.

FGM-148 was introduced 1996 with 2 km range, later enhanced to 2,5 km and with latest lightweight CLU (2022) the operational range „could“ reach 4 to 4,5 km. Qualified effective range is still 2,5 km according to US Army:

„SPECIFICATIONS
  • Weight (Block 1 Missile and CLU combined): 48.8 pounds (Missile – 33.3 pounds; CLU – 15.5 pounds)
  • Diameter: 127 mm
  • Range: Qualified to 2,500 meters; demonstrated performance to 4,000 meters in most operational conditions“

I know what I am about to say is unpopular, but I think within next decade these ATGMs will loose much of their significance against the armour of first world armies. At least in the sense of what we witnessed in Ukraine.
because now state of art Active protection systems are being installed on all the new generation Tanks and IFVs. Abrams M1 A2 SEP3, challenger 3, leopard 2 a8, Altay, VT-4, KF-41 Lynx AS-21 Redback are all coming equipped with Trophy, iron fist, Akkor, GL-6, etc. And they can indeed defeat top attack ammunitions. With the operational use of Trophy with a success rate of 95%, we can reliably conclude that Active protection system do works.

I think in the future anti armour system capabilities will get much more complicated in order to defeat APS. 70mm Rockets could play a part in this.
 

Heartbang

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Karaok and Javelin are different in wing design, warhead weight, seeker, rocket fuel and propulsion, flight paths and attack angles.
Prove it.
No reasons to question the specs of the producer Roketsan of 2,5 km.
I wasn't questioning the specs of Karaok, I was questioning the specs of OMTAS
and with latest lightweight CLU (2022) the operational range „could“ reach 4 to 4,5 km.
My point EXACTLY!
 

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