TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Afif]

Afaik, none of flying wing UAVs in ANKA III class has it own AESA sensor. Because there is simply not enough space to fit it in.

 

[UkroTurk]

, do we have smart buoy network in place in Mavi Vatan?

İ meant over mainland not offshore duties . ANKA-3 could reduce work hours of F-16s.

However 7/24 rotating several ANKA-3s over Egean shores would be lethal and surprising. İnstalling several AESA into ANKA-3 is not a big deal. For instance On wings .

Still i haven't got the answer, currently TEI can produce engines of ANKA-3? Which engines are supposed for ANKA-3?

 

[Baryshx]

İ meant over mainland not offshore duties . ANKA-3 could reduce work hours of F-16s.

However 7/24 rotating several ANKA-3s over Egean shores would be lethal and surprising. İnstalling several AESA into ANKA-3 is not a big deal. For instance On wings .

Still i haven't got the answer, currently TEI can produce engines of ANKA-3? Which engines are supposed for ANKA-3?

I remember it was called the Ukrainian engine. Anyway, we don't have much choice.

 

[Yasar_TR]

İ meant over mainland not offshore duties . ANKA-3 could reduce work hours of F-16s.

However 7/24 rotating several ANKA-3s over Egean shores would be lethal and surprising. İnstalling several AESA into ANKA-3 is not a big deal. For instance On wings .

Still i haven't got the answer, currently TEI can produce engines of ANKA-3? Which engines are supposed for ANKA-3?

TF6000 being built by TEI as a 5th generation engine is suitable and most likely meant for Anka3.

There seems to be plenty of space for Aesa radar T/R modules placement if it is so willed.

Until TF6000 is ready an engine like the one on KE, most likely Ukranian (I had rather see an RR Adour on it though) will be powering Anka3.

 

[Samba]

AFAIR the engine was faulty and due to the damage inflicted on Sich motor company facilities, a replacement was not expected anytime soon.

 

[UkroTurk]

TF6000 being built by TEI as a 5th generation engine is suitable and most likely meant for Anka3.

View attachment 63794

There seems to be plenty of space for Aesa radar T/R modules placement if it is so willed.

Until TF6000 is ready an engine like the one on KE, most likely Ukranian (I had rather see an RR Adour on it though) will be powering Anka3.

İt seems TF6000 precious for us currently.
I am looking forward to seeing TF6000.

 

[boredaf]

İnstalling several AESA into ANKA-3 is not a big deal.

AESA radars on the planes (or drone in this instance) is not the same thing as slapping AESA plates on something like Gökdeniz for example. If it was that easy we would've plastered our F-16s with them and called it a day.

We don't know how much power Anka-3 will be able to generate, whether it will be able to support Murad or not. It is not mentioned on Tusaş' website and I can't remember it being mentioned. Let's just see it fly first before getting ahead of ourselves, having a flying wing drone is an enormous achievement by itself already.

 

[Nutuk]

Let us assume that we have a UCAV with integrated KARAT, TOYGUN, IRIS sensors and carries IIR guided missiles.
Can this UCAV shoot down head on incoming BVR missiles?

Depends on the missile, if you have a dedicated counter missile than why not

 

[Yasar_TR]

Let us assume that we have a UCAV with integrated KARAT, TOYGUN, IRIS sensors and carries IIR guided missiles.
Can this UCAV shoot down head on incoming BVR missiles?

TOYGUN has been designed by Aselsan as an Electro-Optical-Targeting-System for the MMU. It can detect passively any threats against the plane and has been specifically designed for a 5th generation aircraft.

KARAT is an Infra-Red-Search&Track system again designed for MMU. Similar to the one in F35 and will be in front, under the nose of the aircraft.

IRIS-100 is an early warning system for incoming threats.

These are all equipments and systems to add to the survivability of the MMU and to enable it to attack air and ground targets.

To fit them on a UCAV like KE should logically impart the same capabilities to the UCAV too. Provided you also have the right ammunition to achieve the end result.

 

[Afif]

KARAT has been designed by Aselsan as an Electro-Optical-Targeting-System for the MMU. It can detect passively any threats against the plane and has been specifically designed for a 5th generation aircraft.

Toygun is an Infra-Red-Search&Track system again designed for MMU. Similar to the one in F35 and will be in front, under the nose of the aircraft.

Isn't Toygun the Electro optical Targeting system and KARAT is the IRST?

 

[Afif]

Could a KAAN equipped with those sensors, send the necessary information to its loyal wingman, which is not equipped with those sensors? So could the loyal wingman of KAAN act as a IIR guided missile carrier platform, only to shoot down BVR missiles?

That is US Air Force's one of the proposed CCA (collaborative combat aircraft) concept. You can get an idea how MUM-T may look like.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Isn't Toygun the Electro optical Targeting system and KARAT is the IRST?

Well spotted!
corrected. Thanks.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Could a KAAN equipped with those sensors, send the necessary information to its loyal wingman, which is not equipped with those sensors? So could the loyal wingman of KAAN act as a IIR guided missile carrier platform, only to shoot down BVR missiles?

That is one of the prerequisite jobs of KAAN in the years to come.
It has to be the distributor of jobs and a conductor/director of various swarms/UCAVs to inflict maximum damage to targets.
Turkish war doctrine for the future is based on UCAVs and drones being managed and directed by a plane like KAAN in the air and a ship, directing ULAQ type unmanned sea platforms in a similar manner.

Only a few days ago the chief engineer of Tusas was explaining how they have been considering and designing to use the back seat of Hurjet as the director and controller of drones.

 

[uçuyorum]

That is one of the prerequisite jobs of KAAN in the years to come.
It has to be the distributor of jobs and a conductor/director of various swarms/UCAVs to inflict maximum damage to targets.
Turkish war doctrine for the future is based on UCAVs and drones being managed and directed by a plane like KAAN in the air and a ship, directing ULAQ type unmanned sea platforms in a similar manner.

Only a few days ago the chief engineer of Tusas was explaining how they have been considering and designing to use the back seat of Hurjet as the director and controller of drones.

I also wish they focused on reducing the actual job pilot does to fly the plane so the sole pilot can focus on mission systems rather than trying to maneuver but the vision of air forces don't seem to follow this logic. I also find the actual need for using helmet to direct short range missiles to be weird, when you have a system like das why can't sensors automatically recognize and track the target for instance?

 

[Radko]

I also wish they focused on reducing the actual job pilot does to fly the plane so the sole pilot can focus on mission systems rather than trying to maneuver but the vision of air forces don't seem to follow this logic. I also find the actual need for using helmet to direct short range missiles to be weird, when you have a system like das why can't sensors automatically recognize and track the target for instance?

they do track them, you dont always have to look to the target

 

[what]

That is US Air Force's one of the proposed CCA (collaborative combat aircraft) concept. You can get an idea how MUM-T may look like.

Nice concept, modularity is a trend among many defence developments. Hope our people at TAI and Baykar have that in mind too.

 

[Afif]

Nice concept, modularity is a trend among many defence developments. Hope our people at TAI and Baykar have that in mind too.

Yes, i think this is an important strategy decision to prevail in tomorrow's Warfighting. The reason modularity has started to become critical, is because it allows for mass production at a scale for a cost that were not possible otherwise.

Up until now western air forces (and armed force in general) were kind of operating on the assumption that, if you pack so much technology into a single platform it will be highly survivable and won’t face attrition due to its qualitative edge. But this notion has came more and more under Challenge. It is increasingly clear that Technology cannot replace the mass.

Now even USAF has started to recognise, given the trends in technology development, in next 10-15 years in a full scale peer to peer conflict it could loose its highly touted 5th JSF at an unacceptable rate. Thus, the strategy is to layer its expensive 5th and 6th gen assets with (relatively) cheaply mass produced UAV/UCAVs not only to be a force multiplier, but also to be expandable and take on the attrition.

 

[Sanchez]

That is US Air Force's one of the proposed CCA (collaborative combat aircraft) concept. You can get an idea how MUM-T may look like.

Yes, i think this is an important strategy decision to prevail in tomorrow's Warfighting. The reason modularity has started to become critical, is because it allows for mass production at a scale for a cost that were not possible otherwise.

Up until now western air forces (and armed force in general) were kind of operating on the assumption that, if you pack so much technology into a single platform it will be highly survivable and won’t face attrition due to its qualitative edge. But this notion has come more and more under Challenge. It is increasingly clear that Technology cannot replace the mass.

Now even USAF has started to recognise, given the trends in technology development, in next 10-15 years in a full scale peer to peer conflict it could loose its highly touted 5th JSF at an unacceptable rate. Thus, the strategy is to layer its expensive 5th and 6th gen assets with (relatively) cheaply mass produced UAV/UCAVs not only to be a force multiplier, but also to be expandable and take on the attrition.

I'm going to tattoo A T T R I T A B I L I T Y on my arm. Ukraine's invasion showed us. Tech alone doesn't cut it. If we are to have wars in this century, our cutting edge weapons need to be cheap. If an advanced Kızılelma costs 50 million apiece, it's not very different than losing an F-16 in war.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I'm going to tattoo A T T R I T A B I L I T Y on my arm. Ukraine's invasion showed us. Tech alone doesn't cut it. If we are to have wars in this century, our cutting edge weapons need to be cheap. If an advanced Kızılelma costs 50 million apiece, it's not very different than losing an F-16 in war.

Don’t forget to add the price of the pilot in the case of F16. That is if you can put a price on our pilots.

However I fully agree with you in terms of using easily expendable weapons.
Good examples are:
-MAM-L
-Artillery rockets like TR230 and 122 turned in to precision strike missiles in the form of IHA230 and 122
-Dumb bombs like MK series, turned in to precision guided smart bombs of HGK and KGK

 

[Sanchez]

Don’t forget to add the price of the pilot in the case of F16. That is if you can put a price on our pilots.

However I fully agree with you in terms of using easily expendable weapons.
Good examples are:
-MAM-L
-Artillery rockets like TR230 and 122 turned in to precision strike missiles in the form of IHA230 and 122
-Dumb bombs like MK series, turned in to precision guided smart bombs of HGK and KGK

In a war scenario where we lose 100-500 men a day, we are bound to lose some pilots as well, that's why we have CSAR birds. It's not about the inherent value of the human life, plain and simple, they will die.